Door to door vaccine push..........WTH?

[Vas Deferens]

(07-22-2021, 12:08 PM)Dill Wrote: So long as a substantial portion of the population won't get vaccinated because they want to remain "free," then we will never be rid of this thing. If will finally mutate into forms which defeat the vaccine and we are back to square one with who knows how many more hundreds of thousands of deaths and attendant economic damage.

I don't care if the unvaccinated end up unemployed, but I fear that the vaccinated will too if this thing takes off again.

This kind of simple logically progression is utterly unintelligible to these poor undereducated plebes.  Same deficiency Fox exploits.

Quote:Someone PAY Trump to say the Vaccine works. All those people who won't let Guvmint tell them what to do will follow the Dear Leader.

That's the only solution I see.

jesus F**KING christ I really hate that this is the best solution I've heard.  genius. 

I'd like to append that the payment be held in escrow until he gets X% of his base to take the shot, then never pay him like he's one of his contractors.  

[*jason*]

(07-22-2021, 12:08 PM)Dill Wrote: But Tucker Carlson says that if the vaccine is really effective then it should sell itself.
And now it turns out vaccinated people can still get COVID.

DOES THE VACCINE EVEN WORK???

This is what bothers me about the current Fox Effect.  

So long as a substantial portion of the population won't get vaccinated because they want to remain "free," then we will never be rid of this thing. If will finally mutate into forms which defeat the vaccine and we are back to square one with who knows how many more hundreds of thousands of deaths and attendant economic damage.

I don't care if the unvaccinated end up unemployed, but I fear that the vaccinated will too if this thing takes off again. 

Someone PAY Trump to say the Vaccine works. All those people who won't let Guvmint tell them what to do will follow the Dear Leader.
That's the only solution I see. 

The best part about your last paragraph is that Trump is vaccinated... Even though he almost lost his chubby life to the disease just months prior.

[*Nately120*]

(07-22-2021, 08:18 PM)jason Wrote: The best part about your last paragraph is that Trump is vaccinated... Even though he almost lost his chubby life to the disease just months prior.

A number of right wing politicians and pundits are telling people to get the vaccine now.  Maybe they realized they can't afford to risk losing more of their voter base. 

[Beaker]

(07-21-2021, 05:32 PM)Cicero Wrote: Full stop.

People are using this excuse and it has zero merit. The vaccines have not been mandated anywhere, so your personal freedoms are not being taken away. There is simply increasing peer pressure to be a responsible human being and think of the big picture for humanity rather than only yourself. The vaccines have proven to be safe and effective. 95 percent of people now becoming infected with covid are the unvaccinated. They are the ones keeping this pandemic alive and increasing the likelihood of new, more deadly variants. So stop with the BS excuses and get vaccinated.

[NATI BENGALS]

I heard 24% of new cases are now children. And school hasn’t started back yet.


It would be great if Ricky from the trailer park and Monique from downtown would stop being jackasses and do their part to help out humanity.?

[MTBengalsFan]

When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 30 years ago it amazed me that I often heard from others "Them's the brakes! I now take a medication to battle MS and that medication means I have virtually 0 antibodies bodies to covid despite getting the vaccine. I am again hearing the equivalency of "Them's the Brakes."

The concern for our fellow citizens can be mind-numbing.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-09-2021, 04:31 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Where are people being forced to take it? Lay off the hyperbole.

Take the vax or get fired.  Take the vax or lose your income.  That is non-violent force for most people bro.  Maybe you are rich and can just quit and not have a care in the world.  A huge amount of people are paycheck to paycheck with families to support.  Also a huge amount of people are just above that level, but still could not afford to just lose their paycheck.

You can say that is not "forced" if that is how you have to parse it in your mind to make yourself feel ok about it, but in reality that is forced for many millions of people.

Forced isn't always a gun to your head, but you should know that.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-09-2021, 08:52 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: But it is semantics. Nobody is holding you down and jabbing you with shots, therefore nobody is forcing you to do a damn thing.

They're forcing you to deal with consequences of your actions, WHICH IS HOW THE WORLD SHOULD WORK.

The consequence of being forced by threat of lost income to take a vaccine that is not even FDA approved or has any long term testing done?

That is how the world should work?  Wow!  That is scary right there.

[*Nately120*]

(07-27-2021, 01:28 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Take the vax or get fired.  Take the vax or lose your income.  That is non-violent force for most people bro.  Maybe you are rich and can just quit and not have a care in the world.  A huge amount of people are paycheck to paycheck with families to support.  Also a huge amount of people are just above that level, but still could not afford to just lose their paycheck.

You can say that is not "forced" if that is how you have to parse it in your mind to make yourself feel ok about it, but in reality that is forced for many millions of people.

Forced isn't always a gun to your head, but you should know that.

Everyone I know who is against the vaccine keeps telling me that Biden's America is one where you can make boatloads of money on welfare, so I've got my backup plan ready. 

[BigPapaKain]

(07-27-2021, 01:28 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Take the vax or get fired.  Take the vax or lose your income.  That is non-violent force for most people bro.  Maybe you are rich and can just quit and not have a care in the world.  A huge amount of people are paycheck to paycheck with families to support.  Also a huge amount of people are just above that level, but still could not afford to just lose their paycheck.

You can say that is not "forced" if that is how you have to parse it in your mind to make yourself feel ok about it, but in reality that is forced for many millions of people.

Forced isn't always a gun to your head, but you should know that.

(07-27-2021, 01:32 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The consequence of being forced by threat of lost income to take a vaccine that is not even FDA approved or has any long term testing done?

That is how the world should work?  Wow!  That is scary right there.

I've already said it earlier in the thread, but I'll post it again because you've apparently got no interest in reading the entire topic before making these nonsensical posts.

A business has the responsibility to protect their employees and their customers. If you're unwilling to fall in line with the company's public image, they're well within their rights to send you packing to find other gainful employment at a place that doesn't care if you're vaccinated or not. It's no different than wearing some company attire and acting a fool in public - if you damage their image, you're gone. If they feel having a bunch of self centered over sized children who refuse the vaccinations (despite all scientific evidence stating that they're safe and effective) damage their public image, than I encourage them to fire anyone who doesn't feel like being FoRcEd.

Nobody forces you to work. Find some god forsaken patch of land nobody owns and grow your own food and tap your own water. Otherwise, get the shot. Or die weezing, alone, and broke.

[Belsnickel]

(07-27-2021, 01:32 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The consequence of being forced by threat of lost income to take a vaccine that is not even FDA approved or has any long term testing done?

That is how the world should work?  Wow!  That is scary right there.

That's capitalism, bud. That's the market at work. You aren't being forced because you have the freedom to find another source of income, another employer that won't require it.

[Beaker]

(07-27-2021, 01:32 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The consequence of being forced by threat of lost income to take a vaccine that is not even FDA approved or has any long term testing done?

That is how the world should work?  Wow!  That is scary right there.

Better than when idiots who claim getting a shot is an infringement harbor a virus that mutates and creates new variants that then cause us to renew mask mandates and cause more death, suffering and economic devastation. Man up and get your shot.

The mRNA vaccines have been in development and testing for over a decade. FDA approval is notoriously slow. But do you see the hypocrisy in the fact that you are railing against the govt supposedly "making" you get vaccinated....but you want a govt agency to approve the vaccine first?

Florida, with that idiot DeSantis as gov, has been one of the states with the greatest amount of unvaccinated ppl, and also resisted mask mandates. A new variant has just been discovered in....yes, you guessed it...Florida! Everything I have been saying about variants is coming to light. This is terrifying should a variant emerge that is not only more transmissible, but also may eventually evade the vaccine altogether. I shake my head at the rampant stupidity and refusal of some to think of anyone besides themselves. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-28-2021, 09:53 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's capitalism, bud. That's the market at work. You aren't being forced because you have the freedom to find another source of income, another employer that won't require it.

True, but I'm wondering how it's not a HIPAA violation to require it.  What if an employer demanded that everyone take an HIV test and supply the results?  Now, if you're talking about hiring, that's different.  I had to prove I didn't have TB before I could work in a detention facility.  At the same time I had a person bleed all over me during a restraint (they had cut themselves up with the fluorescent light bulb in their cell, they got the supposedly tamper proof cover off of it) and a nurse at the facility told me, off the record, to go get a gamma globulin shot because the person had hepatitis.  The policy prevented them from actually revealing that to me because of HIPAA. But providing confidential medical information to your employer as a condition of continued employment sounds like a violation to me.  But, I'll admit I'm not fully versed in HIPAA and its loopholes.

[BigPapaKain]

(07-29-2021, 07:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: True, but I'm wondering how it's not a HIPAA violation to require it.  What if an employer demanded that everyone take an HIV test and supply the results?  Now, if you're talking about hiring, that's different.  I had to prove I didn't have TB before I could work in a detention facility.  At the same time I had a person bleed all over me during a restraint (they had cut themselves up with the fluorescent light bulb in their cell, they got the supposedly tamper proof cover off of it) and a nurse at the facility told me, off the record, to go get a gamma globulin shot because the person had hepatitis.  The policy prevented them from actually revealing that to me because of HIPAA. But providing confidential medical information to your employer as a condition of continued employment sounds like a violation to me.  But, I'll admit I'm not fully versed in HIPAA and its loopholes.

It is not. It's not any different than an employer asking for a drug screening or taking a physical.

I have to give blood at my job every year for a whole panel of tests. Refusal is instant termination.

[Belsnickel]

(07-29-2021, 07:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: True, but I'm wondering how it's not a HIPAA violation to require it.  What if an employer demanded that everyone take an HIV test and supply the results?  Now, if you're talking about hiring, that's different.  I had to prove I didn't have TB before I could work in a detention facility.  At the same time I had a person bleed all over me during a restraint (they had cut themselves up with the fluorescent light bulb in their cell, they got the supposedly tamper proof cover off of it) and a nurse at the facility told me, off the record, to go get a gamma globulin shot because the person had hepatitis.  The policy prevented them from actually revealing that to me because of HIPAA. But providing confidential medical information to your employer as a condition of continued employment sounds like a violation to me.  But, I'll admit I'm not fully versed in HIPAA and its loopholes.

This has been a big talking point by a lot of people, especially people on the right, and including lawmakers. Unfortunately, this is based in ignorance of HIPAA. Note, I use ignorance in its true meaning, no tin a derogatory sense. I know you probably understand this, but some folks get their knickers in a wad when I use the term to mean a lack of knowledge.

Anyway, what HIPAA does is prevent covered entities from disclosing your health information without your permission (there are some exceptions, but this is the main crux of it). Who is a covered entity, you may ask? For the most part it is insurance companies and healthcare providers. So, this law does not touch the idea of an employer, or even a business you are looking to patron, requesting your vaccination status in order to provide employment, goods, or services. I really don't know how the idea that this violates HIPAA got in the minds of so many (well, I have some ideas), but it is categorically false.

Now, could an argument be made that there is a right to privacy that the request of this information could infringe upon? Not really. A condition for employment like this is pretty well supported in the law, and a business can refuse service for any reason other than a civil rights violation, which this would not fall under.

Interestingly enough, the government can get much more heavy handed with this whole vaccination thing. The law supports the idea of a vaccine mandate from the government, with criminal penalties for not complying. Jacobson v. Massachusetts sets up this ability for the government. I think it has been wise for them not to move into this realm and instead incentivize getting the vaccine as the evidence shows this to be a more effective method of coercion. The incentivization, combined with the private sector instituting their own requirements, is the best possible option for this in my estimation.

[GMDino]

Republicans: "The Socialist Lefties better not come to MY door talking about a vaccine!"

Republicans: "The Communist Lefties can TRY to come to MY door and take my guns!"


Also Republicans:


https://www.yorkdispatch.com/story/news/local/2021/07/29/election-integrity-committee-york-county-accused-voter-intimidation/5399739001/

Quote:'Election integrity committee' in York County accused of voter intimidation

Logan Hullinger
York Dispatch

[/url][url=http://twitter.com/share?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yorkdispatch.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2F2021%2F07%2F29%2Felection-integrity-committee-york-county-accused-voter-intimidation%2F5399739001%2F&text=%27Election%20integrity%20committee%27%20in%20York%20County%20accused%20of%20voter%20intimidation&via=YorkDispatch]


A group calling itself an "election integrity committee" drew allegations of voter intimidation after its members reportedly knocked on doors across York County asking about how and for whom residents voted.

York County President Commissioner Julie Wheeler, who said she received numerous calls about the individuals claiming to be members of the committee, emphasized that they have no affiliation with the county government. The county referred the cases to the Southern York Regional Police Department, said Wheeler, a Republican who was elected to the commission in 2019.

“I received some emails from residents who live in the southern part of York County,” Wheeler said. “I’ve spoken with the individuals, and we’ve turned the matter over to law enforcement.”


Various local officials say they have received reports that the group is visiting residents' homes and questioning how the homeowner voted and who they voted for. The questioning comes as county officials weigh whether to comply with a "forensic audit" of the 2020 election spearheaded by state Sen. Doug Mastriano, R-Franklin County.


“There is an intimidation factor, and that’s what their intent is,” said Chad Baker, chair of the Democratic Party of York County. “The timing of this doesn’t seem suspect given the recent request of the audit by Sen. Mastriano.”


The individuals claiming to be a part of the committee seem to be targeting Democrats in an attempt to seek out voter fraud, a baseless claim that has cemented itself as a rallying cry for supporters of former President Donald Trump, Baker said.
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Steve Snell, a Windsor Township Democrat who in 2018 launched an unsuccessful bid for the state's 94th House District, said he witnessed the committee's actions firsthand.

On Saturday, he said, two women claiming to be members of the committee knocked on his door and asked to speak with his 89-year-old mother-in-law.

"They did not ask who she voted for," Snell said. "If they had, I would have thrown them out. I regret that I was not more persistent in asking about the 'committee' that they said they represented."


Vice President Commissioner Doug Hoke and Commissioner Ron Smith both said they were made aware of the committee's voter outreach on Wednesday morning, but they did not have any additional details.

Southern York Regional Police Chief James Boddington did not respond to requests for comment. Jeff Piccola, chair of the York County Republican Committee, also did not respond to requests for comment.

The GOP-dominated board of commissioners is in the midst of mulling whether to cooperate with a request from Mastriano, a Trump ally notorious for denying the results of the 2020 election, and his request to audit the county's election process.

York was one of three counties to receive the request. Tioga County declined to cooperate, and Philadelphia has yet to respond. The deadline is July 31.

Earlier this month, York County commissioners questioned the legality of Mastriano's demand, the cost to the county and the lack of staff necessary to fulfill the request.

More:York County raises objection to Mastriano's election audit
More:York County officials leave door cracked for election audit; earlier request acknowledged
More:Sen. Mastriano blasts clergy in Facebook video, deletes it

The self-proclaimed committee touring southern York County used tactics that were nearly identical to a forensic audit being conducted by a company hired by state Senate Republicans in Arizona. The U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division, in a May 5 letter obtained by The York Dispatch, accused the firm Cyber Ninjas of voter intimidation because of its door-knocking practice.

"This description of the proposed work of the audit raises concerns regarding potential intimidation of voters. The Department enforces a number of federal statutes that prohibit intimidation of persons for voting or attempting to vote," the DOJ letter reads.

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-30-2021, 07:28 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This has been a big talking point by a lot of people, especially people on the right, and including lawmakers. Unfortunately, this is based in ignorance of HIPAA. Note, I use ignorance in its true meaning, no tin a derogatory sense. I know you probably understand this, but some folks get their knickers in a wad when I use the term to mean a lack of knowledge.

Anyway, what HIPAA does is prevent covered entities from disclosing your health information without your permission (there are some exceptions, but this is the main crux of it). Who is a covered entity, you may ask? For the most part it is insurance companies and healthcare providers. So, this law does not touch the idea of an employer, or even a business you are looking to patron, requesting your vaccination status in order to provide employment, goods, or services. I really don't know how the idea that this violates HIPAA got in the minds of so many (well, I have some ideas), but it is categorically false.

Now, could an argument be made that there is a right to privacy that the request of this information could infringe upon? Not really. A condition for employment like this is pretty well supported in the law, and a business can refuse service for any reason other than a civil rights violation, which this would not fall under.

Interestingly enough, the government can get much more heavy handed with this whole vaccination thing. The law supports the idea of a vaccine mandate from the government, with criminal penalties for not complying. Jacobson v. Massachusetts sets up this ability for the government. I think it has been wise for them not to move into this realm and instead incentivize getting the vaccine as the evidence shows this to be a more effective method of coercion. The incentivization, combined with the private sector instituting their own requirements, is the best possible option for this in my estimation.

I don't remember much of a choice when we had an entire ship full of smallpox vaccine recipients conveniently quarantined and later mefloquine mondays for malaria protection and those were after the anthrax vaccines