Donald Trump: wages are 'too high'

[GMDino]

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wages-too-high-2015-11

Quote:Donald Trump said wages are 'too high' in his opening debate statement

In his opening statement at Tuesday night's Republican debate on Fox Business, presidential hopeful Donald Trump said he would not raise the minimum wage and that wages were "too high."

Trump made his comments in response to a question about whether he had sympathy for protesters who wanted to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Tuesday night's debate was focused on the economy.

"We are a country that is being beaten on every front — economically, militarily," Trump said. "Taxes too high, wages too high, we're not going to be able to compete against the world ... People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum."

Trump also said the US "doesn't win anymore."

This isn't the first time Trump has come out against raising the minimum wage. In August, he told MSNBC that raising the minimum wage would hurt America's economic competitiveness.

Multiple other candidates, including top Trump rival Ben Carson, also came out against raising the minimum wage.

Trump is a front-runner for the Republican nomination.

Eight candidates are facing off on the main stage at the debate in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

If everyone would just follow his path to success have daddy give you a bunch of money and then rip people off and file bankruptcy when you fail to screw everyone over so you can keep your money. That's how you make America great again!

[Benton]

(11-12-2015, 08:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wages-too-high-2015-11


If everyone would just follow his path to success have daddy give you a bunch of money and then rip people off and file bankruptcy when you fail to screw everyone over so you can keep your money.  That's how you make America great again!  

it's a pretty smart gambit. He is completely off base, but he's pandering to his base. Upper class, sure, but also the oddly thinking lower class (predominantly white) family on social aide that thinks if the country was better they'd have their own plantation like it's a birthright.

trump doesn't have to worry about ostracizing the middle/lower middle class with these kind of dumb comments, he's already doing it with everything else. Instead he's ramping up Nixon's southern block for one massive push.

[GMDino]

(11-12-2015, 10:31 AM)Benton Wrote: it's a pretty smart gambit. He is completely off base, but he's pandering to his base. Upper class, sure, but also the oddly thinking lower class (predominantly white) family on social aide that thinks if the country was better they'd have their own plantation like it's a birthright.

trump doesn't have to worry about ostracizing the middle/lower middle class with these kind of dumb comments, he's already doing it with everything else. Instead he's ramping up Nixon's southern block for one massive push.

That's how a felt about the "If I'm elected we'll be saying "Merry Christmas"!" line.

Sane, rational people know he's talking out his sphincter....sadly there's a voting bloc that will buy it all.

[Rotobeast]

(11-12-2015, 08:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wages-too-high-2015-11


If everyone would just follow his path to success have daddy give you a bunch of money and then rip people off and file bankruptcy when you fail to screw everyone over so you can keep your money.  That's how you make America great again!  

We need to follow that plan, as a country.
Borrow as much money possible, fake revolution, profit !
Hey the old USA owed you that money, not us.

[*Nately120*]

I'm with Donald on this one! You can't go from rags to riches until you're in rags and frankly most people in this country aren't wearing rags these days.

Then again, Trump was born rich so I guess he was more of a "Vags to Riches" story. ZING!

[GodHatesBengals]

This is nothing new, it's just being stated more bluntly.

Republicans have been arguing that we need to lower our standards and accept third world living conditions for the vast majority of the population so the wealthy elite can get richer for decades. They just typically wrap it in more politically correct language. He got the "compete globally" part right, but he blew it when he (correctly) clarified what it really means: pay working people in the U.S. like Chinese kids making shoes.

[fredtoast]

Here is my theory.

There is plenty of wealth being created on this planet. Anyone who works deserves a certain level of comfort and security. People who complain about how lazy all poor people are do not understand that there are lots of people working long hours that still can't make ends meet. And if working people are squeezed to tightly they will stand up and demand their fair share. That is what US working people did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. And that is what will, eventually happen in all of these emerging economic powers like China and India. So while our wealthy are telling us that we need to take more money away from the working poor and move them closer down to third world labor, I say we need to continue to be a beacon to the working people around the world and show them all that people who work deserve a fair share of the wealth they create.

[JustWinBaby]

I haven't seen a good answer of how the average American worker is going to compete in a global economy - demagoguing the rich is neither the problem nor a solution.

The reality is the US is a lot wealthier than the 95% of the rest of the world, but those smart, hungry (literally) kids in China and India are the ones LITERALLY eating your lunch. But no one wants to hear that and no one wants to talk about it because no one really knows what to do about it.

[Belsnickel]

I guess my thing is that the buying power that the salary from a regular 9-5 (which is no longer 9-5, but 8-5 usually) has decreased so much over the decades. While the Boomers were being born, the average Joe working a full-time job could support a family. You didn't have to be highly educated, blue-collar jobs could make it work, too. Now, that's not the case. With wages not keeping up with inflation, and costs of certain things outpacing inflation, it has made it very difficult to support a family with jobs that once could. What the causes and solutions are to this problem, that's not something I have any real insights on. I just see that there is a problem, which seems to be a step further than some people care to admit.

[GMDino]

(11-13-2015, 01:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I guess my thing is that the buying power that the salary from a regular 9-5 (which is no longer 9-5, but 8-5 usually) has decreased so much over the decades. While the Boomers were being born, the average Joe working a full-time job could support a family. You didn't have to be highly educated, blue-collar jobs could make it work, too. Now, that's not the case. With wages not keeping up with inflation, and costs of certain things outpacing inflation, it has made it very difficult to support a family with jobs that once could. What the causes and solutions are to this problem, that's not something I have any real insights on. I just see that there is a problem, which seems to be a step further than some people care to admit.

Greed.

The rules of the game changed starting in the 1980's.

The haves always had more and had power, but they recognized that a well paid and happy work force meant something.

Then they decided the workers might get some more power too, and workers started wanting more and more, so they started the long process of breaking up the unions and lowering the standards of the workers.

Now we have an ever increasing gap in wages and wage growth and what we hear from the haves is its class warfare to complain about being stepped on.

Really.

The love of money is the root of all evil. And for some giving up a little to make a little more is too much to bear.

[JustWinBaby]

(11-13-2015, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Now we have an ever increasing gap in wages and wage growth and what we hear from the haves is its class warfare to complain about being stepped on.

Really.

The love of money is the root of all evil.  And for some giving up a little to make a little more is too much to bear.

Middle class wages aren't going to the rich, it's going to China and India.  People trying to convince you otherwise are just hoping you'll vote for them under the misguided belief they can do something about it.

I literally want to beat math and economics out my head with a hammer so, I too, can believe all we have to do is tax the rich.

[fredtoast]

(11-13-2015, 01:25 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Middle class wages aren't going to the rich, it's going to China and India.  People trying to convince you otherwise are just hoping you'll vote for them under the misguided belief they can do something about it.

I literally want to beat math and economics out my head with a hammer so, I too, can believe all we have to do is tax the rich.

Income disparity causes lots of problems in society.  Here in the US it is not as extreme is other nations, but it is headed in the wrong direction.  We need to do whatever is necessary to keep some balance.  That is a purpose of a government.  To put the best interest of the nation above the best interests of the very small minority that control 90% of the wealth.

No one is screaming to throw the rich out in the streets.  All we are saying is that the system needs to ne tweaked a little to keep some balance.  

Eventually all these poor workers in India and China will revolt and demand a better living wage.  Then they will have to fend off the challenge of the cheap labor in Africa or South America.  

America may eventually sink down to a level of other industrial countries, but there will always be enough wealth for the top few % to live in opulence, and still have decent comfort for the working class.

[GMDino]

(11-13-2015, 01:25 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Middle class wages aren't going to the rich, it's going to China and India.  People trying to convince you otherwise are just hoping you'll vote for them under the misguided belief they can do something about it.

I literally want to beat math and economics out my head with a hammer so, I too, can believe all we have to do is tax the rich.

I never said "tax the rich".

I said the wage gap is increasing because the haves are seeing increases while the workers are not.

CEO of US Steel made something like 30 million because 2014 was a good year...2015 is NOT a good year so they are laying off workers.  Clearly he can't be expected to NOT get his bonus because of economic factors outside of his control.

That's just one example.

And when he fails completely? Nice severance package and then on to the next cushy job on a board somewhere.

[Au165]

(11-13-2015, 01:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I guess my thing is that the buying power that the salary from a regular 9-5 (which is no longer 9-5, but 8-5 usually) has decreased so much over the decades. While the Boomers were being born, the average Joe working a full-time job could support a family. You didn't have to be highly educated, blue-collar jobs could make it work, too. Now, that's not the case. With wages not keeping up with inflation, and costs of certain things outpacing inflation, it has made it very difficult to support a family with jobs that once could. What the causes and solutions are to this problem, that's not something I have any real insights on. I just see that there is a problem, which seems to be a step further than some people care to admit.

You are worth what someone says you are worth, it is kind of the whole idea around a capitalist economy like ours. Those jobs don't support a family anymore because we have decided the skill required to do them is either easily replaced by someone else, or by a machine.

[Belsnickel]

(11-13-2015, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Greed.

The rules of the game changed starting in the 1980's.

The haves always had more and had power, but they recognized that a well paid and happy work force meant something.

Then they decided the workers might get some more power too, and workers started wanting more and more, so they started the long process of breaking up the unions and lowering the standards of the workers.

Now we have an ever increasing gap in wages and wage growth and what we hear from the haves is its class warfare to complain about being stepped on.

Really.

The love of money is the root of all evil. And for some giving up a little to make a little more is too much to bear.

The problem is that there is no one cause, and while greed may be the root of it all, it really isn't something tangible that we can sink our teeth into and eliminate.

(11-13-2015, 01:25 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Middle class wages aren't going to the rich, it's going to China and India.  People trying to convince you otherwise are just hoping you'll vote for them under the misguided belief they can do something about it.

I literally want to beat math and economics out my head with a hammer so, I too, can believe all we have to do is tax the rich.

I think the reason it is so easy to look to the upper classes for where to direct the ire of the workers is because of the ever increasing wage gap, but also because those jobs getting shoved overseas is the result of decisions made by those in those upper classes. Be they executives or politicians, those decisions were made at levels above the pay grade of the average worker, while they are suffering from it.

[XenoMorph]

(11-12-2015, 08:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wages-too-high-2015-11


If everyone would just follow his path to success have daddy give you a bunch of money and then rip people off and file bankruptcy when you fail to screw everyone over so you can keep your money. That's how you make America great again!

No but you can earn a good living and be as successful as you push yourself to be without raising min wage... Which 15$ for people working at mcdonalds is way to high especially since they cant get the damn orders right. being a guy/girl working at a job like that should not be your career goal. it should be a step ladder job. also dont think we should raise wages on jobs that require no skill vs jobs that do.

[EatonFan]

(11-13-2015, 01:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: You are worth what someone says you are worth, it is kind of the whole idea around a capitalist economy like ours. Those jobs don't support a family anymore because we have decided the skill required to do them is either easily replaced by someone else, or by a machine.

This is true.  If you think you are worth more, then show those skills and prove you are worth more.  If your current job does not allow you to support yourself -- look for another one that will.  Gaining skills will never hurt anyone. 

Beyond this the real problem is how government structures its benefits.  The incentive is to stay in a certain income range (an income box).

If you take government benefits into account (and treated them as compensation) I'd bet wages have risen in the last 25 years instead of being flat. 

What are some of these benefits?

Earned income credit
Additional child tax credit
Daycare
HUD housing
Utility subsidies
'Free' YMCA memberships
Food stamps
Cash assistance
Medicaid
Student Aid


There's more.

The problem with every one of those programs is that in order to get them you must keep your income low -- IN the box.  Both parties support these programs, but for different reasons.

[Benton]

(11-13-2015, 01:25 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Middle class wages aren't going to the rich, it's going to China and India.  People trying to convince you otherwise are just hoping you'll vote for them under the misguided belief they can do something about it.

I literally want to beat math and economics out my head with a hammer so, I too, can believe all we have to do is tax the rich.

Sorta, but not to the extent they are here. They are going there, but only as part of global income disparity.

It's not like a company spending $5 million in US worker salaries is shutting down domestic production and outsourcing it with a Chinese company to spend $5 million in Chinese worker salaries. They're spending a smaller percentage of what they're spending here and then using the rest as profit.

And there's nothing wrong with that. In my job, I almost always go with the cheapest source, be it labor or supplies. But I do give more consideration to local companies as they (hopefully) give me more consideration when I bid a product. Plus, it helps my overall local economy. If I go with a local office supply place for toner, I usually pay 10-30% more... but they in turn have employees who have jobs and are more likely to buy my product.

That's where the system is failing now. People are maximizing their profits (which is good) but there's no consideration to sustainable long term growth outside of their own company. And that's driving a lot of the reduced middle class which will eventually mean there is less revenue being spent across the board.

[Belsnickel]

(11-13-2015, 02:06 PM)EatonFan Wrote: This is true.  If you think you are worth more, then show those skills and prove you are worth more.  If your current job does not allow you to support yourself -- look for another one that will.  Gaining skills will never hurt anyone. 

Beyond this the real problem is how government structures its benefits.  The incentive is to stay in a certain income range (an income box).

If you take government benefits into account (and treated them as compensation) I'd bet wages have risen in the last 25 years instead of being flat. 

What are some of these benefits?

Earned income credit
Additional child tax credit
Daycare
HUD housing
Utility subsidies
'Free' YMCA memberships
Food stamps
Cash assistance
Medicaid
Student Aid


There's more.

The problem with every one of those programs is that in order to get them you must keep your income low -- IN the box.  Both parties support these programs, but for different reasons.

So what about the people in the brackets that don't benefit from these things? Not a single thing on that list am I privy to, I work a full time skilled job as a supervisor, my wife works a full time job, and we cannot afford to start a family. We aren't sitting on our laurels, I'm going back to school, she's going for a doctoral program, but in all honesty we aren't even sitting here with high aspirations, just enough to be comfortable with having a family.

Of course, there is a lot more at play here for my situation, but the fact is that someone in a role like mine 40 years ago could support a family. I know this to be true because I have met the folks working this type of job 40 years ago. One of them is a current employee of mine. Yes, I am her supervisor. So it's all well and good to say "improve yourself", but taking that route is just ignoring the fact that while you can always do things to make yourself more valuable, the people that make those decisions are seeing less value in things than they used to.

[*Nately120*]

(11-13-2015, 01:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I guess my thing is that the buying power that the salary from a regular 9-5 (which is no longer 9-5, but 8-5 usually) has decreased so much over the decades. While the Boomers were being born, the average Joe working a full-time job could support a family. You didn't have to be highly educated, blue-collar jobs could make it work, too. Now, that's not the case. With wages not keeping up with inflation, and costs of certain things outpacing inflation, it has made it very difficult to support a family with jobs that once could. What the causes and solutions are to this problem, that's not something I have any real insights on. I just see that there is a problem, which seems to be a step further than some people care to admit.

Agreed.  Another side effect of this involves people who are fiscally responsible tend to put off settling down and having said family until they are financially stable (something that is taking longer these days) while the less secure or responsible are still reproducing at prior rates.  The short of it is that I'm bordering on 34 and I went to college with a number of people who are still unmarried and/or just now married and/or having kids and I went to high school with people who are becoming grandparents.

Eep!