Drag March "Coming for your children"

[SunsetBengal]

(06-28-2023, 06:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: My concern is that these extreme views and threats are being bootstrapped to our current democrat party, which is a very centrist party


We get 2 political parties and that blows
 

In the post Obama era, the Democrat Party has been anything but "centrist", only the extreme progressive movement has made any headway since the Bill Clinton years. (In my point of view, anyway)

Sure, 2 parties has its drawbacks, as it's either one way or the other.  For a long time the two appeared to be mostly about the same thing, only with subtle nuances on the fiscal side.  Now, it's to the point where most of what citizens see characterized is the extreme from either side.  We do have a 3rd Party here in the US, the Libertarian Party.  Unfortunately, with the DNC and RNC controlling all of the rules as far as debates and campaign funding, good luck breaking into the mainstream.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if we're ever going to break free from the current bureaucratic duopoly that we live under, it's starts with getting rid of those "national committees" and put election funding back to the grass roots. 

[Stewy]

__________________
***Doesn't take child to inflammatory politically charged events, because not an idiot parent.***
***Filters inflammatory politically charged politically motivated content of all kinds***
***Monitors childs devices and consumed content because he gives a shyt as a parent***
***Child never wonders if a particular community is coming for them because they don't consume the content***
__________________

It is the parents responsibility to monitor their children. Governing parental oversite to protect the child is as successful as governing parental rights. If you want to blame anyone.....blame the parents. I take full responsibility for my child's actions until they are 18. Period.

As a parent, if you are not stepping up to control and monitor your child, what they consume and how they behave, then the problem is YOU. And for those of you without children, you can just S T F U now because you have no friggin clue.

[samhain]

(06-28-2023, 05:58 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, it's not.  I have gay friends and family who are concerned about the current trend in this direction.  I live in as liberal an area of the country as it gets and I consistently hear concerns about how things are going too far.  I get that it's comfortable to dismiss this as far right religious homophobia, but that's just not accurate.



This is not a very compelling argument.  There's a huge difference in what children see without permission versus what is taught to them by adults.  Kids are supposed to get away with what they can get away with.  If you disagree ask yourself this, is there a difference between a child who looks at porn on the internet without permission versus one that is allowed to do so by their parents?


Well, and sorry to Bel, this just isn't true.  The Boy Scouts could be described as such as well (and the vast, vast majority of people who participate in scouting would not fall into that category).  Note that I am not a fan of the Catholic Church at all, and they deserve way more shit then they've gotten for their role in this abuse.  But this is just a lazy "whatabout them" position.  When you have to fall back on deflecting to others it only makes your position look weak.

I have the complete opposite perspective.  I live in a Red State and the possibility of my son seeing something like this is slim and none.  On the list of things I worry about, it really doesn't register, therefore it looks pretty overblown to me.  It quite literally looks identical to the right wing arguments that Tom Hanks and Bill Gates drink baby blood and screw human-animal hybrids at adrenachrome parties.  The Qanon right has made me pretty numb to any alarmist activity from that side of the aisle, so forgive me if I don't take their word as gospel truth.  

As far as what adults choose to expose kids to, I'm not going to be put in a position to defend this if it's happening and explicit.  However, it's quite a slippery slope.  My mom's sister married a dude from Paris that had paintings of buck naked women throughout their house.  I ate Christmas dinner there from the time I was an infant until they moved out to your side of the country.  Was he abusing me?  Did my parents, knowing that the arguably explicit paintings were present, put me in a position to be groomed?  

As for whataboutism, it's hardly that.  It's apples to oranges, which is why I bring up the disparity.  The instance I gave was actual, documented, physical abuse over decades and thousands of victims.  They didn't just see a naked guy dressed up like Barbie.  They got violated by men that their community respected and protected who more or less could not be punished in any meaningful way until the bitter end.  I suppose my hang-up here is that I just don't see dozens of cases of drag queens being convicted of sexual abuse against minors.  I'm sure they exist, just based on sheer probability, but I have yet to see a correlation between the questionable parenting and an outbreak of systematic abuse.  

Drag queens are a small group of people within a minority.  They are "icky" to most traditional thinking people, therefore people are going to react and believe anything people say about them.  It's fine for them to have their opinions, but I still have yet to see evidence that these drag shows are leading to an increase in kids being sexually abused.

[samhain]

(06-28-2023, 08:09 PM)Stewy Wrote: __________________
***Doesn't take child to inflammatory politically charged events, because not an idiot parent.***
***Filters inflammatory politically charged politically motivated content of all kinds***
***Monitors childs devices and consumed content because he gives a shyt as a parent***
***Child never wonders if a particular community is coming for them because they don't consume the content***
__________________

It is the parents responsibility to monitor their children.  Governing parental oversite to protect the child is as successful as governing parental rights.  If you want to blame anyone.....blame the parents.  I take full responsibility for my child's actions until they are 18.  Period.

As a parent, if you are not stepping up to control and monitor your child, what they consume and how they behave, then the problem is YOU.  And for those of you without children, you can just S T F U now because you have no friggin clue.

I had to convince my wife to let me take my son to Bengals games when he was 8.  To be honest, he's seen and heard some shit.  Endless profanity, drunkeness, occasional violence and adults not quite acting like they do throughout the week.  Hell, he made 20 bucks when a woman next to him spilled some of her beer on his shoe and her husband felt bad about it.  I'm sure there are plenty of folks would object, but everyone isn't the same.

Shoe on the other foot, I about lost my mind when I saw a parent of a kid on his coach pitch baseball team crack open a Red Bull for her 6 year old.  

[Stewy]

(06-28-2023, 09:00 PM)samhain Wrote: I had to convince my wife to let me take my son to Bengals games when he was 8.  To be honest, he's seen and heard some shit.  Endless profanity, drunkeness, occasional violence and adults not quite acting like they do throughout the week.  Hell, he made 20 bucks when a woman next to him spilled some of her beer on his shoe and her husband felt bad about it.  I'm sure there are plenty of folks would object, but everyone isn't the same.

Shoe on the other foot, I about lost my mind when I saw a parent of a kid on his coach pitch baseball team crack open a Red Bull for her 6 year old.  

Not trying to tell others how to parent, but children are OUR responsibility, not the govt and not the media.  Tough for a child to be exposed to some things.  But you made a choice and it sounds like you are responsible for you actions.  That's all a parent can do.  We chose a more sheltered evironment for our daughter, but she was exposed to nasty humans very early on through school, but not telling those stories.

However in the case of the subject of this thread and sadly others like it, a parent can control the consumption of that content, and if they choose not to, that is onthem as a parent and not societies or the govt to fix.

[Dill]

(06-28-2023, 06:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I guess I am in the minority feeling threatening parents to come after their children is just wrong. I could care less if people want to dress in drag (as long as private body parts are covered. I don't consider myself right wing, but some of you want to label anyone that has different views right wing nuts.

I have no issue with alternate lifestyles, my brother in law was gay, we were great friends and i respected his choice.
We discuss figuring a way forward away from the hatred and divisiveness. Who believes this will be an olive branch to end the hatred? Or is just one more group trying to alienate parents who love their children and feel them, not schools or others should dictate when they are orientated into the sexual world.

As parents, these are our own individual children, not children of others as Biden likes to say. It was my responsible to control my children's life, no one else's. My wife and I educated our 3 daughters on or timeline, not someone else's timeline.

I am not a violent man, but if I feared anyone was coming for my children, they better come armed as I would put my life on the line to protect them.

So call me crazy or a right wing nut, but no one has the right to come for my children or threaten to come after my children or my grand children.

After reading the bolded, I went back and read every post here. No one has expressed an/defended a threat to "come after children."

But you somehow conclude that sharing this unanimous agreement places you in the minority.  

I don't see how you get there except by expanding a slogan shouted by one individual in a parade to represent an entire movement (whose spokespersons in the OP disavowed it), then mistaking forum members support for that movement's civil/human rights to be an endorsement of that unrepresentative slogan.

Additional note: No one labels people right wing because they have "different views." E.g., advocating the return of Native American lands  or the adoption of an Amish lifestyle is "different" (i.e., uncommon) but not explicitly right wing. 

People draw the "right wing" label in this forum by supporting right wing causes: promoting an authoritarian presidential candidate, and defending MAGA narratives about the "Biden Crime Family" and Dems weaponizing government. 

You've done all that, but don't consider yourself "right wing," though some might want to "label" you such.  

I don't mind being called left wing, even though it's usually by people who can't tell left from "leftist."*  Though a Social Democrat, I do vote Dem as the closest thing and don't turn my political views into pretzels by trying to style myself an "independent." I'm just suggesting there is no need to distance yourself from the consequences of your political commitments. If you really don't have much trouble deciding whether to vote Repub or Dem, why fudge yourself into false neutrality?

*One of the signal propaganda accomplishments of RWM is that an entire generation of Americans has grown up hearing center and even right liberal positions described as "leftist," so they absorb the term uncritically with no sense of its historical development and application.  While the label should be accurately applied to me, it has lost its descriptive power now that it has come to signify never Trumpers, any non-white form of identity politics, and the Democratic party as a whole, including leaders like Obama, Hilary, and Joe Biden.

[samhain]

(06-28-2023, 09:19 PM)Stewy Wrote: Not trying to tell others how to parent, but children are OUR responsibility, not the govt and not the media.  Tough for a child to be exposed to some things.  But you made a choice and it sounds like you are responsible for you actions.  That's all a parent can do.  We chose a more sheltered evironment for our daughter, but she was exposed to nasty humans very early on through school, but not telling those stories.

However in the case of the subject of this thread and sadly others like it, a parent can control the consumption of that content, and if they choose not to, that is onthem as a parent and not societies or the govt to fix.

Totally agree.  He'll have memories from those games that he'll hopefully tell his grandkids about, and when he does it will have little to do with the less appropriate aspects of things.  

[GMDino]

I can see why these right wingers don't like trans people/gay people "pride" thing now.  It's because they make their whole identity!



But I guess there were no naked people so it's not grooming.  I guess.

[*pally*]

It must be exhausting to be perpetually outraged over human behavior. Seriously, the right shows an equal level of outrage over little stuff such as a gay couple in a movie as they do actual real graphic horrific abuse.

Bud Light sends a single can of beer to a Trans TikTok performer and suddenly the sky is falling. Can’t drink a beer that a trans person must.
Target sells Pride merchandise and you can’t be seen there
A book tells the story of a child with 2 moms or 2 dads… ban them
A teacher teaches about a sordid, but important, piece of history and your poor baby can’t handle the truth so the entire topic must be shut down.
A child is read a story by a man in drag…run for the hills…a groomer is present. But they willingly force their child to church where he is far more likely to be groomed and abused.
Scream about parents rights as long as every parent is evangelical conservative then the government had to step in because heaven forbid let their child read the “wrong” book, or be trans, or gay.

There are outrageous people in this world. There have been since the dawn of time. Freaking out over them isn’t healthy. Naked people in the street in front of your child…tell them the adult was acting like an idiot and move on.

Yes, “coming for your children” was stupid but it was hardly earth shattering. Children hear worse. An adults job is to put that into perspective for the child instead of magnifying it out of proportion.

And before anyone dares to claim that I don’t care about kids
I care that instead of an open inclusive library that encourages reading and expanding horizons, they are being closed off for political purposes.
I care that instead of learning to respect others they are being told it is ok to marginalize those who may be different
I care that kids are being told to hide who they are so not to offend other students parents
I care that kids are being gunned down on a daily basis and the only thing being offered by conservatives is more guns ( oh and thoughts and prayers)
I care that kids leave school for a homeless shelter or inadequate housing
I care that kids aren’t getting enough healthy food to eat
I care that kids aren’t getting the physical, mental, vision, and dental healthcare they need.
I care that conservatives politicians have no ideas to solve the real problems facing children and families so they continually throw up hubris to distract from that reality.

Children have the right to learn everything and anything they desire…even if it may differ from what mom and dad want. They are individuals not a puppy.

We hear a lot about American exceptionalism. What makes America exceptional is the freedom to think what we want and be what we want. That’s what I want for our kids

[Mickeypoo]

(06-28-2023, 06:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I guess I am in the minority feeling threatening parents to come after their children is just wrong. I could care less if people want to dress in drag (as long as private body parts are covered. I don't consider myself right wing, but some of you want to label anyone that has different views right wing nuts.

I have no issue with alternate lifestyles, my brother in law was gay, we were great friends and i respected his choice.
We discuss figuring a way forward away from the hatred and divisiveness. Who believes this will be an olive branch to end the hatred? Or is just one more group trying to alienate parents who love their children and feel them, not schools or others should dictate when they are orientated into the sexual world.

As parents, these are our own individual children, not children of others as Biden likes to say. It was my responsible to control my children's life, no one else's. My wife and I educated our 3 daughters on or timeline, not someone else's timeline.

I am not a violent man, but if I feared anyone was coming for my children, they better come armed as I would put my life on the line to protect them.

So call me crazy or a right wing nut, but no one has the right to come for my children or threaten to come after my children or my grand children.

Great post!  I pretty much feel the same way.

[Matt_Crimson]

(06-28-2023, 02:13 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes, but that's also why it such a bad tactic. 

Wanting them to react as they assumed they would only confirms what masses of MAGA/DeSantis supporters
already want to believe. They;re not inclined to process irony, intended or otherwise.

And we can't be sure how independents will respond--the ones who will likely decide the election. Most are probably still fearful of MAGA, but this could produce
some voter hesitation if it continues. 

I think you hit it on the head here Dill.

Sometimes playing "gotcha" will get YOU instead. Both the left and the right seem to have this idea that whenever the other side is outraged by something it's a good idea to make a mockery of the issue, not realizing that by doing so you can alienate the votes of the people who are sitting on the fence about things. 

And I'd even go a step further than you and say it's not just independents that can be effected by this. It can be people within your own party that goes "Yeah...uhh.... this is starting to be just a little too much for me".

[Mickeypoo]

(06-28-2023, 06:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It is wrong.  My concern is that these extreme views and threats are being bootstrapped to our current democrat party, which is a very centrist party...which puts us in danger of turning to the only other political alternative we have right now which is a lot more authoritarian than I think most people want.

We get 2 political parties and that blows, but the idea of the only one that is anywhere left of "very much right" being treated as the "pro people promising to molest your kids" party simply has me concerned that people wishing for politics to become a bit more centralized and logical are going to get the opposite of what they want.

If enough voters accept that one of our two political parties is pro child molestation then we are technically getting closer and closer to having 1 single party in this country.  And if intentionally incendiary trans people are going to help us get to that point, they're going to find themselves under attack and without any allies very soon.

I don't like this, and I don't like the way I fear people are going to react to it.  Making it super easy for one political party to win makes that party a breeding ground for some opportunistic and not so beneficial politicians.   



Basically this.  We can agree that violence against people who intend to harm our children is justified, and now we're getting closer to having an entire group of people who are fair game.  And the political party that most supports them is guilty by association.  We're getting closer to giving each other a reason to accept violence against each other.

The enemy is no longer "over there" the enemy is here.  This seems pretty troublesome, but meh...what can ya do?

Not to change the subject, but was curious if you could elaborate on bolded part of your post.  I see it get thrown around a lot and as an Independent I am curious, because what I see in life does not match that.

Being in NY, I see the Dem party as the ones who are over the top authoritarian.  The Dem party wants to ban ICE vehicles, ban heat sources, appliances, ultra restrictive gun laws, get rid of fossil fuels, force an experimental vax, forced masking, forced lockdowns, vax passports, etc, etc.   That's all coming from the Left.  ESG scores, CRT in schools, people chanting we are coming for your children, all on the Left.

What authoritarian policies are you referring to that would be on the Right?

[GMDino]

(06-28-2023, 11:31 PM)pally Wrote: It must be exhausting to be perpetually outraged over human behavior.  Seriously, the right shows an equal level of outrage over little stuff such as a gay couple in a movie as they do actual real graphic horrific abuse.

Bud Light sends a single can of beer to a Trans TikTok performer and suddenly the sky is falling. Can’t drink a beer that a trans person must.
Target sells Pride merchandise and you can’t be seen there
A book tells the story of a child with 2 moms or 2 dads… ban them
A teacher teaches about a sordid, but important, piece of history and your poor baby can’t handle the truth so the entire topic must be shut down.
A child is read a story by a man in drag…run for the hills…a groomer is present.  But they willingly force their child to church where he is far more likely to be groomed and abused.
Scream about parents rights as long as every parent is evangelical conservative then the government had to step in because heaven forbid let their child read the “wrong” book, or be trans, or gay.

There are outrageous people in this world.  There have been since the dawn of time.  Freaking out over them isn’t healthy.  Naked people in the street in front of your child…tell them the adult was acting like an idiot and move on.  

Yes, “coming for your children” was stupid but it was hardly earth shattering.  Children hear worse.  An adults job is to put that into perspective for the child instead of magnifying it out of proportion.

And before anyone dares to claim that I don’t care about kids
I care that instead of an open inclusive library that encourages reading and expanding horizons, they are being closed off for political purposes.
I care that instead of learning to respect others they are being told it is ok to marginalize those who may be different
I care that kids are being told to hide who they are so not to offend other students parents
I care that kids are being gunned down on a daily basis and the only thing being offered by conservatives is more guns ( oh and thoughts and prayers)
I care that kids leave school for a homeless shelter or inadequate housing
I care that kids aren’t getting enough healthy food to eat
I care that kids aren’t getting the physical, mental, vision, and dental healthcare they need.
I care that conservatives politicians have no ideas to solve the real problems facing children and families so they continually throw up hubris to distract from that reality.

Children have the right to learn everything and anything they desire…even if it may differ from what mom and dad want. They are individuals not a puppy.

We hear a lot about American exceptionalism.  What makes America exceptional is the freedom to think what we want and be what we want.  That’s what I want for our kids

I agree with you and you can't be much more clear than this.  Now someone will come along to explain why your wrong...lol.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2023, 08:48 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Not to change the subject, but was curious if you could elaborate on bolded part of your post.  I see it get thrown around a lot and as an Independent I am curious, because what I see in life does not match that.

The short version is that the current GOP is promoting the will of the few over the will of the people when it comes to government.  Removing duly elected politicians like Liz Cheney, Zooey Zephyr, Justin Jones, and Justin Pearson for various perceived offences they've caused.  Claiming that voters aged 18-24 need to have their right to vote revoked. Attempting to foster a system of democracy where a handful of electors for a state can ignore the will of the people via the vote totals and cast their EC votes for the candidate who lost the statewide election.  Casting doubt upon the legitimacy of actual democratically elected policies, and so on

My simple view is that the GOP is making it look pretty appealing to reduce the amount of power the people have, because most of the people don't want what they declare is the right thing...and if most people don't want the right thing then you have to have a strong leader who will enforce the law and protect the citizens from what they don't even realize is dangerous.

You have issues with a list of policies, but you also have the freedom to vote for politicians who don't support those things.  When you are a political party that says that people shouldn't always have the right to do so, you're the authoritarian leaning one, in my eyes.  So this isn't about specific policy, it's about one side making it very palatable for people to agree to yield power as long as they are convinced the representation of the few will suit their desires in the short-term.


The GOP is currently led by someone whose main statement is that our democracy is rigged and flawed and causing our country to elect people who will ruin this country, rather than appointing people who will save it.  Sure, the GOP can pretend it's fair to just "make" Trump the president, etc, but that doesn't mean they're on the side of democracy.  It's a smokescreen and if you push it, people will admit that democracy giving us Joe Biden just means that democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be.

FINAL EDIT - The GOP has admitted that when people vote, they lose.  They need to change this country to accept the will of the view over the powerful few of the majority since they can't seem to change their views and policies to win the votes of the many.

[BengalYankee]

(06-28-2023, 07:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Would you take your kid to an event at which you knew grown men would be completely naked in front of them?  

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2023, 01:20 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:

This is what passed for wholesome family entertainment in my day.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-29-2023, 01:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is what passed for wholesome family entertainment in my day.

And it wasn't until I was older that I fully understood what Popeye the Sailor truly meant whenever he said "Well blow me down"..

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2023, 01:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And it wasn't until I was older that I fully understood what Popeye the Sailor truly meant whenever he said "Well blow me down"..

Insert Popeye laugh here.  Do you think his spinach abuse shrunk his balls?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-28-2023, 09:38 PM)Dill Wrote: After reading the bolded, I went back and read every post here. No one has expressed an/defended a threat to "come after children."

But you somehow conclude that sharing this unanimous agreement places you in the minority.  

I don't see how you get there except by expanding a slogan shouted by one individual in a parade to represent an entire movement (whose spokespersons in the OP disavowed it), then mistaking forum members support for that movement's civil/human rights to be an endorsement of that unrepresentative slogan.

Additional note: No one labels people right wing because they have "different views." E.g., advocating the return of Native American lands  or the adoption of an Amish lifestyle is "different" (i.e., uncommon) but not explicitly right wing. 

People draw the "right wing" label in this forum by supporting right wing causes: promoting an authoritarian presidential candidate, and defending MAGA narratives about the "Biden Crime Family" and Dems weaponizing government. 

You've done all that, but don't consider yourself "right wing," though some might want to "label" you such.  

I don't mind being called left wing, even though it's usually by people who can't tell left from "leftist."*  Though a Social Democrat, I do vote Dem as the closest thing and don't turn my political views into pretzels by trying to style myself an "independent." I'm just suggesting there is no need to distance yourself from the consequences of your political commitments. If you really don't have much trouble deciding whether to vote Repub or Dem, why fudge yourself into false neutrality?

*One of the signal propaganda accomplishments of RWM is that an entire generation of Americans has grown up hearing center and even right liberal positions described as "leftist," so they absorb the term uncritically with no sense of its historical development and application.  While the label should be accurately applied to me, it has lost its descriptive power now that it has come to signify never Trumpers, any non-white form of identity politics, and the Democratic party as a whole, including leaders like Obama, Hilary, and Joe Biden.

I'm glad SOMEONE said it, 'cause I was going to post that 3 members of this board have *explicitly* stated that they are not Right Wing... and proceed to base their entire posts and everything, on right wing propaganda and right wing-related, "news." 2 in this thread, at that.

It's almost as if the qualifier is stated because they know that there's an inherent issue with being right wing and they choose to go against their better judgement. Something like, "I don't drink and drive, but I will be sure to head to the bar tonight to celebrate something/be miserable and then get home later on..."

I mean, people like Brad and he who shalL not bE mentiONed are PROUD to be right wingers and are not shy about, "what side they're on," so why hide from the facade of, "unaffiliated," or whatever, when your actions prove you're nothing but?

Just goes to show that humans will continue (just as they have for centuries) to simply lie to themselves, which is the tip of the iceberg of a whole mountain of other issues...

(06-28-2023, 10:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: I can see why these right wingers don't like trans people/gay people "pride" thing now.  It's because they make their whole identity!



But I guess there were no naked people so it's not grooming.  I guess.

These satirical pieces are absolutely wonderful and a perfectly well-done look on how people speak out of both sides of their mouth.

[Lucidus]

If the outrage concerning the perceived grooming and targeting of children is genuine in this subforum, one should be able to find ongoing discussions about the actual, verified patterns of such instances, such as the never ending cases of clergy members not only grooming and targeting children, but actually abusing them physically and mentally. 

It seems these discussions rarely get touched upon though, even though clergy members are getting arrested, prosecuted and convicted on a daily basis in this country. However, there is no outrage. Instead, the clergy community just keeps actually doing the very things the drag / transgender communities are being accused of.

I find it very hard to take the outrage seriously when a blind eye is turned and voices are silent in regards to very real and demonstrable grooming, targeting and abuse that happens every day in churches, youth groups, religious schools, etc. across the US and the world. 

Why is that topic, that outrage, almost nonexistent in this subforum, and usually gets dismissed when it is brought up? Why is it that the outage is so unproportionate? Perhaps those asserting transgender grooming and targeting on a daily basis in this subforum could explain?