Do words matter?

[CageTheBengal]

What do Trump supporters say to themselves (openly support or closet supporter.) when Trump's own words are hypocritical/demeaning? I am genuinely curious. You hear a lot of deflecting about liberals, Hillary and fake news but I've never heard anybody actually defend his words when it comes to hypocrisy. There are plenty of examples from his rallies to Twitter that only Trump can take blame for in a logical world yet it doesn't matter. Are they lowering their moral standard or was it never that high to begin with?

If you or I were to speak the way Trump does in public it would effect our career/life and world in general but the same rules don't apply to him. He has demeaned pretty much every group at some point even those who voted for him and has shown he has no problem contradicting himself. I know who Trump is but what does that say about his supporters?

Quote:July 6, 2016: Then-candidate Trump tweeted, "Crooked Hillary Clinton and her team 'were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.' Not fit!"

Quote:August 16, 2016: Speaking in West Bend, Indiana, Trump said, "In my administration, I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information."

Quote:September 13, 2016: During a speech in Clive, Iowa, Trump said Hillary Clinton "put classified information in the reach of our enemies."

Quote:"Now, the poor guy — you ought to see the guy: 'Uh, I don't know what I said. I don't remember,'" Trump said, as he contorted his arms in an apparent imitation of Kovaleski, who suffers from arthrogryposis.

Quote:"He is a war hero because he was captured," Trump said. "I like people that weren't captured, OK? I hate to tell you. He is a war hero because he was captured. OK, you can have -- I believe perhaps he is a war hero."

All of these are quotes that either show Hypocrisy or flat out poor character. Once Trump and his team made a statement about "If only people could see what's in his heart." Or something like that well aren't his words/actions the only true glimpse we as people have as we cannot actually see people's thoughts and motives?

[ballsofsteel]

You can't really blame most of his supporters. I'm not talking about the right wing dingbat hypocrites politicians who said Trump was no good only to turn around and say he was great after he won. I'm talking about all supporters looking for change. Trump said all the right things campaigning that people wanted to hear. They didn't realize he was a con man who wants to be king. Couple that with a poor candidate in Hillary, the Presidency was ripe for the taking. Just my 2 cents.[b] [/b]

[CageTheBengal]

(05-28-2017, 03:16 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: You can't really blame most of his supporters. I'm not talking about the right wing dingbat hypocrites politicians who said Trump was no good only to turn around and say he was great after he won. I'm talking about all supporters looking for change. Trump said all the right things campaigning that people wanted to hear. They didn't realize he was a con man who wants to be king. Couple that with a poor candidate in Hillary, the Presidency was ripe for the taking. Just my 2 cents.  

 I go back and forth about how much responsibility I want to hold his supporters for. Probably over 85% of my local area supported Trump so I know a lot of his supporters as my neighbors and such. They are like any other place some good some bad in fact people around here seem generally friendly but I know from experiences I've had with them that at times they don't have tolerance for different points of views and it's that kind of approach to their politics that frustrates me and why I think the reality of what Trump is and what he said over the course of the election to now never hit home for them. It waters down all serious discussions and eventually turns into the same recycled lines being blindly said without any thought.

 They might not have realized it but everything you needed to know about Trump was out there and it's the voters responsibility to be educated. While I agree Hillary was a poor candidate Trump was just a poor human being imo. I believe if Bernie was the candidate for the Democrats he would've won. He was the morally superior candidate to Trump and still had an outsider angle. Combine the opinion of Hillary and the way voters were feeling aboust established politicians she had a slim chance.

[ballsofsteel]

(05-28-2017, 03:37 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote:  I go back and forth about how much responsibility I want to hold his supporters for. Probably over 85% of my local area supported Trump so I know a lot of his supporters as my neighbors and such. They are like any other place some good some bad in fact people around here seem generally friendly but I know from experiences I've had with them that at times they don't have tolerance for different points of views and it's that kind of approach to their politics that frustrates me and why I think the reality of what Trump is and what he said over the course of the election to now never hit home for them. It waters down all serious discussions and eventually turns into the same recycled lines being blindly said without any thought.

 They might not have realized it but everything you needed to know about Trump was out there and it's the voters responsibility to be educated. While I agree Hillary was a poor candidate Trump was just a poor human being imo. I believe if Bernie was the candidate for the Democrats he would've won. He was the morally superior candidate to Trump and still had an outsider angle. Combine the opinion of Hillary and the way voters were feeling aboust established politicians she had a slim chance.

Well said Cage, I agree. IMHO, Hillary needs to go away. she had her chance and blew it. Took it for granted that she was going to win. A good portion of people who voted for trump did so out of hate for Hillary. They didn't care that Trump was/is a con man. I wanted Bernie to win the primary but I believe he should of been more moderate in his free college and $15 min. wage stand.
The rich get and want to get richer. Trump and Hillary don't give a shit about the middle class. Bernie seemed like he did. Do you think that there are people who voted for Trump that actually thought or think that Mexico was going to pay for that wall? LOL.

[*michaelsean*]

His statements on classified info is not really hypocritical. She was careless, as President he chose to share, which is his right. You can of course argue whether that was a good decision or not.

[GMDino]

(05-30-2017, 10:15 AM)michaelsean Wrote: His statements on classified info is not really hypocritical.  She was careless, as President he chose to share, which is his right.  You can of course argue whether that was a good decision or not.

You could also argue that (within his rights or not) he was also "careless."

[*michaelsean*]

(05-30-2017, 10:23 AM)GMDino Wrote: You could also argue that (within his rights or not) he was also "careless."

But that would be an opinion.  He may have shared it to show how much he knows, or there could have been a legit reason.

[BmorePat87]

Literally nothing he does matters. Liberals hate him, so even if he is clearly contradicting campaign promises, everything he does is good. His budget would **** over his base in the midwest if approved as is, and they would still blame Democrats, the media, and John McCain.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-30-2017, 10:24 AM)michaelsean Wrote: But that would be an opinion.  He may have shared it to show how much he knows, or there could have been a legit reason.

Not to mention that McMaster, who is highly respected by both sides, flat out said nothing inappropriate was shared.  But what does he know?  His assertions doesn't fit the agenda so it can be safely ignored.

[Vlad]

Jeez, another "we don't like Trump" safe space on a bengals board.

Since when did words matter, for any politician, any party...either on the campaign trail, or post election?
Well, since Nov. 8, 2016 I suppose.

For decades we've been whining about crooked, lying, dishonest, in it for themselves smooth talking career politicians.
Now for the first time in history a non politician is elected and you're still bitching.

Yes, Trump is highly inarticulate and sounds like a boob, but is that any worse than an articulate liar like Obama?

[CageTheBengal]

(05-30-2017, 10:15 AM)michaelsean Wrote: His statements on classified info is not really hypocritical.  She was careless, as President he chose to share, which is his right.  You can of course argue whether that was a good decision or not.

(05-30-2017, 11:16 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not to mention that McMaster, who is highly respected by both sides, flat out said nothing inappropriate was shared.  But what does he know?  His assertions doesn't fit the agenda so it can be safely ignored.

Knew it was a mistake mentioning Hillary in this thread because it would muddy my initial point.


Kind of ironic really if you read the thread. The one part of the thread that had something to do with Hillary is being discussed. It's not like I can't find other statements of his that contradicts something else he said.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-30-2017, 11:29 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Knew it was a mistake mentioning Hillary in this thread because it would muddy my initial point.


Kind of ironic really if you read the thread. The one part of the thread that had something to do with Hillary is being discussed. It's not like I can't find other statements of his that contradicts something else he said.

I didn't mention Hillary at all.  I don't think you'll find someone who would argue against Trump making inane or outrageous statements

[CageTheBengal]

(05-30-2017, 11:33 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I didn't mention Hillary at all.  I don't think you'll find someone who would argue against Trump making inane or outrageous statements

Oh I bet I could!

Remember Trump keeps it real.

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-28-2017, 02:32 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: All of these are quotes that either show Hypocrisy or flat out poor character. Once Trump and his team made a statement about "If only people could see what's in his heart." Or something like that well aren't his words/actions the only true glimpse we as people have as we cannot actually see people's thoughts and motives?

I'd say words do matter, however, what matters more is how you perceive what's being said and that is where the problem lies. Whatever Trump says is going to be filtered by our perceptions and we will either perceive it to be good, bad, or take a neutral stance on it.

You mentioned that we can't actually see Trump's thoughts and motives, but the problem that a lot of Trump haters have is that they act like they do know exactly what Trumps thoughts and motives are. You see it with everything he says and everything he does. "Trump said/did such and such because (insert narrative here)".

So yes I think words matter, but how we perceive them matters more.

[GMDino]

(05-30-2017, 11:23 AM)Vlad Wrote: Jeez, another "we don't like Trump" safe space on a bengals board.

Since when did words matter, for any politician, any party...either on the campaign trail, or post election?
Well, since Nov. 8, 2016 I suppose.

For decades we've been whining about crooked, lying, dishonest, in it for themselves smooth talking career politicians.
Now for the first time in history a non politician is elected and you're still bitching.

Yes, Trump is highly inarticulate and sounds like a boob, but is that any worse than an articulate liar like Obama?

To the bold: that because the man elected is " crooked, lying, dishonest, in it for themselves smooth talking."

I think we people say they want an outsider they want an honest person.

I least that's what I want.

[BengalHawk62]

(05-30-2017, 11:23 AM)Vlad Wrote: Jeez, another "we don't like Trump" safe space on a bengals board.

Since when did words matter, for any politician, any party...either on the campaign trail, or post election?
Well, since Nov. 8, 2016 I suppose.

For decades we've been whining about crooked, lying, dishonest, in it for themselves smooth talking career politicians.
Now for the first time in history a non politician is elected and you're still bitching.

Yes, Trump is highly inarticulate and sounds like a boob, but is that any worse than an articulate liar like Obama?

Thanks for making me clean my computer screen from the coffee I coughed up on it. 


Literally, the funniest thing I've read in quite some time.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-30-2017, 11:29 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Knew it was a mistake mentioning Hillary in this thread because it would muddy my initial point.


Kind of ironic really if you read the thread. The one part of the thread that had something to do with Hillary is being discussed. It's not like I can't find other statements of his that contradicts something else he said.

Well how else were you going to show his classified comments as hypocritical if you didn't mention his comments about Hillary?  My reply had nothing to do with Hillary but how they were two different situations.

[Dill]

(05-30-2017, 10:15 AM)michaelsean Wrote: His statements on classified info is not really hypocritical.  She was careless, as President he chose to share, which is his right.  You can of course argue whether that was a good decision or not.

Both were "careless," but choosing to share restricted intel from a close ally with a country hostile to both the US and the ally, without prior discussion and ok from intel experts, goes so far beyond hypocritical and careless and into such colossally bad judgment it leaves me speechless--and couple that with letting a TASS journalist slip into the oval office with all his recording gear at the same time. Hillary, McCain, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan, Carter, etc.--NONE of them would have done this.

To compound matters, after this glimpse into his ignorance of the risk and complexity of such communication, we learn that Trump spent weeks trying to create a channel to Putin which went AROUND existing safeguards and protocols for it.

US voters gave someone who has no clue how to manage classified communication with hostile foreign powers the "right" to risk all kinds of serious consequences for national security, people on the ground in the Middle East, our allies. etc.

Such classified communication is certainly a place where words matter--they matter to the intel community, that is for sure.

When Trump tweets out that his own CIA are like "Nazis"--foreign intel of allies and enemies takes quick note of the dissension and bad judgment. I feel double astonishment every time I write this--first that it occured and then that so many Trumpsters say "so what if he did; the Obama deep state is trying to take him down." In this case Trump's words matter to the former group, not to the latter.

[Dill]

(05-30-2017, 11:23 AM)Vlad Wrote: Jeez, another "we don't like Trump" safe space on a bengals board.

Since when did words matter, for any politician, any party...either on the campaign trail, or post election?
Well, since Nov. 8, 2016 I suppose.

For decades we've been whining about crooked, lying, dishonest, in it for themselves smooth talking career politicians.
Now for the first time in history a non politician is elected and you're still bitching.

Yes, Trump is highly inarticulate and sounds like a boob, but is that any worse than an articulate liar like Obama?

You may have forgotten when McCain refused to agree with a confused supporter who had heard Obama was an "Arab." He was not lying or in it for himself when he did that. What a contrast to the candidate known as the face of birtherism.

However, note that in Saudi Arabia words mattered even for Trump. He did not once mention the words "radical Islamic terrorism" he and his followers insisted HAD to be said if we were EVER going to with the war on terror.

Someone with integrity who knows a great deal about government and is a good person, as we had in Obama, is, yes much better than a lying inarticulate boob who knows nothing about government and is a bad person. I suspect part of what motivated Cage to start this thread was his surprise at how quickly people claiming to be all about truth and integrity were quick to throw all that out the window for Trump.

And ALL of us have not been whining about crooked lying and dishonest politicians. That is pretty much the Fox News approach to 8 years of Clinton and 8 years of Obama, undermining the credibility of the government and MSM. And that has been the primary support for all the false equivalences and oversimplifications and false rumors that put Trump in power.

So words matter in many ways. It is not just about whether a politician tells the truth and then contradicts himself. Propagandists know words matter, and choose them carefully, just as do politicians with integrity. Some voters really do demand integrity; some do not.

For Trump voters, integrity is about building a wall, banning Muslims, demeaning ethnic minorities, destroying ISIS bringing jobs back, getting out of foreign entanglements (welfare for foreign countries), draining the swamp and shocking liberals.  As long as Trump seems to be doing all that, it doesn't matter where Obama was born or if a Muslim ban complicates foreign policy or if Trump changes his mind about tax cuts for the rich or the minimum wage or women's equality or even about the Iran deal. I think these supporters do, to a degree, see what is in Trump's heart.

[CageTheBengal]

(05-30-2017, 01:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well how else were you going to show his classified comments as hypocritical if you didn't mention his comments about Hillary?  My reply had nothing to do with Hillary but how they were two different situations.

I said I regretted bringing up Hillary as part of my example because I forgot some would get hung up on the example I posted instead of the actual point of the thread. Which is Trump is a hypocrite and there are more examples other than the one I posted.

Your reply had only to do with the small segment of my thread that had to do with Hillary.