Drag March "Coming for your children"

[CJD]

(06-28-2023, 02:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: TBF though drag queens can do nothing that won't be seen by the opposition as bad.  Their mere existence is "proof" that they are "forcing it down our throats".

Have a show at a club?  Read to children at a library? Walk down the street?  None of that is acceptable to people who oppose their lifestyle choice.

Hell, the person could have been yelling that at protestors in a sarcastic manner for all I care.  Their minds were made up anyway.

When it comes to debate, or discussion, in a public sphere like the internet or through articles on forums, I've found that debating with those already entrenched in their opinions such as the OP will do nothing to convince them. But that's not why you do it. You do it because there are likely a fair number of observers who are either mildly to one side or another or completely neutral. Those are the people you are trying to convince.

If you just let the right wing message take hold or employ tactics like this that can be spun in the right's favor, then those neutrals may become leaning right and those leaning right may become hard right. It's all about damage prevention, in my opinion.

I get why you may feel like it's hopeless though, at least in the context of this message board. You're never going to convince a Brad or a Luvnit of anything positive about the left, after all.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-28-2023, 02:13 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes, but that's also why it such a bad tactic. 

Wanting them to react as they assumed they would only confirms what masses of MAGA/DeSantis supporters
already want to believe. They;re not inclined to process irony, intended or otherwise.

And we can't be sure how independents will respond--the ones who will likely decide the election. Most are probably still fearful of MAGA, but this could produce
some voter hesitation if it continues. 

Interesting perspective on Independents as I am one and know a couple.

[BFritz21]

(06-28-2023, 03:18 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I've watched the video. It is one voice. The crowd chants something different. If you listen closely you can tell it's one voice and can still hear the crowds chant.

Then why do LQBTQ+ activists defend chanterS?

In case you missed that: chanter(S)

https://nypost.com/2023/06/28/lgbtq-activists-defend-were-coming-for-your-children-chant/amp/

And why would they feel the need to defend it?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-28-2023, 03:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah, not sure what you're talking about here.

Really?  I thought it was pretty clear.


 

Quote:I was talking about marchers possibly being sarcastic toward protestors and how those protestors (and those who chose to use the said march and what was said as "proof") were not going to change their minds anyway.

I will directly quote you,

"TBF though drag queens can do nothing that won't be seen by the opposition as bad.  Their mere existence is "proof" that they are "forcing it down our throats".



Have a show at a club?  Read to children at a library? Walk down the street?  None of that is acceptable to people who oppose their lifestyle choice."

I pointed out that yes, extremists on that side of the issue are offended by the mere existence of trans/drag/gay people. I followed up by pointing out that those people are a small and loud minority.  You tarring everyone who objects to child drag shows or LGBT curriculum in schools with the same brush as those who are legitimate bigots is the exact same behavior you're accusing them of, tarring the entire LGBT community with the same brush as its most extreme and vocal members.  I'm honestly confused as to how this wasn't clear.

Quote:Extreme or not the current narrative is that drag queens are bad "because of the children".  At least that's what we were talking about in this thread.

And here you're doing it again.  I don't think the vast majority of those people who object to child drag shows or LGBT curriculum for children are against it because they hate the community of think of them as inherently bad.  A small percentage do, to be sure, but you make no distinction.  Again, tarring everyone with one big brush

Quote:What does the OP have to do with women being treated fairly?  

As we are speaking about the LGBT community as a whole I am obviously pointing out the same type of smearing occurs with those who oppose biological men in women's sports/spaces.  The majority of those opposed to this aren't opposed because they hate transgender people, but you'll certainly get labeled a transphobe if you express your opinion.  Again, I thought the meaning was rather clear.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-28-2023, 03:40 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: When it comes to debate, or discussion, in a public sphere like the internet or through articles on forums, I've found that debating with those already entrenched in their opinions such as the OP will do nothing to convince them. But that's not why you do it. You do it because there are likely a fair number of observers who are either mildly to one side or another or completely neutral. Those are the people you are trying to convince.

[BFritz21]

(06-28-2023, 02:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: As OK as the nude beaches in Florida I guess.

But then I don't see naked people and just assume that it is a sexual situation anymore than when I see a person in a bathing suit or dressed to the nines.

Nude beaches are marked off areas. These were in public streets.

[GMDino]

(06-28-2023, 04:06 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Nude beaches are marked off areas. These were in public streets.

Ok.  Well it's legal to be naked in most states so I guess just stay home.

[BFritz21]

(06-28-2023, 04:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ok.  Well it's legal to be naked in most states so I guess just stay home.

1 you’re full of shit and you’re just making shit up to try and fit your narrative.

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/understanding-nudity-laws.html

“The law generally prohibits nudity in public places in the United States.”

“While most states prohibit showing genitals or female nipples in public places, other states allow simple nudity”

2 just because something is legal, doesn’t mean it’s right. It used to be legal to sterilize mentally ******** people. Is that ok to you?

[BFritz21]

(06-28-2023, 04:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ok.  Well it's legal to be naked in most states so I guess just stay home.

Did you think I was too stupid to know that?

[GMDino]

(06-28-2023, 05:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: 1 you’re full of shit and you’re just making shit up to try and fit your narrative.

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/understanding-nudity-laws.html

“The law generally prohibits nudity in public places in the United States.”

“While most states prohibit showing genitals or female nipples in public places, other states allow simple nudity”

2 just because something is legal, doesn’t mean it’s right. It used to be legal to sterilize mentally ******** people. Is that ok to you?

Seeing a naked person is not the same as abuse of the mentally ill.

The fact that a bunch of men don't want to see women's nipples because they can't control themselves is the problem...not the nudity.

And I believe that phrase in the 1st sentence is frowned upon by some around here.

[GMDino]

(06-28-2023, 05:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Did you think I was too stupid to know that?

I would never think about you being too stupid.  

[Millhouse]

(06-28-2023, 02:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, it seems like we have a case where the "marginalized group" now wants to poke the bear, so to speak?

Been poking the bear in the very recent years now. As Bill Maher said he used to be woke like 6-7 or so years ago, back when it meant something. Now its just getting ridiculous when it comes to the current debates going on. And what amuses me in the headlines is that it's always the "right wing conservatives" countering them. I just kind of smirk because it's not going to be just them.

[samhain]

(06-28-2023, 02:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's likely the case, but who can say for certain?  That said, I agree with you.



Worse than that, it's confirmation of what many on the right have been saying.  Intended ironically or not, it's now on the internet forever and will be used as proof just as long.  This also dovetails perfectly with arguments against pride at elementary schools or discussion of this topic with children under 14.  The whole thing is a very bad look


Indeed it is not.  I've been saying for some time that the movement has gotten a bit full of themselves and have pushed too far.  There are absolutely anti-gay bigots in the "they're coming for our children" crowd, but I think a sizeable majority are people legitimately concerned about adults other than themselves discussing these issues with their kids and the intentions of those people.  And I think that group is only continuing to grow.  This clip right here almost certainly generated thousands more.

Eh,I think it's all just a re-packaging of the lost art of homophobia that fueled the religious right for decades.  If people cared about other adults teaching their kids about adult behavior, no kid would have internet access.  These kids know things at 10 that I didn't know until I was 13.  It's not great, but it's also not because of drag queens.  

The only large scale example of kids being groomed and abused by adults I can verifiably recall in my lifetime is, yep you guessed it, the Catholic Church.  Still waiting for the right to enact laws banning Sunday school, Confirmation, First Communion, and the tradition of altar boys.  

[BFritz21]

(06-28-2023, 05:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: Seeing a naked person is not the same as abuse of the mentally ill.

The fact that a bunch of men don't want to see women's nipples because they can't control themselves is the problem...not the nudity.

And I believe that phrase in the 1st sentence is frowned upon by some around here.

1 It's about the legality because you said making something legal makes it ok morally.

2 You ignored the fact that I called you out on your bullshiit and that it's not legal in most states.

[BFritz21]

(06-28-2023, 05:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: I would never think about you being too stupid.  

HA!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-28-2023, 05:18 PM)samhain Wrote: Eh,I think it's all just a re-packaging of the lost art of homophobia that fueled the religious right for decades.

Yeah, it's not.  I have gay friends and family who are concerned about the current trend in this direction.  I live in as liberal an area of the country as it gets and I consistently hear concerns about how things are going too far.  I get that it's comfortable to dismiss this as far right religious homophobia, but that's just not accurate.

Quote:If people cared about other adults teaching their kids about adult behavior, no kid would have internet access.  These kids know things at 10 that I didn't know until I was 13.  It's not great, but it's also not because of drag queens.  

This is not a very compelling argument.  There's a huge difference in what children see without permission versus what is taught to them by adults.  Kids are supposed to get away with what they can get away with.  If you disagree ask yourself this, is there a difference between a child who looks at porn on the internet without permission versus one that is allowed to do so by their parents?

Quote:The only large scale example of kids being groomed and abused by adults I can verifiably recall in my lifetime is, yep you guessed it, the Catholic Church.  Still waiting for the right to enact laws banning Sunday school, Confirmation, First Communion, and the tradition of altar boys.  

Well, and sorry to Bel, this just isn't true.  The Boy Scouts could be described as such as well (and the vast, vast majority of people who participate in scouting would not fall into that category).  Note that I am not a fan of the Catholic Church at all, and they deserve way more shit then they've gotten for their role in this abuse.  But this is just a lazy "whatabout them" position.  When you have to fall back on deflecting to others it only makes your position look weak.

[Luvnit2]

I guess I am in the minority feeling threatening parents to come after their children is just wrong. I could care less if people want to dress in drag (as long as private body parts are covered. I don't consider myself right wing, but some of you want to label anyone that has different views right wing nuts.

I have no issue with alternate lifestyles, my brother in law was gay, we were great friends and i respected his choice.
We discuss figuring a way forward away from the hatred and divisiveness. Who believes this will be an olive branch to end the hatred? Or is just one more group trying to alienate parents who love their children and feel them, not schools or others should dictate when they are orientated into the sexual world.

As parents, these are our own individual children, not children of others as Biden likes to say. It was my responsible to control my children's life, no one else's. My wife and I educated our 3 daughters on or timeline, not someone else's timeline.

I am not a violent man, but if I feared anyone was coming for my children, they better come armed as I would put my life on the line to protect them.

So call me crazy or a right wing nut, but no one has the right to come for my children or threaten to come after my children or my grand children.

[*Nately120*]

(06-28-2023, 06:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I guess I am in the minority feeling threatening parents to come after their children is just wrong.

It is wrong.  My concern is that these extreme views and threats are being bootstrapped to our current democrat party, which is a very centrist party...which puts us in danger of turning to the only other political alternative we have right now which is a lot more authoritarian than I think most people want.

We get 2 political parties and that blows, but the idea of the only one that is anywhere left of "very much right" being treated as the "pro people promising to molest your kids" party simply has me concerned that people wishing for politics to become a bit more centralized and logical are going to get the opposite of what they want.

If enough voters accept that one of our two political parties is pro child molestation then we are technically getting closer and closer to having 1 single party in this country.  And if intentionally incendiary trans people are going to help us get to that point, they're going to find themselves under attack and without any allies very soon.

I don't like this, and I don't like the way I fear people are going to react to it.  Making it super easy for one political party to win makes that party a breeding ground for some opportunistic and not so beneficial politicians.   

(06-28-2023, 06:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So call me crazy or a right wing nut, but no one has the right to come for my children or threaten to come after my children or my grand children.

Basically this.  We can agree that violence against people who intend to harm our children is justified, and now we're getting closer to having an entire group of people who are fair game.  And the political party that most supports them is guilty by association.  We're getting closer to giving each other a reason to accept violence against each other.

The enemy is no longer "over there" the enemy is here.  This seems pretty troublesome, but meh...what can ya do?

[*pally*]

The simple sight of a naked body will not permanently harm a child unless their parents make a big to-do about it. And those kids end up screwed up because of Mom and Dad, not because of the naked body

People say a lot of things around children that may not be appropriate. Man, can you imagine what obscenities those kids are exposed to by, I don't know, going to a professional football game? Drunken, cursing, and in some cases half-naked adults. Guess what kids get over it.

This is just another brick in the fake parental outrage supposedly about the children but is really about the adults

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-28-2023, 06:58 PM)pally Wrote: The simple sight of a naked body will not permanently harm a child unless their parents make a big to-do about it.  And those kids end up screwed up because of Mom and Dad, not because of the naked body

People say a lot of things around children that may not be appropriate.  Man, can you imagine what obscenities those kids are exposed to by, I don't know, going to a professional football game?  Drunken, cursing, and in some cases half-naked adults.  Guess what kids get over it.  

This is just another brick in the fake parental outrage supposedly about the children but is really about the adults

Would you take your kid to an event at which you knew grown men would be completely naked in front of them?