Did Biden verbally give out classified information/Cluster Bombs

[Luvnit2]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/07/politics/joe-biden-cluster-munitions-ukraine/index.html#:~:text=Biden%20told%20Zakaria%20that%20the,on%20it%2C%E2%80%9D%20Biden%20said.
iden told Zakaria that the cluster munitions were being sent as a “transition period” until the US is able to produce more 155mm artillery.

“This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of that ammunition, and we’re low on it,” Biden said. “And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow for this transition period, while we get more 155 weapons, these shells, for the Ukrainians.”

There are more than 100 countries, including the UK, France, and Germany, who have outlawed the munitions under the Convention on Cluster Munitions. But the US and Ukraine are not signatories to the ban.

“They’re trying to get through those trenches and stop those tanks from rolling. But it was not an easy decision,” Biden said. “We’re not signatories to that agreement, but it took me a while to be convinced to do it.”

He added, “But the main thing is they either have the weapons to stop the Russians now – keep them from stopping the Ukrainian offensive through these areas – or they don’t. And I think they needed them.”

The decision to provide cluster munitions comes at a critical point in the war, as the Ukrainians have struggled to make major gains in their counteroffensive against Russia.

I thought cluster bombs were not permitted to be used anymore????????????

[Belsnickel]

(07-10-2023, 12:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I thought cluster bombs were not permitted to be used anymore????????????

So, there is a 2009 law that prevents the use or transfer of cluster munitions with a dud rate higher than 1%. That is what prevents their use by the United States since we didn't sign the treaty. There is a provision in the law, though, where the POTUS can sign a waiver to allow for their use/transfer. So, Congress built in the workaround back in 2009.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

We use them, and Russia has been using them the entire war. The US doesn't generally care about what munitions other countries want to ban. They aren't very useful against tanks though, they're for talking out infantry and soft target vehicles.

[KillerGoose]

(07-10-2023, 12:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/07/politics/joe-biden-cluster-munitions-ukraine/index.html#:~:text=Biden%20told%20Zakaria%20that%20the,on%20it%2C%E2%80%9D%20Biden%20said.
iden told Zakaria that the cluster munitions were being sent as a “transition period” until the US is able to produce more 155mm artillery.

“This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of that ammunition, and we’re low on it,” Biden said. “And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow for this transition period, while we get more 155 weapons, these shells, for the Ukrainians.”

There are more than 100 countries, including the UK, France, and Germany, who have outlawed the munitions under the Convention on Cluster Munitions. But the US and Ukraine are not signatories to the ban.

“They’re trying to get through those trenches and stop those tanks from rolling. But it was not an easy decision,” Biden said. “We’re not signatories to that agreement, but it took me a while to be convinced to do it.”

He added, “But the main thing is they either have the weapons to stop the Russians now – keep them from stopping the Ukrainian offensive through these areas – or they don’t. And I think they needed them.”

The decision to provide cluster munitions comes at a critical point in the war, as the Ukrainians have struggled to make major gains in their counteroffensive against Russia.

I thought cluster bombs were not permitted to be used anymore????????????

Bel's response is the best answer. To answer your question, though, you are correct in that there is an international treaty called "Convention on Cluster Munitions" which outlaws the use of cluster bombs. However, this is only true for those that signed the treaty. None of the U.S., Ukraine, or Russia signed the treaty. They are free to use them as far as international law is concerned. Essentially, your post answered your own question.

[*michaelsean*]

Why do countries ban cluster bombs?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-10-2023, 02:27 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Why do countries ban cluster bombs?

Because the bomblets have a failure rate, meaning X% don't detonate.  They unexploded munitions then sit around waiting for someone to cause them to detonate.  They aren't especially large so policing all of them up after a conflict isn't as easy as finding an unexploded conventional 500 pound bomb.  As you might expect the Russian munitions have a much higher failure rate than ours.  It's the same reason many countries have banned landmines, they can cause a lot of death and injury long after the conflict has ended.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-10-2023, 02:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because the bomblets have a failure rate, meaning X% don't detonate.  They unexploded munitions then sit around waiting for someone to cause them to detonate.  They aren't especially large so policing all of them up after a conflict isn't as easy as finding an unexploded conventional 500 pound bomb.  As you might expect the Russian munitions have a much higher failure rate than ours.  It's the same reason many countries have banned landmines, they can cause a lot of death and injury long after the conflict has ended.

Got it. Thanks

[Luvnit2]

(07-10-2023, 02:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because the bomblets have a failure rate, meaning X% don't detonate.  They unexploded munitions then sit around waiting for someone to cause them to detonate.  They aren't especially large so policing all of them up after a conflict isn't as easy as finding an unexploded conventional 500 pound bomb.  As you might expect the Russian munitions have a much higher failure rate than ours.  It's the same reason many countries have banned landmines, they can cause a lot of death and injury long after the conflict has ended.

I would add the real issue is the cluster bombs can and do detonate later causing major harm to civilians.

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-10-2023, 05:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would add the real issue is the cluster bombs can and do detonate later causing major harm to civilians.

I'm pretty sure it's the first time in your life you are worried about this. It's been used in Iraq and Afghanistan for decades.

[*Nately120*]

(07-10-2023, 05:42 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I'm pretty sure it's the first time in your life you are worried about this. It's been used in Iraq and Afghanistan for decades.

I'd take it even further and say that I recall hearing old folk musicians and other politically-inclined entertainers talking decades ago about children stepping on landmines from long gone wars.  We're quite good at looking the other way on this stuff.

[Belsnickel]

(07-10-2023, 08:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd take it even further and say that I recall hearing old folk musicians and other politically-inclined entertainers talking decades ago about children stepping on landmines from long gone wars.  We're quite good at looking the other way on this stuff.

One of my gym buddies is actually this gentleman:


He is standing on two artificial legs, taken by a mine that a vehicle he was in struck. He is largely responsible for connecting Princess Diana to the issue 30+ years ago. The university I work at has a department that focuses on this stuff and actually produces an international scholarly journal on the subject, and one of my former roommates who used to work in that department has been working for a while in the State Department on the removal and abatement of weapons such as cluster munitions and landmines.

Needless to say, I hear a ton about this stuff so I always hate to see us perpetuating this legacy of terror that these weapons have caused across the world.