Dont' discount the value of learning a skilled trade.

[SunsetBengal]

I stumbled across this article, and it reinforces what I have already known for most of my life. Having a skill that is in demand makes a person much more valuable in the employment market than a person without, or even a person that chose an academic degree path in a field with few opportunities.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/decades-pushing-bachelors-degrees-u-s-needs-tradespeople/

Quote:The United States has 30 million jobs that pay an average of $55,000 per year and don’t require a bachelor’s degree, according to the Georgetown center. People with career and technical educations are actually slightly more likely to be employed than their counterparts with academic credentials, the U.S. Department of Education reports, and significantly more likely to be working in their fields of study.
At California Steel Industries, where Esparza was learning industrial computing, some supervisors without college degrees make as much as $120,000 per year and electricians also can make six figures, company officials said.

Quote:Skilled trades show among the highest potential among job categories, the economic-modeling company Emsi calculates. It says tradespeople also are older than workers in other fields — more than half were over 45 in 2012, the last period for which the subject was studied — meaning looming retirements could result in big shortages.

[StLucieBengal]

Without a doubt this is critical.

Too much value on a college degree and not nearly enough on a skills trade.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Yup, college has mostly become a scam. They convinced a generation that your success and happiness in life is directly related to getting a college degree, and that generation became teachers and the like. Those teachers spent their entire time convincing people that their happiness and success in life is dependent upon them going to college. So those people go to college, get a degree that may or may not actually be any use in their job, and end up in tons of debt while trying to find a job in their degree, only to find out that most of what they were taught isn't useful for anything other than teaching other people to get that degree, because they still have no job skills. So they end up working a couple part-time jobs to try and pay off their massive student loan debt... and they're already over 25% done with their lifespan.

Meanwhile someone who went to a trade school learned actual useful job skills, with real demand, and is ready to start working at the age of 18.

When everyone started going to college, the degree got vastly devalued. Now you need a Masters just to stand out of the crowd, which means more years and more debt. Now you have people going to school for 6-7 years to get a degree in something that qualifies them for absolutely nothing else besides teaching other people to get that degree.

Did you know there's actually a degree to become a librarian now? Yes, in order to restock books on shelves in alphabetical order, and help people find books, you need a college degree now. Seriously.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-28-2017, 08:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: ..

When the housing market crashed what did you do?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-31-2017, 11:46 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: When the housing market crashed what did you do?

Went back and learned a new skill.  Seems to be working for me.  I've completed my apprenticeship time, just need to test for my professional credentials.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-01-2017, 01:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Went back and learned a new skill.  Seems to be working for me.  I've completed my apprenticeship time, just need to test for my professional credentials.

I thought you earned a bachelor's degree?

[StLucieBengal]

When the housing market crashed the smart money went into buying up real estate.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-01-2017, 03:05 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When the housing market crashed the smart money went into buying up real estate.

You're just telling Sunset this now?

[ballsofsteel]

" Having a skill that is in demand makes a person much more valuable in the employment market than a person without".

Dah, do you think so?

[ballsofsteel]

(09-01-2017, 01:03 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I thought you earned a bachelor's degree?

In another post he said when he was "in college", thats when he supposedly beat up a guy as big as Big Ben for harassing a girl.

People have gone to college for one semester and then dropped out but still tell everyone that they "went to college", which is true in a way but a far cry from graduating from college.

Sometimes people forget what they claimed previously and get caught making things up.

[treee]

(08-31-2017, 11:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yup, college has mostly become a scam. They convinced a generation that your success and happiness in life is directly related to getting a college degree, and that generation became teachers and the like. Those teachers spent their entire time convincing people that their happiness and success in life is dependent upon them going to college. So those people go to college, get a degree that may or may not actually be any use in their job, and end up in tons of debt while trying to find a job in their degree, only to find out that most of what they were taught isn't useful for anything other than teaching other people to get that degree, because they still have no job skills. So they end up working a couple part-time jobs to try and pay off their massive student loan debt... and they're already over 25% done with their lifespan.

Meanwhile someone who went to a trade school learned actual useful job skills, with real demand, and is ready to start working at the age of 18.

When everyone started going to college, the degree got vastly devalued. Now you need a Masters just to stand out of the crowd, which means more years and more debt. Now you have people going to school for 6-7 years to get a degree in something that qualifies them for absolutely nothing else besides teaching other people to get that degree.

Did you know there's actually a degree to become a librarian now? Yes, in order to restock books on shelves in alphabetical order, and help people find books, you need a college degree now. Seriously.

There's a difference between a librarian at your small town library and a librarian managing an academic library where they oversee access to hundreds of thousands of resources both digital and print.

[treee]

Seems natural that institutes of higher education would expand in a post-industrialist society. It makes sense that as the need for human labor decreases through technological advancement, that more people self actualize via learning. The real problem is that we're not forward thinking enough to properly restructure our society to support these advancements. Instead we allow obscene amounts of wealth to be concentrated and invested against the interests of the general population, even though they're the backbone of the wealth creation in the first place.

[BmorePat87]

(08-31-2017, 11:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yup, college has mostly become a scam. They convinced a generation that your success and happiness in life is directly related to getting a college degree, and that generation became teachers and the like. Those teachers spent their entire time convincing people that their happiness and success in life is dependent upon them going to college. So those people go to college, get a degree that may or may not actually be any use in their job, and end up in tons of debt while trying to find a job in their degree, only to find out that most of what they were taught isn't useful for anything other than teaching other people to get that degree, because they still have no job skills. So they end up working a couple part-time jobs to try and pay off their massive student loan debt... and they're already over 25% done with their lifespan.

Meanwhile someone who went to a trade school learned actual useful job skills, with real demand, and is ready to start working at the age of 18.

When everyone started going to college, the degree got vastly devalued. Now you need a Masters just to stand out of the crowd, which means more years and more debt. Now you have people going to school for 6-7 years to get a degree in something that qualifies them for absolutely nothing else besides teaching other people to get that degree.

Did you know there's actually a degree to become a librarian now? Yes, in order to restock books on shelves in alphabetical order, and help people find books, you need a college degree now. Seriously.

I'm glad to know my profession is the root of all evil and completely worthless. 

[SunsetBengal]

(09-01-2017, 01:03 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I thought you earned a bachelor's degree?

I do have a BS in Communications, that I earned a long time ago.  9 months later, I found myself learning a skilled trade in the construction field.  I was instantly making 3 times as much as I did in radio.  Then, about 20 years down the road, the housing market crash led me to find a new profession.  I went back and studied Land Surveying Technology.  Since then I have been gainfully employed in the Surveying department of an Engineering firm.

My point was that I could have saved a lot of time, money, and debt by going directly into the trades.  Looking back, I enjoyed my college days, as I had a lot of fun and made some lifelong friends.  However, if back at the career days, back in HS, had they shown more about skilled trades, rather than telling everyone that you needed a bachelor's degree to be competitive in the "modern world", I might have chosen a different path from the beginning.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-01-2017, 09:03 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I do have a BS in Communications, that I earned a long time ago.  9 months later, I found myself learning a skilled trade in the construction field.  I was instantly making 3 times as much as I did in radio.  Then, about 20 years down the road, the housing market crash led me to find a new profession.  I went back and studied Land Surveying Technology.  Since then I have been gainfully employed in the Surveying department of an Engineering firm.

My point was that I could have saved a lot of time, money, and debt by going directly into the trades.  Looking back, I enjoyed my college days, as I had a lot of fun and made some lifelong friends.  However, if back at the career days, back in HS, had they shown more about skilled trades, rather than telling everyone that you needed a bachelor's degree to be competitive in the "modern world", I might have chosen a different path from the beginning.

Is Land Surveying Technology an Associate's Degree program?

[SunsetBengal]

(09-01-2017, 09:11 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Is Land Surveying Technology an Associate's Degree program?

Yes it is.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-01-2017, 09:13 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes it is.

And you work for a civil engineering firm?

[SunsetBengal]

(09-01-2017, 09:17 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And you work for a civil engineering firm?

Yes, I do.  And, now that my apprenticeship time is completed, I'm eligible to test for professional licensing.

[GMDino]

I agree so much with this.

I'm sure I've told this story but...

I told both my kids that when it came time to a career choice a technical school was just as good (or better) than a four year degree.

Our daughter went to the tech in her HS and graduated with her cosmetology certificate and has been working in her field since before graduation.

Our son considered the same path but he's a little more "book smart" so he stuck with the high school but has already planned to go to our local Penn State campus for a two-year associates in his field.  He'll have to apprentice and move his way up, but he has a plan.

Heck, even our future son in law was going to go to a four year (with help from the National Guard) for electrical engineering but instead is working in construction (what his training is from the guard) and already looking to move on to another outfit once he has his CDL.

I have a degree.  I didn't/dont need it.  But I did have any kind of "skill" and needed to figure out what I was going to do.  College was good for me because I came from a small town where 98% of the people were white and Christian.  It was good to get out and meet and interact with different people.  I learned a lot in college...just not all  that much from my classes.

30 years ago college made sense and didn't strap you with so much debt you could never recover.  Now, get a skill, get a job.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-01-2017, 09:28 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, I do.  And, now that my apprenticeship time is completed, I'm eligible to test for professional licensing.

Is it true that a civil engineer earns more than a land surveying technologist? And does a land surveyor technologist earn more than a construction worker? If so, why? And is an Associate's degree just a piece of paper like some claim a Bachelor's degree is? Or is it a symbol representative of the knowledge and skills you acquired through advanced education that make you more knowledgeable and skilled compared to others without the advanced education?