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Drafting guys that fit our scheme
#21
Rewatched a few games this year.

This defense struggles a lot in zone coverage. When it comes to man, they're actually pretty good. However, many 3rd downs that they allowed came on 3rd down.

Watch the Steelers game. In the first half, the Bengals did very well when playing man and two safeties over the top or double teaming certain players.

It wasn't until the 2nd half they started using more man coverage.

Kirkaptrick, Dennard, and WJIII are so much better in man than zone. Our linebackers also struggle in zone coverage and have lost players before.

That goes for players on offense as well.

It just feels lately that Marvin is trying to have players play to his scheme rather than their strengths.
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#22
(12-07-2017, 12:07 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Patriots have a scheme and pick guys that fit it. The Bengals? Not so much. We might go best player available...but we don't seem to take into account scheme.

We all know that Kirkpatrick took a long time to play. We know we play a weak zone defense a lot...well guess what? Kirkpatrick is suited for Man Coverage.

From his scouting report: 'Best fit, scheme: He is best suited for a defense that plays a lot of tight man coverage and asks cornerbacks to line up frequently in press alignment. He must play for a team that likes its cornerbacks to be physical with receivers and try to re-route receivers off the line.'

But, it doesn't stop there. He actually struggled in Zone: 'Needs to improve: Kirkpatrick does not always come up field quickly to make tackles in run support and can be ridden out of plays too easily by blockers. He can be a solid wrap-up tackler, but he is not a violent hitter. He must break up more passes from off and zone coverage instead of just making the tackle after the catch.'

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/213892-dre-kirkpatrick-ideal-for-covering-nfls-bigger-receivers

I've read where Dennard is best suited for man-to-man also.

Do we have a scheme?

On Defense when Zim was here we played a lot of man. I believe. (when kirk was drafted)
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#23
The only scheme here is duping the fans to continue the profit machine


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#24
(12-07-2017, 03:05 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Rewatched a few games this year.

This defense struggles a lot in zone coverage. When it comes to man, they're actually pretty good. However, many 3rd downs that they allowed came on 3rd down.

Watch the Steelers game. In the first half, the Bengals did very well when playing man and two safeties over the top or double teaming certain players.

It wasn't until the 2nd half they started using more ZONE coverage.

Kirkaptrick, Dennard, and WJIII are so much better in man than zone. Our linebackers also struggle in zone coverage and have lost players before.

That goes for players on offense as well.

It just feels lately that Marvin is trying to have players play to his scheme rather than their strengths.

Changed the one word from man to ZONE in the 2nd half sentence, perfect.

That is one of the biggest problems with Marv, makes our team constantly go away from what is working...
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#25
(12-07-2017, 03:17 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: The only scheme here is duping the fans to continue the profit machine


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with profit sharing that's on Every NFL fan
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#26
(12-07-2017, 04:25 AM)kevin Wrote: Well if none of the coaches are signed and team is going in a whole new direction, then WE DON'T HAVE A SCHEME.

Our SCHEME better be to draft Left Tackle, Guard and Center EARLY, especially after drafting all these WR's, RB's, CB's, Defense lately and ignoring the O Line except for Og and Fish who might, might I say, be able to play right tackle but stink at left tackle.  Our scheme no matter what coaches we end up with better be to get some blocking or the best coach ever with the best play book ever will find his X's and O's don't work in the hard hitting AFC North with no blocking.

As long as Mike Brown owns team and no GM, the SCHEME is for The Godfather and The Family to get their piece of the action and make as much money as they can. The SCHEME is for Mike Brown, Pete Brown, Katie Brown Blackburn, Paul Brown Jr, and all the grandchildren and great grandchildren of The Browns and Blackburns to have front office jobs and keep the money IN THE FAMILY.   In The Godfather, idiot Fredo was going to learn the casino business.  Here the idiot kids learn the football business, and if it leads to 4 win season, at least they kept the money in the Family. They're going to the mattresses, leave the football and grab the cannoli.  May the next Brown or Blackburn child be a masculine child.
We HAVE invested in various positions. We may find that the future of McCarron + Eifort is uncertain.  Either way, we WILL add to the O-line, maybe 2 of our top 3 picks. we may pick a RB but.. likely shoot for a sleeper later. LB dept?

I saw PROGRESS by the O-line.  We MAY find that the guys we spent rather high picks on..CAN play in the right circumstance, and well coached.
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#27
(12-08-2017, 04:05 PM)redwood Wrote: We HAVE invested in various positions. We may find that the future of McCarron + Eifort is uncertain.  Either way, we WILL add to the O-line, maybe 2 of our top 3 picks. we may pick a RB but.. likely shoot for a sleeper later. LB dept?

I saw PROGRESS by the O-line.  We MAY find that the guys we spent rather high picks on..CAN play in the right circumstance, and well coached.

With new coaches there is hope even for our worst players like Og or Vigil.

Bodine needs to go though, he has shown all he has IMHO. He was PA's pick anyways, let the new OL coach pick his Center.
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#28
(12-08-2017, 04:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: With new coaches there is hope even for our worst players like Og or Vigil.

Bodine needs to go though, he has shown all he has IMHO. He was PA's pick anyways, let the new OL coach pick his Center.

That is a great point.  Look at teams like the Patriots and Steelers.  They do a tremendous job of not only selecting players that you've never heard of, but also developing them to fit perfectly into their respective schemes.  When contract time comes, they don't overpay to keep a player, they just let them walk, and pull the next one in off the shelf.

The management of those teams know the real value is in having great coaching and scouting.  When you have good coaches and scouts, you don't need to "hit the jackpot" on a perfect draft, you just develop whatever you have on hand into what you need.
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#29
(12-08-2017, 04:05 PM)redwood Wrote: We HAVE invested in various positions. We may find that the future of McCarron + Eifort is uncertain.  Either way, we WILL add to the O-line, maybe 2 of our top 3 picks. we may pick a RB but.. likely shoot for a sleeper later. LB dept?

I saw PROGRESS by the O-line.  We MAY find that the guys we spent rather high picks on..CAN play in the right circumstance, and well coached.

Yeah we might draft lineman...but how many will be starter quality? Maybe 1.

Drafts generally don't upgrade a team in Year 1. We absolutely have to sign a free agent somewhere on the offensive line.
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#30
(12-08-2017, 04:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a great point.  Look at teams like the Patriots and Steelers.  They do a tremendous job of not only selecting players that you've never heard of, but also developing them to fit perfectly into their respective schemes.  When contract time comes, they don't overpay to keep a player, they just let them walk, and pull the next one in off the shelf.

The management of those teams know the real value is in having great coaching and scouting.  When you have good coaches and scouts, you don't need to "hit the jackpot" on a perfect draft, you just develop whatever you have on hand into what you need.

To me that is the sign of good scouting. Bengals fans get all excited when the Bengals draft guys they've heard of from big schools. Teams with deep scouting departments find guys from small schools that you've never heard of that come in and play well.
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#31
(12-08-2017, 04:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a great point.  Look at teams like the Patriots and Steelers.  They do a tremendous job of not only selecting players that you've never heard of, but also developing them to fit perfectly into their respective schemes.  When contract time comes, they don't overpay to keep a player, they just let them walk, and pull the next one in off the shelf.

The management of those teams know the real value is in having great coaching and scouting.  When you have good coaches and scouts, you don't need to "hit the jackpot" on a perfect draft, you just develop whatever you have on hand into what you need.

So true, if we had great coaches, losing players like Whit and Zeitler wouldn't completely cripple our season.

We could just move on to the next up and comers, with poor coaching, the next guys up are not ready.

Like in your other thread, MB moving aside and Katie hiring a GM would be the best start.

Then hire all new coaches and get bigger in the scouting dept.

This would be the ultimate change in a good way.
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#32
(12-08-2017, 05:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: To me that is the sign of good scouting. Bengals fans get all excited when the Bengals draft guys they've heard of from big schools. Teams with deep scouting departments find guys from small schools that you've never heard of that come in and play well.

Talent evaluation isn't just limited to looking at players at the college level.  Being able to identify players with traits that fit well into your team's schemes are also on other pro teams, and get cut every year for whatever reason(s).

For example, Jon Toth was cut by the Eagles this preseason.  Don't mean that he's worthless, he had surgery, and couldn't get up to speed in camp to be able to compete for a job.  Hopefully, the Bengals will be giving him a call, and adding him to the roster, as soon as the league year ends.
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#33
(12-08-2017, 05:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Talent evaluation isn't just limited to looking at players at the college level.  Being able to identify players with traits that fit well into your team's schemes are also on other pro teams, and get cut every year for whatever reason(s).

For example, Jon Toth was cut by the Eagles this preseason.  Don't mean that he's worthless, he had surgery, and couldn't get up to speed in camp to be able to compete for a job.  Hopefully, the Bengals will be giving him a call, and adding him to the roster, as soon as the league year ends.

Great example, wanted us to draft Toth too.

If you look at teams like the Eagles or Cowboys, their scraps from their O-lines might be better than most of our starters.
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#34
(12-07-2017, 02:42 PM)Synric Wrote: No. They play bump and run almost exclusively. It's Nick Saban's thing.



http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2012/09/bump_and_shuffle_maybe_the_tec.html

You know I completely mis-remembered what the issue was when Kirkpatrick came out. You are correct.

The issue was that Saban didn't teach backpedaling and Kirkpatrick had never learned how to do it. Here's the article from the time.

http://smartfootball.com/defense/why-nick-saban-doesnt-teach-backpedaling#sthash.l6TRgCnC.dpbs
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