Does God exist?

[BigPapaKain]

(07-27-2022, 09:10 AM)Nately120 Wrote: They are the one local team I like...it's nice we can hate on each other in some regard.

I honestly was pretty indifferent towards them until Sidney Crosby was a thing. I ***** hate that dude.

[SunsetBengal]

I wonder if in Heaven, fast food orders will actually look as appetizing as they do in the advertisements?

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-27-2022, 10:49 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wonder if in Heaven, fast food orders will actually look as appetizing as they do in the advertisements?  

As long as there are guns, it will be OK ! 

[KillerGoose]

(07-26-2022, 10:51 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I've been reading many posts here and they are just so anti-God it is unbelievable. I guess some people have decided God does not exist. I personally know He exists. How can I prove it? Every time someone challenges the Bible, they reach a dead end because facts are facts. My brother says religion is for the weak and need to believe in something. I tell him it is about living the best life on earth. God does answer prayers and I've seen it first hand. Maybe not the way I thought it would be answered, but they get answered. It says in the Bible God answered the prayers of righteous people. Why would somebody expect an answer if they are unrighteous? The answer is yes God exists.

You don’t know that God exists - you have faith that he does. There is an important difference there. I have faith that extraterrestrial life exists in the universe, but I don’t know that it does. Later in this thread, you speak of arrogance in regard to another poster yet here you are, claiming that God exists as a fact. Your beliefs are no more fact than mine.

I personally don’t know if he exists or not. I’m agnostic. I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that there are higher beings in the universe that could be creators of life or fit our ideas of gods. If these beings do exist, I personally don’t believe that anyone here on Earth is worshipping them.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-27-2022, 03:50 AM)hollodero Wrote: Just as a human can not be 600 years old as Noah allegedly was, 

There is quite a few diverse theories on that and i am no expert by any means.

Adam and Eve were created to be Eternal.
In Genesis, death was not a part of the original perfect world, but introduced as a punishment for sin.

Adam and Eve might not have been the first *****-Sapiens, but were the first to receive Souls. Cain makes a reference to other *****-Sapiens out there and that he will likely be killed by them after he killed Abel.

One of my personal favorites that makes the most sense, is if God created the Earth in 7 days, yet scientists have shown that it took thousands of years to reach that point via the Big Bang theory... it is simply Time to an Eternal does not flow the same way as it does for the way Man calculates time. Which could also explain why the vast age discrepancies from the earlier humans were simply mathematical errors that they didn't know how to correct and just rolled with it and found a starting point later.. like after the Floods, where the age of man started to change dramatically.

There's others, so feel free to add yours and keep it civil and keep the focus on the topic not the posters

[Stewy]

I believe, but I'm not getting into this debate on a message board, except to say the following:

Christianity is based upon faith. Regardless of how hard each side tries, one can not point to definitive proof that Jesus walked the Earth (or didn't), but that is only part of the battle because even if you believe Jesus was physically real, it still takes faith to believe he was the son of God and did what he did.

Those who look for physical proof of Jesus existence have weak faith. The need for something physical, to reinforce the spiritual is a weakness. IMO, God never intended there to be proof. Thus faith. Faith based religion is why I do not debate religion with anyone. Either you have faith or you do not. There is no "proving" anything.

[KillerGoose]

(07-27-2022, 11:04 AM)Stewy Wrote: I believe, but I'm not getting into this debate on a message board, except to say the following:

Christianity is based upon faith. Regardless of how hard each side tries, one can not point to definitive proof that Jesus walked the Earth (or didn't), but that is only part of the battle because even if you believe Jesus was physically real, it still takes faith to believe he was the son of God and did what he did.

Those who look for physical proof of Jesus existence have weak faith. The need for something physical, to reinforce the spiritual is a weakness. IMO, God never intended there to be proof. Thus faith. Faith based religion is why I do not debate religion with anyone. Either you have faith or you do not. There is no "proving" anything.

Just to nitpick - Jesus WAS real. Whether or not he was divine, we don’t know. He was a real, historical figure, though.

[CJD]

Someday, I will die and, in that moment, in theory, I will know if God exists or not.

I suspect there is some form of higher power (whether it is a sentient God or just a force of nature, I cannot say), but with no evidence that could not be explained otherwise, no one knows for sure.

I think a lot of religion was created to answer the questions, concerns and fears that don't have an answer. What happens to my consciousness after I die? What is the purpose of my existence? What is the end game of this universe? All questions that, if God does not exist, do not have an answer and have deeply unsettling implications if you dwell on them too long.

On the other end of the spectrum, if we assume that a God does exist, there are other questions that don't have an answer. Why do so many people needlessly suffer in a world with the resources to support them? Why do evil people exist? Why is God so hands off when he was apparently talking to people every week before there was a digital record?

I don't blame anyone for falling on either side of the spectrum. Depending on your own experiences, you may feel extremely grateful or extremely resentful towards the idea of a higher power. If you're doing well in life, you can attribute your successes to the "unseen hand" of God. If you are not doing well in life, you can question why God did not feel you were worth their affection.

I think religion and, in America at least, Christianity is so baked into society that most people would say "maybe, but I don't know" at the very worst and "I have faith that God does exist" at best. There are Atheists who choose not to believe which is fine and there are people who choose to believe they know for a fact that God does exist, which is also fine.

As long as we aren't imposing our values on each other, I don't have a problem with anyone's beliefs in the matter. It's a deeply spiritual question to answer and one that no one has a definitive answer to until it's too late (because they're dead and either meet God/go to the afterlife or...don't and just cease to exist.)

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-27-2022, 11:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Someday, I will die and, in that moment, in theory, I will know if God exists or not.

I suspect there is some form of higher power (whether it is a sentient God or just a force of nature, I cannot say), but with no evidence that could be explained otherwise, no one knows for sure.

I think a lot of religion was created to answer the questions, concerns and fears that don't have an answer. What happens to my consciousness after I die? What is the purpose of my existence? What is the end game of this universe? All questions that, if God does not exist, do not have an answer and have deeply unsettling implications if you dwell on them too long.

On the other end of the spectrum, if we assume that a God does exist, there are other questions that don't have an answer. Why do so many people needlessly suffer in a world with the resources to support them? Why do evil people exist? Why is God so hands off when he was apparently talking to people every week before there was a digital record?

I don't blame anyone for falling on either side of the spectrum. Depending on your own experiences, you may feel extremely grateful or extremely resentful towards the idea of a higher power. If you're doing well in life, you can attribute your successes to the "unseen hand" of God. If you are not doing well in life, you can question why God did not feel you were worth their affection.

I think religion and, in America at least, Christianity is so baked into society that most people would say "maybe, but I don't know" at the very worst and "I have faith that God does exist" at best. There are Atheists who choose not to believe which is fine and there are people who choose to believe they know for a fact that God does exist, which is also fine.

As long as we aren't imposing our values on each other, I don't have a problem with anyone's beliefs in the matter. It's a deeply spiritual question to answer and one that no one has a definitive answer to until it's too late (because they're dead and either meet God/go to the afterlife or...don't and just cease to exist.)

Maybe there is a God and there is no afterlife.

A lot of people don't think there is an afterlife for trees, animals and they do believe in a God. Why would there be one for humans ?

Afterlife is not mandatory for the question of God.

[CJD]

(07-27-2022, 12:03 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Maybe there is a God and there is no afterlife.

A lot of people don't think there is an afterlife for trees, animals and they do believe in a God. Why would there be one for humans ?

Afterlife is not mandatory for the question of God.

Sure, but an Afterlife (or a second life) is the only reason anyone cares if there is a God or not.

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-27-2022, 12:06 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Sure, but an Afterlife (or a second life) is the only reason anyone cares if there is a God or not.

We will agree on that. Take Heaven out of religion and it's gonna fail very fast.

[*Nately120*]

I always think of stuff like, what if I die and God is like "So...pretty nice planet I made for you huh?  Didn't think you needed to take care of that thing, didja?  Nahh....it's fine...it wasn't that hard to create it, you can wreck it.  Honestly, when I created it I actually wanted the air and water to be poisonous, so you and your ilk just saved me the trouble.  It's much better this way.  Welcome to heaven...try not to pollute it, hardy har!"

Of course, since we make God in our own image my version of God is a rather sardonic one.

(07-27-2022, 12:08 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: We will agree on that. Take Heaven out of religion and it's gonna fail very fast.

Why should I believe this stuff?  Well, if you do when you die you'll have eternal awesomeness....and just to hedge our bets in case that isn't enough to convince you if you choose to NOT believe you'll have eternal suffering and damnation.  Really covers all the bases.

[Lucidus]

(07-27-2022, 11:04 AM)Stewy Wrote: I believe, but I'm not getting into this debate on a message board, except to say the following:

Christianity is based upon faith.  Regardless of how hard each side tries, one can not point to definitive proof that Jesus walked the Earth (or didn't), but that is only part of the battle because even if you believe Jesus was physically real, it still takes faith to believe he was the son of God and did what he did.

Those who look for physical proof of Jesus existence have weak faith.  The need for something physical, to reinforce the spiritual is a weakness.  IMO, God never intended there to be proof.  Thus faith.  Faith based religion is why I do not debate religion with anyone.  Either you have faith or you do not.  There is no "proving" anything.

That concept would seem to suggest a God that is irrational and / or indifferent:

Creates beings with the ability to seek and evaluate evidence.
Purposely chooses not to grant those beings with any evidence.
Wants those beings to believe despite the lack of evidence.

If a God is unwilling or incapable of providing evidence, of what use are they?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-27-2022, 10:50 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: As long as there are guns, it will be OK ! 

Assuming the common definition of "heaven" why would anyone need a gun there?

[*Nately120*]

(07-27-2022, 01:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Assuming the common definition of "heaven" why would anyone need a gun there?

Because guns make people exceedingly happy. 

All joking aside I feel like telling people that heaven is an eternal gun-free zone would cause some distress, and that's just me saying that I don't get the whole gun love thing, but I recognize that people literally love guns.  Saying there are no guns in heaven to them would be like telling a musician that there are no instruments in heaven.  It's eternity without something you value for the simple purpose that you don't need it there...but what does one need in heaven?  This brings up the unfathomable idea of the pleasure-centered afterlife.

I mean...technically if you believe in God/Jesus and get pleasure from diddling kids can you spend eternity diddling kids?  That goes back to what it takes to get into heaven, actions versus belief and supplication.  

[Arturo Bandini]

I was being sarcastic.

My theory about God is that one and it's the only one that makes any sense to me.

About God's plan

But I'm definitely open to other theories if you have some.

[Bengalzona]

I believe in God. I also believe in Jesus. But I don't believe because I have been told to believe, or because "it says in the Book that ya gotta believe!". Quite frankly, I have some real issues with taking everything in the Bible literally. I believe because I choose to believe. That's it. A leap of faith, as they say. And I think that that concept of 'choice' is fundamental to Judeo-Christian theology. Also, it is a very personal decision.

Some folks don't like to see religion put so simply as "a choice". They might say it trivializes their faith and fuels arguments for people who are not religious. Personally. I don't care. I don't see it as my job to "win souls" for the faith (similar to collecting scalps, IMAO). If people choose not to believe for whatever reason (evil in the world, lack of evidence, priestly perverts, etc), then so be it. That is their choice. I'm not going to argue with them or berate their choice because it differs from mine. And the reason I don't is because the one solid thing that have found in the Bible that makes the most sense is the Shema: (basically) "Love God and love your neighbor". Some of you will recognize this from Matthew 22:37-40. And I would extend this in my own believe to read "and show your love for God by loving your neighbor". Personally, I think that is what it is all about. Why would religious belief need to be any more complicated than that?

[Lucidus]

(07-27-2022, 11:08 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Just to nitpick - Jesus WAS real. Whether or not he was divine, we don’t know. He was a real, historical figure, though.

It's by no means remarkable that a charismatic, itinerant Rabbi named Jesus existed at the time. In fact, there were many messianic figures during that period. So to say that such an individual existed is wholly reasonable. However, I also find it reasonable to consider that both the Jesus character and the attributes / teaching given him could be purely amalgamations of multiple individuals, concepts and lures; both existing a the time and previously throughout various traditions. Many of the accounts of Jesus weren't at all unique to him, and had already existed, to differing degrees, long before his 'arrival' on the scene. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-27-2022, 12:06 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Sure, but an Afterlife (or a second life) is the only reason anyone cares if there is a God or not.

I would disagree. Gods have existed without a belief in an afterlife (at least that we know of) in human history. That being said, I would argue that the fear of the uncertainty of what happens after death has been the reason for religion. Gods are more of the result of explaining things larger than us; beyond our comprehension.

[Belsnickel]

While I go to a church, I tend to believe in more of a universal truth. The idea of love for one another is something that transcends religions. All cultures have had this as a part of their beliefs in some way or another. I think the Jewish concept of tikkun olam is a great way to think of it. A responsibility to improve the world, a responsibility for the welfare of all. Each society calls it something a little different, but they all have had this as a part of their beliefs.