Denmark bans face veil: Incompatible with Danish values

[StLucieBengal]

https://www.rt.com/news/418064-danmark-face-veil-ban-fines/

Denmark follows the trend in Europe to ban the veil.

Quote:Incompatible with Danish values’: Denmark plans face veil ban with hefty fines for offenders

Published time: 7 Feb, 2018 00:26
Fayaz Aziz
Fayaz AzizReuters
Denmark’s government has announced it plans to fine people for covering their face in public, while the left-wing opposition wants a cap on ‘non-Western foreigners’ entering the country.
The center-right government announced on Tuesday that it plans to bring forth legislation making it illegal for people to cover their faces in public. The proposals include fines of up to 10,000 Danish kroner ($1,660) for repeat offenders, Reuters reports.

The move echoes other European nations, such as France, which restricts the wearing of Muslim garments like the burqa and the niqab. Opponents say the wearing of such clothing is oppressive to women and/or incompatible with so-called ‘Western values.’

“It is incompatible with the values ​​of the Danish society or the respect for the community to keep the face hidden when meeting each other in the public space,” Justice Minister, and Danish Conservative Party leader, Soren Pape Poulsen said.

“With a ban, we draw a line in the sand and establish that here in Denmark we show each other trust and respect by meeting each other face to face,” he added.

The proposed ban is backed by parties from across the political spectrum, including the far-right Danish People’s Party (DPP/Dansk Folkeparti), and the country’s largest opposition party, the centre-left Social Democrats (Socialdemokratiet).

The latter has also announced plans designed to slash the number of “non-Western” foreigners entering Denmark. “We want to introduce a cap on the number of non-Western foreigners who can come to Denmark,” AFP quotes Social Democrats leader Mette Frederiksen as saying.

“We want to reform our asylum system, among other things, by setting up reception centres outside Europe, and in the future it will not be possible for refugees to obtain asylum in Denmark outside quotas set by the United Nations,” she added.

Two other leftist parties, the socialist Red-Green Alliance and the Danish Social Liberal party, rejected the proposals calling them “unrealistic.’

Responding to criticism the Social Democrats wrote on Twitter: “Several have called our proposals unrealistic. We do not claim it is easy. But it is certainly not impossible.”

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[Johnny Cupcakes]

Totally gonna share this one with some friends.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-07-2018, 06:07 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Totally gonna share this one with some friends.

Haha..... just noticed I got that last part. Hilarious

[Johnny Cupcakes]

So, what's your take on this? Is this something that you're excited about? What do you think is good about it? Would you hope that the United States follows up with something like this?

[StLucieBengal]

(02-07-2018, 06:14 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: So, what's your take on this? Is this something that you're excited about? What do you think is good about it? Would you hope that the United States follows up with something like this?

Yes I would. But it has zero to do with religion. We are an open face society in the west and there is no reason to not be able to see everyone’s face. They can still dress conservatively to maintain their appearance.

It’s about societal standards and no one should be compelled to dress like a ghost. When we visit a Muslim country my wife wears a veil and when they are in the West they don’t cover their face.

[hollodero]

(02-07-2018, 09:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: We are an open face society 

And there I thought you were a free society.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-07-2018, 09:57 PM)hollodero Wrote: And there I thought you were a free society.

Sure, we are.  If someone walks around town in a small town wearing a mask, everyone is like "awe, ain't that cute?  It's the village idiot.".

If you try that same stuff in a metro area?  You're going to attract a ton of negative attention, pretty quickly. Most likely from men wearing uniforms and badges...

[hollodero]

(02-07-2018, 10:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, we are.  If someone walks around town in a small town wearing a mask, everyone is like "awe, ain't that cute?  It's the village idiot.".

If you try that same stuff in a metro area?  You're going to attract a ton of negative attention, pretty quickly.  Most likely from men wearing uniforms and badges...

Well, in an "open face society" as defined a person gets charged either way. I don't know, I do think it's quite a stretch to believe in personal freedom and at the same time be in favor of restrictions on how people can dress publicly.

Then again, that's a tough one for sure. I hate Burqas.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-07-2018, 10:11 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, in an "open face society" as defined a person gets charged either way. I don't know, I do think it's quite a stretch to believe in personal freedom and at the same time be in favor of restrictions on how people can dress publicly.

Then again, that's a tough one for sure. I hate Burqas.

As for the Burqas, I find them creepy.  In my limited encounters with Muslim folk in America, when I was a tile setter, working in customers' homes;  The ones that I had dealings with dressed completely Western in the home, when exiting the home, the Women would put on the robe and cover their hair, similar to a Catholic Nun.  However, their faces were visible.

[fredtoast]

No woman should be forced to wear a veil or burqua.

But at the same time there should never be a law against it. It is the total opposit of the freedom our country stands for.

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2018, 09:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:   We are an open face society in the west and there is no reason to not be able to see everyone’s face.

There is also no reason to force a person to show his face.

What about sunglasses and a full beard.  Should that be against the law?

What if a woman has long hair that she wears falling over her face?  Should that be against the law?

What if it is just the person religious belief?  Should that not be respected?

[SunsetBengal]

(02-07-2018, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is also no reason to force a person to show his face.

What about sunglasses and a full beard.  Should that be against the law?

What if a woman has long hair that she wears falling over her face?  Should that be against the law?

What if it is just the person religious belief?  Should that not be respected?

Well, if that person happens to be Christian, that is kind of an iffy topic in recent years.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-07-2018, 11:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No woman should be forced to wear a veil or burqua.

But at the same time there should never be a law against it.  It is the total opposit of the freedom our country stands for.

The women are forced to wear them.  I know, you'll claim it's a choice, just like it's a choice for a battered woman to remain with her husband.  When you're raised in a culture that demands female subjugation, counts women as less than men, forces women to obey their husband, punishes dissension with ostracism at best, physical punishment to death at worst and teaches that failure to follow these rules means eternal damnation, choosing the not follow these rules isn't really a choice.  You're quite the feminist though, well done!

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2018, 11:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, if that person happens to be Christian, that is kind of an iffy topic in recent years.

No it isn't.  Christians are allowed to wear crosses, or WWJD bracelets, or religious themed t-shirts, or whatever they want.  

There have been no laws against what Christians can wear in public.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-07-2018, 11:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it isn't.  Christians are allowed to wear crosses, or WWJD bracelets, or religious themed t-shirts, or whatever they want.  

There have been no laws against what Christians can wear in public.

But it's fine to force Christian business owners to participate as service providers to ceremonies that their religion is opposed to?  

Sure, I get your logic. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

I have to give the Hasidim this, at least the horribly uncomfortable clothing is a shared concept between men and women.  I've seen the guys walking to temple in this exact outfit in 100 degree weather.  The women were five steps behind them, but at least their clothing was equally restrictive!

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2018, 11:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The women are forced to wear them.  I know, you'll claim it's a choice, just like it's a choice for a battered woman to remain with her husband.  When you're raised in a culture that demands female subjugation, counts women as less than men, forces women to obey their husband, punishes dissension with ostracism at best, physical punishment to death at worst and teaches that failure to follow these rules means eternal damnation, choosing the not follow these rules isn't really a choice.  You're quite the feminist though, well done!

Wow, another non-Muslim man who knows more about what Muslim women think than a Muslim woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/28/hijab-society-women-religious-political

Maybe you should propose a law that makes it illegal for Muslim women to make their own decisions since they are unable to think for themselves.

[Benton]

(02-07-2018, 10:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, we are.  If someone walks around town in a small town wearing a mask, everyone is like "awe, ain't that cute?  It's the village idiot.".

If you try that same stuff in a metro area?  You're going to attract a ton of negative attention, pretty quickly.  Most likely from men wearing uniforms and badges...

Many towns have passed ordinances against wearing masks by adults with the exception of Halloween and weather wear. It's a way to prevent Klan marches without directly impacting their free speech.

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2018, 11:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: But it's fine to force Christian business owners to participate as service providers to ceremonies that their religion is opposed to?  

Sure, I get your logic. 

No you don't get my logic at all.

In the United States we allow freedom of worship, but we do not allow discrimination based on religious beliefs.  If that offends you then go start a movement to repeal the Civil Rights Act.

I certainly get YOUR logic, and it makes me sad.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-07-2018, 11:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow, another non-Muslim man who knows more about what Muslim women think than a Muslim woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/28/hijab-society-women-religious-political

Maybe you should propose a law that makes it illegal for Muslim women to make their own decisions since they are unable to think for themselves.

Sure, and I can find a woman whose husband routinely beats her who will tell you what a great husband and father the guy is.  You should know this, you've defended numerous wife beaters throughout your career I'm sure.  You're quite the feminist, great job!