Despite the detractors, Trump doing well

[hollodero]

(07-02-2018, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A lot of folks like to ***** and moan about the current administration. I ask anyone in this forum to explain how their personal life or financial status has been made worse by the current administration. 

Mine wasn't made worse (ok I don't even live here), but I do not think that's the right question to ask. First, there are other people than me. So for example, an admin taking away kids - and allegedly promising to give them back if the parents just promise to leave and not seek asylum - is something I consider bad and worthy of rejection, even though it doesn't touch my dinner. 
Also, adding trillions to the debt for a tax cut that will add 99% of its benefits to the top 5% in 2027 (says the CBO) is a policy that won't hurt too man people now, but probably many of these people's children.
Similar things go for denying climate change or rolling back environmental protections. Will that hurt many right now this very second, probably not. But the environment gets more and more destroyed and future generations pay the price.

Also, I think it's still a decent thing to reject hateful rhetorics and to critizice any lies. The notion that people should stop doing so just because the lies and attacks have turned into a daily routine is quite strange to me.

[*bfine32*]

Folks are trying but no one has shown how their life is worse. Sure illegal immigrants are being separated from the children they have brought over here illegally, folks don't like his rhetoric, or the color of his skin, But I've asked and still waiting for: how your life is worse. If you were to read some of the constant bitching you would think America is going through 2008 type recession, instead of historic growth.

[hollodero]

(07-02-2018, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: or the color of his skin

...really?

(07-02-2018, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: or the color of his skin, But I've asked and still waiting for: how your life is worse.

Sorry that my answer wasn't good enough.

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 06:24 PM)hollodero Wrote: ...really?


Sorry that my answer wasn't good enough.

Really. Lot's of folks have commented on the color of Trump's skin.

Your answer was addressed. The best folks can come up with is look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children. I simply live by a different standard, One that puts citizens and those trying to immigrate legally above illegal immigrants, just provide me with the culture to succeed, and maybe, just maybe it is the responsibility of me and my children to prepare them for the future.

When all folks can do is point to things that may happen and things happening to those crossing into our sovereign country illegally, then yes: Those answers aren't good enough to warrant all this hate.  

[hollodero]

(07-02-2018, 07:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Your answer was addressed. The best folks can come up with is look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children.

I'm sorry, but that is really not what I said, except the first one (and really, just look at what he's doing). To translate my concerns into an "I haven't gotten anything free" sort of stance is a bit insulting. OK, I'm over it. But still, not fair.

(07-02-2018, 07:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I simply live by a different standard, One that puts citizens and those trying to immigrate legally above illegal immigrants, just provide me with the culture to succeed, and maybe, just maybe it is the responsibility of me and my children to prepare them for the future.

What gives you the idea these aren't my standards as well?

But yes, regarding my children I also see it as my responsibility to make sure they still find a livable planet and a reasonable economic environment so they can thrive and lead a happy life. I guess for many that's a huge reason for caring about politics. I'd like to leave them a functioning government not swimming in debt, I also want them to be healthy on a planet that doesn't pollute our air, soil and water and deals with climate change in time. (Sure, I also want to give them cheaper education and some things like that, but that's not the point.) The solution to pollution really is not "prepare the children for the future", it's about giving them a future.

Also, putting citizens over immigrants does not mean taking away children just for giving them a scare. Or being fine with it. I'm not advocating giving immigrants any goods (I would, but I didn't), I'm advocating against the state taking children away from people. And if they really told asylum seekers that they can get their child back if they never apply, that is shitty. Isn't it? How does that prove my standards are any different than the perfectly reasonable ones you see as your "different" standard?
You have different answers, that's all. Which is fine, but don't drag my standards into it.

(07-02-2018, 07:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When all folks can do is point to things that may happen and things happening to those crossing into our sovereign country illegally, then yes: Those answers aren't good enough to warrant all this hate.  

But... that's not "all folks can do", and it's not nearly all the reasons why people, if you will, hate Trump. There's dozens more, starting with his lack of basic decency. I mean, that's not totally unfair to say, is it? It doesn't immediately make my life worse, but it might make society worse, and I also don't like it. There's also undermining an investigation, there's constant deliberate misinformation and utter lies, and I still do have a problem with that, even if it doesn't affect me personally in that very moment. Which just shows that this is a moot category to begin with - unless you want to make the case that Trump doesn't lie and misinform constantly or that I have no right to be critical of that because many people's lifes haven't gotten worse over it.
And yeah, there are dozens more. [insert dozens of things]

I understand one might look at these things differently, but dismissing other views as TDS or something like that is something else. It's not fair.
As soon as there's evident exaggeration, the critizism turns unfair, I'd agree with you and have, like in the "Trump called all immigrants animals" debate. But most of the anti-Trump points do not fall into that "petty/false" category.

[BmorePat87]

(07-02-2018, 07:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Really. Lot's of folks have commented on the color of Trump's skin.

Your answer was addressed. The best folks can come up with is look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children. I simply live by a different standard, One that puts citizens and those trying to immigrate legally above illegal immigrants, just provide me with the culture to succeed, and maybe, just maybe it is the responsibility of me and my children to prepare them for the future.

When all folks can do is point to things that may happen and things happening to those crossing into our sovereign country illegally, then yes: Those answers aren't good enough to warrant all this hate.  

If you're only accepting criticism of policy that affects posters here and are rejecting criticism of policy that affects others, you're going to run into a few problems. The first being that you need to understand that some of us care about more than ourselves when promoting government policy. The second is that we're mostly straight middle class white guys aged 30-60. We're more likely to benefit from most of the proposed and enacted policies. 

I'm concerned with access to healthcare for those who are not as fortunate as I am.

I'm concerned with the ability of my students to access quality after before and school programs. 

I am concerned with infants and toddlers being separated from their parents, even if their parents are coming into this country illegally. 

I'm concerned with the dismantling of the federal bureaucracy and the effects that will have the the years to come.

I'm concerned with whether or not the DOJ would defend my father or brother if their rights were violated.

I'm concerned with journalist being described as "enemies of the people" by our Commander in Chief, especially after 5 were gunned down minutes from where I live by a man who grew up in my hometown. 

I'm concerned that our current economic policies will lead to a recession, undoing the recovery achieved by the last administration and inherited by the current.

But I guess I shouldn't really care since nothing bad has happened to me personally. 

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks are trying but no one has shown how their life is worse.

Really? My family and I have taken a financial hit due to Trump's economic policies as passed by the GOP and celebrated repeatedly by him.  I posted that right after you asked for an answer.

(07-02-2018, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure illegal immigrants are being separated from the children they have brought over here illegally, folks don't like his rhetoric, or the color of his skin, But I've asked and still waiting for: how your life is worse. If you were to read some of the constant bitching you would think America is going through 2008 type recession, instead of historic growth.

So you wanted to ***** and moan about what people say about Trump (and any reality about the economy) and just ignore anything that directly answered your question.



You ARE funny!

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 02:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I just imagined a tractor shaped like a penis, for some reason.

You might want to look into that “some reason”

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 08:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you're only accepting criticism of policy that affects posters here and are rejecting criticism of policy that affects others, you're going to run into a few problems. The first being that you need to understand that some of us care about more than ourselves when promoting government policy. The second is that we're mostly straight middle class white guys aged 30-60. We're more likely to benefit from most of the proposed and enacted policies. 

I'm concerned with access to healthcare for those who are not as fortunate as I am.

I'm concerned with the ability of my students to access quality after before and school programs. 

I am concerned with infants and toddlers being separated from their parents, even if their parents are coming into this country illegally. 

I'm concerned with the dismantling of the federal bureaucracy and the effects that will have the the years to come.

I'm concerned with whether or not the DOJ would defend my father or brother if their rights were violated.

I'm concerned with journalist being described as "enemies of the people" by our Commander in Chief, especially after 5 were gunned down minutes from where I live by a man who grew up in my hometown. 

I'm concerned that our current economic policies will lead to a recession, undoing the recovery achieved by the last administration and inherited by the current.

But I guess I shouldn't really care since nothing bad has happened to me personally. 

Bingo.  I thought he really was curious and we open to how Trump's policies affect people.

[Belsnickel]

(07-02-2018, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks are trying but no one has shown how their life is worse. Sure illegal immigrants are being separated from the children they have brought over here illegally, folks don't like his rhetoric, or the color of his skin, But I've asked and still waiting for: how your life is worse. If you were to read some of the constant bitching you would think America is going through 2008 type recession, instead of historic growth.

Historic growth? The rate of economic growth since he took office has definitely not been that. If you're going to make a stand about hyperbolic concerns, you might want to check your own statements, first.

[*michaelsean*]

So do we consider people who get government benefits voting for people who promise more government benefits to be me me me people?

[Belsnickel]

(07-02-2018, 08:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So do we consider people who get government benefits voting for people who promise more government benefits to be me me me people?

At this point, who is promising more government benefits?

Right now, the biggest promise of increased benefits is the "Medicare for all" crowd. Since this moves the program away from one that is more means tested and into a universal benefit, it is more of a common good move than anything else. An individual's motivation for their position, though, is hard to determine.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 08:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: At this point, who is promising more government benefits?

Right now, the biggest promise of increased benefits is the "Medicare for all" crowd. Since this moves the program away from one that is more means tested and into a universal benefit, it is more of a common good move than anything else. An individual's motivation for their position, though, is hard to determine.

Poorly phrased. More relative to who they are running against. People promise things in elections. One person will cut; one person will increase.

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 08:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you're only accepting criticism of policy that affects posters here and are rejecting criticism of policy that affects others, you're going to run into a few problems. The first being that you need to understand that some of us care about more than ourselves when promoting government policy. The second is that we're mostly straight middle class white guys aged 30-60. We're more likely to benefit from most of the proposed and enacted policies. 

I'm concerned with access to healthcare for those who are not as fortunate as I am.

I'm concerned with the ability of my students to access quality after before and school programs. 

I am concerned with infants and toddlers being separated from their parents, even if their parents are coming into this country illegally. 

I'm concerned with the dismantling of the federal bureaucracy and the effects that will have the the years to come.

I'm concerned with whether or not the DOJ would defend my father or brother if their rights were violated.

I'm concerned with journalist being described as "enemies of the people" by our Commander in Chief, especially after 5 were gunned down minutes from where I live by a man who grew up in my hometown. 

I'm concerned that our current economic policies will lead to a recession, undoing the recovery achieved by the last administration and inherited by the current.

But I guess I shouldn't really care since nothing bad has happened to me personally. 

Who said you shouldn't be concerned, I asked a question which no one, including you, have answered.

You did point to the dislike of the rhetoric. 

It's quite the intellectual dishonesty to try to associate those tragically killed with anything Trump has said; as that dude was wishing for members of that paper to "cease breathing" long before POTUS Trump. it really is insulting to the memory of those that lost their lives. 

It's not about "personal" it's about the common interest over the special interest. 

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 08:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who said you shouldn't be concerned, I asked a question which no one, including you, have answered.

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 08:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Historic growth? The rate of economic growth since he took office has definitely not been that. If you're going to make a stand about hyperbolic concerns, you might want to check your own statements, first.

We have the lowest unemployment rate since 1969, our GDP is growing, our trade deficit is falling. These and other factors lead Macro economists to forecast historic growth, But yeah most likely hyberbolic, So let's just go with the economy is in good shape. OK?

[BmorePat87]

(07-02-2018, 08:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who said you shouldn't be concerned, I asked a question which no one, including you, have answered.

You did point to the dislike of the rhetoric. 

It's quite the intellectual dishonesty to try to associate those tragically killed with anything Trump has said; as that dude was wishing for members of that paper to "cease breathing" long before POTUS Trump. it really is insulting to the memory of those that lost their lives. 

It's not about "personal" it's about the common interest over the special interest. 

I did answer it. I said that nothing bad has happened to me personally.

I don't know if it is really insulting to mention his atrocious un-American comments when the people who knew the victims best made reference to the same comments, but I'm sure you knew them better than the people who watched them die. 

Intellectual dishonesty is suggesting that in the 525 days or so that he has been in office, the only criticism presented about him has been  "look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children".

[Belsnickel]

(07-02-2018, 08:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We have the lowest unemployment rate since 1969, our GDP is growing, our trade deficit is falling. These and other factors lead Macro economists to forecast historic growth, But yeah most likely hyberbolic, So let's just go with the economy is in good shape. OK?

One, the POTUS has very little to do with the overall economic cycles. Two, this is a trend that has continued and, if anything, has slowed down slightly when you look at the trend. So if we wan tto lay blame or credit at the feet of the POTUS for the economy, then Trump has succeeded in not ***** it up. That's it.

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 08:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I did answer it. I said that nothing bad has happened to me personally.

I don't know if it is really insulting to mention his atrocious un-American comments when the people who knew the victims best made reference to the same comments, but I'm sure you knew them better than the people who watched them die. 

Intellectual dishonesty is suggesting that in the 525 days or so that he has been in office, the only criticism presented about him has been  "look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children".

1. Well that's a good thing. 

2. I'm sure the folks that "knew them best" are very emotional and will express their sadness in venting and anger. However, if I were to provide counsel to them I'd tell them not to look for a false villain; no matter how many folks on the left attempt to use this tragedy for their  political agenda. 

3. It was not intellectual dishonesty, it was what had been presented to that point. Then you chimed in with more "this could happen". 

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 08:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: One, the POTUS has very little to do with the overall economic cycles. Two, this is a trend that has continued and, if anything, has slowed down slightly when you look at the trend. So if we wan tto lay blame or credit at the feet of the POTUS for the economy, then Trump has succeeded in not ***** it up. That's it.

Like I said: What is there to ***** about?