Developing Players

[CanadianBengal]

You always hear that players show the greatest improvement between year one and year two. Not the Bengals.

Mixon has definitely had a better year.

I had high hopes for Lawson and Wills this year but neither showed much this year.

Hard to say Ross is any better. Still a major disappointment.

WJIII was basically a second year player and he regressed. Boyd had a terrible second year ( although based on this year could argue coaches moved away from him too early last year)

There are very few Bengal players that actually get better. Real indictment of the coaching staff.

[BengalsBong]

(12-11-2018, 12:53 AM)CanadianBengal Wrote: You always hear that players show the greatest improvement between year one and year two. Not the Bengals.

Mixon has definitely had a better year.

I had high hopes for Lawson and Wills this year but neither showed much this year.

Hard to say Ross is any better. Still a major disappointment.

WJIII was basically a second year player and he regressed. Boyd had a terrible second year ( although based on this year could argue coaches moved away from him too early last year)

There are very few Bengal players that actually get better. Real indictment of the coaching staff.

I just don't see a regression in WJIII CB get beat sometimes, his coverage has not been bad. He might need to get better in zone coverage but I do not see him getting worse.

[Nicomo Cosca]

How can you say Ross hasn’t improved? He went from 0 rec to having 6 TD in 10 games.

He’s obviously still a work in progress, but he’s certainly improving.

[XsandOs]

(12-11-2018, 01:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How can you say Ross hasn’t improved? He went from 0 rec to having 6 TD in 10 games.

He’s obviously still a work in progress, but he’s certainly improving.

Thank you.

[*psychdoctor*]

Ross has 18 receptions, 6 of which were TD's.

[grampahol]

Oh THANKS for ruining CanadianBengal's narrative of how no Bengals players ever get better with the passage of time unlike every single other team who's players ALWAYS become league super stars.. 
Couldn't you just nod in agreement and acknowledge that it's always the fault of the coaching staff for every sideways development? 

Ok, just being silly. This is a first for me . 

[*ochocincos*]

(12-11-2018, 12:53 AM)CanadianBengal Wrote: You always hear that players show the greatest improvement between year one and year two. Not the Bengals.

Mixon has definitely had a better year.

I had high hopes for Lawson and Wills this year but neither showed much this year.

Hard to say Ross is any better. Still a major disappointment.

WJIII was basically a second year player and he regressed. Boyd had a terrible second year ( although based on this year could argue coaches moved away from him too early last year)

There are very few Bengal players that actually get better. Real indictment of the coaching staff.

John Ross is tied for the team lead in touchdowns. Is that not worth anything?

[*bengalfan74*]

Overall, I couldn't agree more. The only players that excel here are the ones that would be good anywhere with little coaching.

[THE PISTONS]

I think that in general, our players don't develop here.

A guy like Gresham had great hands as a rookie...then as he played here he started dropping passes, etc.

[THE PISTONS]

re: Ross - 18 receptions and 200 yards is way underwhelming. He's been targeted 45 times.

I don't know if it's Ross. If it's how they use him. If it's the plays they call.

He's basically been our #2 WR with Green out and you'd expect more. The 6 TD's are good though. The TD's are generally short throws which shows he can get open...which is how they should use him more.

[CanadianBengal]

(12-11-2018, 01:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How can you say Ross hasn’t improved? He went from 0 rec to having 6 TD in 10 games.

He’s obviously still a work in progress, but he’s certainly improving.

Ross barely saw the field last year so it was inevitable that he would have some stats this year simply by being on the field. 

He has been a number 2 or 3 WR all year meaning he is on the field for much of the game and has 18 receptions for 200 yards. Yes the 6 TDs are good but is that really what you were hoping for from him this year? 


He's currently sitting 187th in receptions tied with his longest reception being 39 yards. To put it in perspective he has just passed 33% of the production that we got from Brandon Lafell minus the TDs.  

I don't know about you but I was hoping for a whole lot more from him. 

[higgy100]

(12-11-2018, 11:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that in general, our players don't develop here.

A guy like Gresham had great hands as a rookie...then as he played here he started dropping passes, etc.

I think guys develop to a degree but these guys are only human and you think we get pissed off and upset on a weekly basis, well, imagine these guys. Sure, they have an equity and a service due to this organization, but most of these guys have been successful their entire life in sports and to come here, here the stories, see the inadequacies first-hand, see the type of attitude that can permeate from the top can be draining.

Perfect example is the abysmal failure of this team to ever acquire a top-notch FA or even go get a nice player at a time of need like when AJ goes down. Other teams do it in pre-season and during the season and that injects positivity into a team...

[sandwedge]

(12-11-2018, 11:20 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Overall, I couldn't agree more. The only players that excel here are the ones that would be good anywhere with little coaching.

Pretty spot on!

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2018, 11:41 AM)CanadianBengal Wrote: Ross barely saw the field last year so it was inevitable that he would have some stats this year simply by being on the field. 

He has been a number 2 or 3 WR all year meaning he is on the field for much of the game and has 18 receptions for 200 yards. Yes the 6 TDs are good but is that really what you were hoping for from him this year? 


He's currently sitting 187th in receptions tied with his longest reception being 39 yards. To put it in perspective he has just passed 33% of the production that we got from Brandon Lafell minus the TDs.  

I don't know about you but I was hoping for a whole lot more from him. 

The biggest part of the problem IMHO is his total misuse. Sure send him on a couple fly routes every game and chuck it out there, lots of good things can happen from that.

But he should be used waaayy more in the short to mid range stuff than he has been. Build his confidence and allow him to make people miss and utilize his speed in YAC.

[fredtoast]

(12-11-2018, 11:20 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote:  The only players that excel here are the ones that would be good anywhere with little coaching.

That just is not true.

There have been multiple mid to late round draft picks that have developed into very goodplayers here.

There have also been players who were flops on other teams that played better when they came to the Bengals.

There have been multiple Bengals who signed large free agent contracts and then looked worse on their new team than they did with the Bengals.

And there have been almost no free agents who were flops witht he Bengals who became great players on other teams.

There is ZERO evidence at all to back up your claim

[CanadianBengal]

(12-11-2018, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That just is not true.

There have been multiple mid to late round draft picks that have developed into very goodplayers here.

There have also been players who were flops on other teams that played better when they came to the Bengals.

There have been multiple Bengals who signed large free agent contracts and then looked worse on their new team than they did with the Bengals.

And there have been almost no free agents who were flops witht he Bengals who became great players on other teams.

There is ZERO evidence at all to back up your claim

Okay Fred I'll bite 


2017 draft
John Ross - not developing
Joe Mixon - developing 
Jordan Willis - regressed in year two
Carl Lawson - regressed in year two 
Josh Malone - unknown
Glasgow - pass for injury
I didn't include the rest because few late round picks are expected to start and none of the Bengals later round picks have emerged as legit players

2016
William Jackson - still a good player but played better last year. Lots of talk in off season that he could be shut down corner
Tyler Boyd - regressed in year two. Great this year 
Nick Vigil- not developing 
Andrew Billings - not developing 
Westernman - not developing
Core - not developing
Fejedelem - developed into solid back up

2015
Cedric - not developing 
Fisher - not developing
Kroft - not developing ( third round picks should contribute more than he has )
Dawson, Shaw Hardison - no development 
Uzomeh - developed into solid back up 

2014
Dennard - developed into solid corner 
Jeremy Hill - regressed after year one
Will Clarke - never developed
Russell Bodine - never developed
AJ McCarron - never developed

Just because the draft picks are still on the team doesn't mean they should be. Either the drafts have been busts or coaches aren't helping players get better. 

Right now Mixon, WJIII, Boyd Dennard are only legit starters from last four drafts and they are all 1/2 rounders. 

I had high hopes that Willis, Lawson and Billings were going to elevate DLine to a difference maker - didn't happen

Hoped WJIII was going to play near or at pro bowl level - nope 

Ross was going to provide big plays and force Defenses to care that he was on the field - nope 

Fred the evidence is in front of your eyes every Sunday. Watch the game and then tell me the players are getting better. 

My eyes work better than your words 

[BengalFanInNJ]

(12-11-2018, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That just is not true.

There have been multiple mid to late round draft picks that have developed into very goodplayers here.

There have also been players who were flops on other teams that played better when they came to the Bengals.

There have been multiple Bengals who signed large free agent contracts and then looked worse on their new team than they did with the Bengals.

And there have been almost no free agents who were flops witht he Bengals who became great players on other teams.

There is ZERO evidence at all to back up your claim

 
I think Ahmad Brooks, Justin Smith, Evan Mathis, Alejandro Villaneuva and Rex Burkhead have found more success outside of Cincinnati. 

I'll add Paul Alexander on the coaching side who after 25 years here flopped in Dallas after only 7 weeks.

[*jason*]

(12-12-2018, 10:36 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote:  
I think Ahmad Brooks, Justin Smith, Evan Mathis, Alejandro Villaneuva and Rex Burkhead have found more success outside of Cincinnati. 

I'll add Paul Alexander on the coaching side who after 25 years here flopped in Dallas after only 7 weeks.

Russell Bodine as well.

Justin Smith wasn't a scrub in Cincinnati though.

In Fred's defense guys like Reggie Nelson and Wallace Gilberry did great when they came here. Terrence Newman had a lil mini Renaissance in Cincinnati too. Seem to remember Deltha O'Neill doing alright as well.

I don't like the current coaching staff though.

[*jason*]

What week did Lawson get hurt? We're really gonna say he regressed because he didn't replicate the stupid numbers he had last year?

[BengalChris]

(12-11-2018, 01:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How can you say Ross hasn’t improved? He went from 0 rec to having 6 TD in 10 games.

He’s obviously still a work in progress, but he’s certainly improving.

Yes, he has improved. He's no longer the 1 fumble wonder. He does have a long ways to go with his route running and catching and that is something to look forward to. I don't believe his ceiling is nearly what people thought it was though.