Despite the detractors, Trump doing well

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 09:26 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The thing is there is zero connection here. There have been NFL players murdered. Trump has spoken out against NFL players. That doesn’t mean he has anything to with it if another NFL player is murdered outside a club.  And the fact that it happens isn’t some sort of foreboding of what is to come. This guy was doing this no matter who was president.  Just like has happened in work places too many times before.

While, for the millionth time, Trump is not responsible for what this one guy did that does not detract from his rhetoric.

How many NFL players have been killed since the POTUS called them SOB's?

How many times has he referred to EVERYONE in the media (except FOX NEWS, of course) as "enemies".

Your example isn't good.

But even that doesn't matter.  

The fact that the POTUS says these things so often that it is even a THOUGHT that people can have is the problem.

Think about any tragedy during your lifetime.  How often was your first of second thought: "OMG....could this be a guy inspired by the daily rantings of the POTUS?"

Have you ever thought that?

It doesn't matter that he didn't cause this tragedy.  It matters that we even had to SAY he didn't.

[hollodero]

(07-02-2018, 09:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is another example of intellectual dishonesty. Hell, in this thread alone, more criticism than that was presented. 

He chooses Putin's words over US institutions, perpetuates a worldview where everyone against him is part of a "deep state", calls the media the enemy of the people, offends world leaders, promised health care for all for a fraction of the cost and then promoted repeal and no replace or letting it crash, he separates children from their parents, prevents a DACA fix, wants to build a wall, slams shops that don't sell daughter stuff, pardoned Joe Arpaio, supported an alleged abuser of adolescent girls, called Obama a sick guy based on nothing, allowed a misleading memo to be released, told secrets to Lawrow, fired Comey because of Trump and Russia, goes after Mueller, added trillions to the national debt for benefits designed for the top 5% only, called climate change a Chinese hoax and left the Paris accord, reacted awfully to Charlottesville, behaves in an utterly sexist way, including several allegiations of molestation, him walking into girls' locker rooms, telling folks to check out nonexistent sex tapes and accusing women of bleeding, failed in aiding Puerto Rico after the hurricane, talked shit in front of boy scouts, parrots FOX and talks to Sean Hannity every night, didn't show his tax returns, avocated beating up people, made up bogus claims about illegals voting, mentions Hillary and his epic win every other second, sometimes stutters sentences that are undecipherable and is misinformed or blatantly lies constantly. Then there's Kushner and Russia, and Flynn, Manafort, Gates and all these witches.

--- There's plenty of reason to ***** about. Nothing of it is "look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children".

[*Nately120*]

(07-02-2018, 09:26 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The thing is there is zero connection here. There have been NFL players murdered. Trump has spoken out against NFL players. That doesn’t mean he has anything to with it if another NFL player is murdered outside a club.  And the fact that it happens isn’t some sort of foreboding of what is to come. This guy was doing this no matter who was president.  Just like has happened in work places too many times before.

Legally, I'd vote not guilty on Trump's part on this one, but as far as being sure Trump's words have no bearing on this man's life and actions...not so sure.  Remember, we're talking about a country where someone went into a specific pizza place and discharged a firearm because someone important told him the people there were doing bad things.  That guy wasn't going to go into a pizza place shooting, regardless of what the media told him.

Things like this don't make someone do things, granted, but stuff like this influences people.  It's the endless debate on whether violence in the media/moves/games and porn and so on are going to make us all into monsters or not.  I think people should legally be allowed to do and say whatever they like and that no one should be held responsible for what crazy people do in response.  With that being said, I'm not going to send a bunch of pro-rape erotic fiction to the guy dating my daughter, either.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 09:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: While, for the millionth time, Trump is not responsible for what this one guy did that does not detract from his rhetoric.

How many NFL players have been killed since the POTUS called them SOB's?

How many times has he referred to EVERYONE in the media (except FOX NEWS, of course) as "enemies".

Your example isn't good.

But even that doesn't matter.  

The fact that the POTUS says these things so often that it is even a THOUGHT that people can have is the problem.

Think about any tragedy during your lifetime.  How often was your first of second thought: "OMG....could this be a guy inspired by the daily rantings of the POTUS?"

Have you ever thought that?

It doesn't matter that he didn't cause this tragedy.  It matters that we even had to SAY he didn't.

And I have no problem ridiculing him for the asinine things he says. That doesn’t make this some sort of lesson to be learned. I didn’t for a second think it had anything to do with POTUS because the odds are astronomically low.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 09:34 PM)hollodero Wrote: He chooses Putin's words over US institutions, perpetuates a worldview where everyone against him is part of a "deep state", calls the media the enemy of the people, offends world leaders, promised health care for all for a fraction of the cost and then promoted repeal and no replace or letting it crash, he separates children from their parents, prevents a DACA fix, wants to build a wall, slams shops that don't sell daughter stuff, pardoned Joe Arpaio, supported an alleged abuser of adolescent girls, called Obama a sick guy based on nothing, allowed a misleading memo to be released, told secrets to Lawrow, fired Comey because of Trump and Russia, goes after Mueller, added trillions to the national debt for benefits designed for the top 5% only, called climate change a Chinese hoax and left the Paris accord, reacted awfully to Charlottesville, behaves in an utterly sexist way, including several allegiations of molestation, him walking into girls' locker rooms, telling folks to check out nonexistent sex tapes and accusing women of bleeding, failed in aiding Puerto Rico after the hurricane, talked shit in front of boy scouts, parrots FOX and talks to Sean Hannity every night, didn't show his tax returns, avocated beating up people, made up bogus claims about illegals voting, mentions Hillary and his epic win every other second, sometimes stutters sentences that are undecipherable and is misinformed or blatantly lies constantly. Then there's Kushner and Russia, and Flynn, Manafort, Gates and all these witches.

--- There's plenty of reason to ***** about. Nothing of it is "look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children".

Taking Russia’s word over CIA and FBI is kind of a traditionally liberal thing. I find their new found trust in these institutions refreshing.(For some reasons I can’t do emojis from my phone and that one is the only one I have memorized or else it would be a ninja)

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 09:34 PM)hollodero Wrote: He chooses Putin's words over US institutions, perpetuates a worldview where everyone against him is part of a "deep state", calls the media the enemy of the people, offends world leaders, promised health care for all for a fraction of the cost and then promoted repeal and no replace or letting it crash, he separates children from their parents, prevents a DACA fix, wants to build a wall, slams shops that don't sell daughter stuff, pardoned Joe Arpaio, supported an alleged abuser of adolescent girls, called Obama a sick guy based on nothing, allowed a misleading memo to be released, told secrets to Lawrow, fired Comey because of Trump and Russia, goes after Mueller, added trillions to the national debt for benefits designed for the top 5% only, called climate change a Chinese hoax and left the Paris accord, reacted awfully to Charlottesville, behaves in an utterly sexist way, including several allegiations of molestation, him walking into girls' locker rooms, telling folks to check out nonexistent sex tapes and accusing women of bleeding, failed in aiding Puerto Rico after the hurricane, talked shit in front of boy scouts, parrots FOX and talks to Sean Hannity every night, didn't show his tax returns, avocated beating up people, made up bogus claims about illegals voting, mentions Hillary and his epic win every other second, sometimes stutters sentences that are undecipherable and is misinformed or blatantly lies constantly. Then there's Kushner and Russia, and Flynn, Manafort, Gates and all these witches.

--- There's plenty of reason to ***** about. Nothing of it is "look what he's doing to folks that come here illegally, I haven't gotten anything free, or how will the government take care of my children".

Of course the question that was asked was: What has effected you directly? 

The "you" referred to citizens of the country he was elected to serve. I concede that many folks don't like his rhetoric (much of it embellished by the receiver), but many do. He's also left some global treaties, but he willingly said that he is going to be President of the United States, not President of the World. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-02-2018, 09:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And I have no problem ridiculing him for the asinine things he says. That doesn’t make this some sort of lesson to be learned.  I didn’t for a second think it had anything to do with POTUS because the odds are astronomically low.

I'm no statistician, but while we can say it is astronomically low that this guy used Trump's "enemy of the people" label as motivation, when you realize a whole lot of people heard Trump say that it is plausible that an astronomically low thing can happen.  

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 09:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course the question that was asked was: What has effected you directly? 

The "you" referred to citizens of the country he was elected to serve. I concede that many folks don't like his rhetoric (much of it embellished by the receiver), but many do. He's also left some global treaties, but he willingly said that he is going to be President of the United States, not President of the World. 

AFFECTED you right wing dolt!

[NATI BENGALS]

Praising dictators. Detaining children. Alienating allies. Jacking up the deficit. High gas prices. Declining working class pay. Indictments. Rising cost of living. Poisonous political climate. Most divided country in my lifetime. And a leader demanding loyalty.


But hey... We got a taxcut for the rich.

I havent liked clowns since i found out what they are. So having one running my country from twitter is a little sad. And it is daily i have to see an orange turd being choked out by his coller with a haircut so shitty a hipster wouldnt try it.

Shit is embarassing

[*bfine32*]

I ask folks to do one thing:

Look at the subject of the thread, look at the responses, and ask yourself: Am I being open-minded. Do not reply, just look in the mirror and answer.

[hollodero]

(07-02-2018, 09:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course the question that was asked was: What has effected you directly? 

I answered that already. Nothing directly has, as of now. I'm afraid some might in the future though, see CC as the most obvious example.

I also think that's not an appropriate criterion. Even if things don't affect me directly, I can still be critical of them. I really don't get why you seem to see that differently.
(Just as an example, it doesn't affect me directly if anyone molests women, but I'd still rather have a leader figure who does not, for I'm against that in principle.)

(07-02-2018, 09:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The "you" referred to citizens of the country he was elected to serve. I concede that many folks don't like his rhetoric (much of it embellished by the receiver), but many do.

But the fact that many do isn't a good argument to stop being critical of Trump either.

(07-02-2018, 09:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He's also left some global treaties, but he willingly said that he is going to be President of the United States, not President of the World. 

Fair enough. My fears about Trump aren't that he's not the president of the world (sure he could be nicer to us, but I get your point and leave that out), it's rather that I think the current track of the US will harm all of the "free world", directly or indirectly (for example by making populism and what I percieve as being the loss of values like humanity, truth or democracy more popular in other countries like mine, thus following a path I am scared about).
Also, I'm really gonna miss the US I grew to really like in the past. Some core reasons for that are severely affected. I get that an US citizen doesn't need to care about that rather tiny specific concern of mine, but I sure can ***** about it. As long as it's not unfair or exaggerated.

[Dill]

(07-02-2018, 09:59 PM)hollodero Wrote: Fair enough. My fears about Trump aren't that he's not the president of the world (sure he could be nicer to us, but I get your point and leave that out), it's rather that I think the current track of the US will harm all of the "free world", directly or indirectly (for example by making populism and what I percieve as being the loss of values like humanity, truth or democracy more popular in other countries like mine, thus following a path I am scared about).

Trump hasn't harmed your values TODAY though, right?  

Don't see how the leader of the world's most powerful economy and military could do that much damage just by lying, ripping up treaties, and ignoring the public good.

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 09:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I ask folks to do one thing:

Look at the subject of the thread, look at the responses, and ask yourself: Am I being open-minded. Do not reply, just look in the mirror and answer.

I only ask that people see that *I* am the reasonable one and not respond if they feel different.

And the oracle has spoken.

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 09:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And I have no problem ridiculing him for the asinine things he says. That doesn’t make this some sort of lesson to be learned.  I didn’t for a second think it had anything to do with POTUS because the odds are astronomically low.

Not for a second, huh?

Never crossed your mind?

I'm willing to bet even his supporters (like the ones on this board) thought it...and then rushed here to say it wasn't his fault. 

[Dill]

(07-02-2018, 09:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Taking Russia’s word over CIA and FBI is kind of a traditionally liberal thing.  I find their new found trust in these institutions refreshing.(For some reasons I can’t do emojis from my phone and that one is the only one I have memorized or else it would be a ninja)

How do you find Trump's undermining them, especially on issues of national security?

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 10:23 PM)Dill Wrote: How do you find Trump's undermining them, especially on issues of national security?

I think they've undermined themselves; as has been shown in recent reports, whose purpose was not to do so.

It's absolutely ironic that the left is standing up for agencies such as the FBI and CIA. I also understand that it is equally ironic that conservatives are pointing a finger at these institutions. As for me, my view has never changed: We don't need to look behind the curtain. 

[hollodero]

(07-02-2018, 09:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Taking Russia’s word over CIA and FBI is kind of a traditionally liberal thing.  I find their new found trust in these institutions refreshing.(For some reasons I can’t do emojis from my phone and that one is the only one I have memorized or else it would be a ninja)

Yeah... Russian influence operations were not just confirmed by every relevant institution in the US, but similar incidents were found in different countries in Europe and around the world. At this point, having trust in that particular finding is not that hard. And there's some strong evidence.

In general, I sure don't trust the CIA at all.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 10:23 PM)Dill Wrote: How do you find Trump's undermining them, especially on issues of national security?

Always a fan of these organizations no matter who is president.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 10:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: Not for a second, huh?

Never crossed your mind?

I'm willing to bet even his supporters (like the ones on this board) thought it...and then rushed here to say it wasn't his fault. 

No I’d say it if I did. It’s just these things are for the reasons they always are.

[*bfine32*]

(07-02-2018, 10:45 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No I’d say it if I did. It’s just these things are for the reasons they always are.

I'm with you. When I heard of the tragedy "It's Trump's fault" never crossed my mind until folks told me he was to blame.