Drag March "Coming for your children"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 03:20 AM)hollodero Wrote: Sorry to possibly annoy you a bit now, but that is not fair. The first post might be easily misunderstood, but then it was clarified to you why the pregnant 10-year-old was mentioned, to show how early puberty can begin. "The point is 10 year old children can get pregnant". Which is true and fits the rest of the argument made.
Why not just accept this clarification instead of continuing to make this allegation. It seems uncalled for.

You are correct in that it's probably best to accept the denial and move on.  Any person who menstruates can get pregnant, this was never in dispute.  But, and I'm sorry I can't let this go entirely, to state a child being raped at 10 years old to "10 years old's are having sex" is a bridge too damned far for me.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 11:03 AM)pally Wrote: Sexual harassment is often a precursor to more aggressive sexual behavior or becomes a lifelong habit.  But it is also a sign that acting out around sexual matters starts early and needs to be dealt with at the time not when some person decides the child is "old" enough

Because not every child lives in circumstances where parents are capable of teaching them about the human body, sex, sexual behavior. or sexual health.  So no, in my experience, most children do not get adequate education in these areas by their parents.  The real world is vastly different than the fantasy world of conservatives

Sex is not a dirty little secret.  It is normal human behavior.  The more educated the child the less likely they are to participate in early sex.  And when they do , they are more likely to take proper precautions against pregnancy and STDs.

This is really "the state knows better than parents" in a costume.  There is a very curious attempt to erode parental autonomy by the modern left and one wonders about the agenda behind it.  School can, and should, provide parents with suggested materials and lesson plans so they can properly address this issue with their children.  The schools should absolutely not have literal children participating in sexual education.  Now, if the school's notify parents about the lessons and allow them to opt their child out of them, with a full disclosure of the topics that will be discussed, then that would be fine.  But is that what's happening?  Many parents don't seem to think so.

[*pally*]

(07-01-2023, 11:51 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is really "the state knows better than parents" in a costume.  There is a very curious attempt to erode parental autonomy by the modern left and one wonders about the agenda behind it.  School can, and should, provide parents with suggested materials and lesson plans so they can properly address this issue with their children.  The schools should absolutely not have literal children participating in sexual education.  Now, if the school's notify parents about the lessons and allow them to opt their child out of them, with a full disclosure of the topics that will be discussed, then that would be fine.  But is that what's happening?  Many parents don't seem to think so.

 Parents aren't locked out of the discussions.  They of course have their roles.  But you are seeing things from your reality and not the reality that millions of children all over this country deal with.  These kids lack parents who are capable and willing to properly discuss factual information surrounding sex.

Parents, in virtually every district, have access to teaching materials, especially for sex ed.

My agenda isn't complicated or hidden
-provide children with facts so that they understand how their bodies work
-provide children with facts so they can treat themselves and others more respectfully
-provide children with facts so that they can make better choices surrounding sexual activity

The morality surrounding sex belongs to the parents...facts belong in schools

[GMDino]

Let's face it, most of us didn't get OUR sex education from our parents no matter how great they were.

Most of us didn't get it from our schools either...especially those of us who went to Catholic school.

Kids are getting this info from each other...just like we did...only now they have the internet too.

The push to get rid of sex education in schools is tied to the right's fear of ANYTHING sexual.  They are the ones who say girls can't have their shoulders exposed for fear of distracting the boys.  they are the ones pushing for dress codes, for girls only of course, so they can maintain their "modesty".  They rail against anything they consider "indecent" in the media in the name of "protecting the children".  

Yet they are the mostly likely to be charged and convicted of abuse of children.

They want to "make America Great Again" back when men could keep women and girls in their place and men and boys can do as they please.

So they fight against abortions, they fight against contraception, they fight against no fault divorces.

They want to roll back any advanced women have made so we can get back to "the good old days".

Fortunately our kids generation see that for what it is.  So while the pendulum is swinging away from protecting anyone not a white male Christian is will swing back when these old, angry men starting shuffling off this mortal coil.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 12:28 PM)pally Wrote:  Parents aren't locked out of the discussions.  They of course have their roles.  But you are seeing things from your reality and not the reality that millions of children all over this country deal with.  These kids lack parents who are capable and willing to properly discuss factual information surrounding sex.

Who are you, or anyone else, to determine this?  Is this done on a case by case basis?  No, it is not.  Dress it up however you want, but what your advocating for is the elimination of parental discretion in what there children are exposed to.

Quote:Parents, in virtually every district, have access to teaching materials, especially for sex ed.

Who said they didn't?  I said schools can provide guidance in this regard.  I did not say parents have zero access to materials without the school's assistance.

Quote:My agenda isn't complicated or hidden
-provide children with facts so that they understand how their bodies work
-provide children with facts so they can treat themselves and others more respectfully
-provide children with facts so that they can make better choices surrounding sexual activity

And who gets to decide what is contained within those facts?  There are many facts that children are not ready to be exposed to.  Should they be shown a porno and told this is how vaginal intercourse works?  I doubt you'd advocate for that, but it would be factual.  I worked with abused children at a group home in my early twenties and the damage done to children who were exposed to sexual material at a young age was immense.

Quote:The morality surrounding sex belongs to the parents...facts belong in schools

Again, what facts?  Simply stating you're giving children facts says nothing as to the actual content.  I'll reiterate, there are some facts children are not ready for, and its the parent's job to determine when they are ready, not the state.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 12:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: Let's face it, most of us didn't get OUR sex education from our parents no matter how great they were.

Most of us didn't get it from our schools either...especially those of us who went to Catholic school.

Kids are getting this info from each other...just like we did...only now they have the internet too.

The push to get rid of sex education in schools is tied to the right's fear of ANYTHING sexual.  They are the ones who say girls can't have their shoulders exposed for fear of distracting the boys.  they are the ones pushing for dress codes, for girls only of course, so they can maintain their "modesty".  They rail against anything they consider "indecent" in the media in the name of "protecting the children".  

Yet they are the mostly likely to be charged and convicted of abuse of children.

They want to "make America Great Again" back when men could keep women and girls in their place and men and boys can do as they please.

So they fight against abortions, they fight against contraception, they fight against no fault divorces.

They want to roll back any advanced women have made so we can get back to "the good old days".

Fortunately our kids generation see that for what it is.  So while the pendulum is swinging away from protecting anyone not a white male Christian is will swing back when these old, angry men starting shuffling off this mortal coil.

Congratulations, you broke the board record for number of strawmen in one post.  Who knew that not being cool with elementary aged children being exposed to sexual topics was directly linked to so many regressive movements?  It's amazing how much you generalize about groups of people, all the while crying about the same conduct if anyone else even dips their toe in that water.

[GMDino]

(07-01-2023, 12:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Who are you, or anyone else, to determine this?  Is this done on a case by case basis?  No, it is not.  Dress it up however you want, but what your advocating for is the elimination of parental discretion in what there children are exposed to.



Who said they didn't?  I said schools can provide guidance in this regard.  I did not say parents have zero access to materials without the school's assistance.



And who gets to decide what is contained within those facts?  There are many facts that children are not ready to be exposed to.  Should they be shown a porno and told this is how vaginal intercourse works?  I doubt you'd advocate for that, but it would be factual.  I worked with abused children at a group home in my early twenties and the damage done to children who were exposed to sexual material at a young age was immense.


Again, what facts?  Simply stating you're giving children facts says nothing as to the actual content.  I'll reiterate, there are some facts children are not ready for, and its the parent's job to determine when they are ready, not the state.  

Educators work on these things.  They work to provide what they believe is best for the majority of students based on their studies and their background.

What you seem to be thinking is that the ex education materials are handled like the history materials where legislatures and "moms for liberty" get to decided what is in the books no matter what the group of educators believe.

If we allowed the people with the experience to provide the information it would be better for everyone all around.

Or we could just pretend sexual assaults are happening because the right is afraid of genitals.

Whatever.

[GMDino]

(07-01-2023, 12:55 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Congratulations, you broke the board record for number of strawmen in one post.  Who knew that not being cool with elementary aged children being exposed to sexual topics was directly linked to so many regressive movements?  It's amazing how much you generalize about groups of people, all the while crying about the same conduct if anyone else even dips their toe in that water.

I must have struck a nerve. You didn't even bloviate once or break down how I was "wrong" in each sentence.

Cry more.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 12:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: Educators work on these things.  They work to provide what they believe is best for the majority of students based on their studies and their background.

Sure, and if you don't agree with them, then what?  Too bad mom and dad, the experts have spoken.  If the pandemic taught us anything it's that appeal to expertise is rarely a good thing.  

Quote:What you seem to be thinking is that the ex education materials are handled like the history materials where legislatures and "moms for liberty" get to decided what is in the books no matter what the group of educators believe.

Again with your mind reading trick.  One needn't guess at what I'm saying, because I'm flat out saying it.  This topic is one for parents to decide, not the state.  Again, if you allowed parent's to opt their children out then I'd have no problem.  I'd also say that the school should provide the lesson plans to parents so they can make an informed decision on whether their child should participate.  Making any of this mandatory for elementary aged children is an unacceptable usurpation of parental rights.

Quote:If we allowed the people with the experience to provide the information it would be better for everyone all around.

It is truly interesting how your acceptance of the "experts" only applies to topics you agree on.  Gun rights, no expertise needed.  I could go on, but anyone reading this will be able to form their own list.

Quote:Or we could just pretend sexual assaults are happening because the right is afraid of genitals.

Whatever.

Whaaaa? 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 12:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: I must have struck a nerve.  You didn't even bloviate once or break down how I was "wrong" in each sentence.

Cry more.

Awww, you're getting upset again.  It is amusing that you're actually commenting on the fact that I typically respond on a point by point basis like that's a bad thing.  

[GMDino]

(07-01-2023, 01:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure, and if you don't agree with them, then what?  Too bad mom and dad, the experts have spoken.  If the pandemic taught us anything it's that appeal to expertise is rarely a good thing.  



Again with your mind reading trick.  One needn't guess at what I'm saying, because I'm flat out saying it.  This topic is one for parents to decide, not the state.  Again, if you allowed parent's to opt their children out then I'd have no problem.  I'd also say that the school should provide the lesson plans to parents so they can make an informed decision on whether their child should participate.  Making any of this mandatory for elementary aged children is an unacceptable usurpation of parental rights.



It is truly interesting how your acceptance of the "experts" only applies to topics you agree on.  Gun rights, no expertise needed.  I could go on, but anyone reading this will be able to form their own list.


Whaaaa? 

Actually I'll stick with the experts on most subjects. But "again with your mind reading trick".

Parents do have a say, never said they didn't.

For example my daughter went to catholic school until 6th grade.  One day she told me about global warming and how the polar bears were dying.  We talked about where she heard that (school) and I told her there were different opinions on it and that what I had read and believed and that she didn't need to accept everything in school as 100% true.

See how easy that was?

Now if you want the Hitler quoting "moms for liberty" deciding what is taught in school that's on you.  I'll take any expert over them because they have a well stated agenda.

I believe you do not have children, at least you've never mentioned any, but I would not tell you that you shouldn't have an opinion about these things just because of that.  I will say you would have no real world experience in dealing with schools/parents teaching when it comes to what our children need to learn and where they need to get the information from.

It's you flat out statement that schools have no business teaching anything sex related to children that is wrong.  Especially when it comes to the safet of the children.

[GMDino]

(07-01-2023, 01:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Awww, you're getting upset again.  It is amusing that you're actually commenting on the fact that I typically respond on a point by point basis like that's a bad thing.  

lol...I thought you "literally don't care for me at all" and there you go being all warm and fuzzy.

But no, when you skip points and don't bloviate I know I'm right and you need time to make up some "solid" reasons why I'm not.

I've got a four-day weekend and I'd rather not sit here and argue about something neither of us controls and that you are wrong about.

Go walk the dog.  You'll feel better.

[Luvnit2]

(07-01-2023, 01:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: lol...I thought you "literally don't care for me at all" and there you go being all warm and fuzzy.

But no, when you skip points and don't bloviate I know I'm right and you need time to make up some "solid" reasons why I'm not.

I've got a four-day weekend and I'd rather not sit here and argue about something neither of us controls and that you are wrong about.

Go walk the dog.  You'll feel better.

I don't get the argument parents are uneducated or not as educated as teachers. What makes a teacher a sex expert? What makes a teacher a parenting expert? What authority does have to parent others children?

I keep hearing Biden and others use an offensive term "our children". No, my children are not the children of others. The government needs to respect parents and not degrade them and lump them all as uneducated or lacking of skills to know and do what is best for their children.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 01:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: lol...I thought you "literally don't care for me at all" and there you go being all warm and fuzzy.

I believe I said you mean nothing to me.  That stands.

Quote:But no, when you skip points and don't bloviate I know I'm right and you need time to make up some "solid" reasons why I'm not.

Hey dude, whatever gets you through the day.  Typically, when people are correct I will state as such.  I think it's even happened with you once or twice.  

Quote:I've got a four-day weekend and I'd rather not sit here and argue about something neither of us controls and that you are wrong about.

Go walk the dog.  You'll feel better.

Enjoy your weekend and your self assertions of how correct you are.  

[samhain]

(07-01-2023, 01:43 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't get the argument parents are uneducated or not as educated as teachers. What makes a teacher a sex expert? What makes a teacher a parenting expert? What authority does have to parent others children?

I keep hearing Biden and others use an offensive term "our children". No, my children are not the children of others. The government needs to respect parents and not degrade them and lump them all as uneducated or lacking of skills to know and do what is best for their children.

Then homeschool them if you're not some brokie loser.  Like it or not, kids are going to school with other kids that have parents that don't have the same views on what should or shouldn't be taught as you.  I know it's hard to believe that everyone might not agree with your supreme wisdom, but sadly, this is the reality.  

It's not hard.  Kids go to school with other kids.  They don't all have the same parents.  Therefore "our" kids.  Are you really that dense?

[Mickeypoo]

(07-01-2023, 01:43 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't get the argument parents are uneducated or not as educated as teachers. What makes a teacher a sex expert? What makes a teacher a parenting expert? What authority does have to parent others children?

I keep hearing Biden and others use an offensive term "our children". No, my children are not the children of others. The government needs to respect parents and not degrade them and lump them all as uneducated or lacking of skills to know and do what is best for their children.

Somrthing else I have not seen anyone touch on is what certain kids are exposed to and know and at what age.  There are plenty of younger kids running around my neighborhood that live in single parent homes, are mostly unsupervised and have older siblings or friends.

At any givin age there is a whole spectrum to what a child has been exposed to and what a child is ready to learn in regards to sex, gender, etc.

I have to agree, the "our children" is some seriously ridiculous bs!

[*pally*]

(07-01-2023, 12:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Who are you, or anyone else, to determine this?  Is this done on a case by case basis?  No, it is not.  Dress it up however you want, but what your advocating for is the elimination of parental discretion in what there children are exposed to.

who are you to determine this?  if you want your kids to remain ignorant that is your choice as a parent.  Homeschool them, send them to private school but public schools serve ALL children not just yours.  The job of public schools is to educate a child not to teach them YOUR morals, religious, or political beliefs.  Those things are your job as a parent
I never said parents didn't get a say...that's why they elect school boards.  They also have the ability to see all teaching materials and in every school district, they can opt their child out of specific lessons.
Keeping your child ignorant of the real world is a disservice to them but hey whatever floats your boat

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 04:39 PM)pally Wrote: who are you to determine this?

Who are you?

Quote:  if you want your kids to remain ignorant that is your choice as a parent.  Homeschool them, send them to private school but public schools serve ALL children not just yours.  The job of public schools is to educate a child not to teach them YOUR morals, religious, or political beliefs.  Those things are your job as a parent
I never said parents didn't get a say...that's why they elect school boards.  They also have the ability to see all teaching materials and in every school district, they can opt their child out of specific lessons.
Keeping your child ignorant of the real world is a disservice to them but hey whatever floats your boat

And here you go.  Don't question, just conform.  Most people can't afford to homeschool or send their kids to private school.  Not much of a leap from this to taking away your children if you don't follow the state's guidelines.  Please never question why the modern left is constantly accused of indoctrinating children.  Have them join the Junior Spies next. If you don't you're doing them a disservice.

[*pally*]

(07-01-2023, 04:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Who are you?


And here you go.  Don't question, just conform.  Most people can't afford to homeschool or send their kids to private school.  Not much of a leap from this to taking away your children if you don't follow the state's guidelines.  Please never question why the modern left is constantly accused of indoctrinating children.  Have them join the Junior Spies next. If you don't you're doing them a disservice.

Indoctrinating children to what? Conservatives love throwing that word around but what are you afraid of...your children learning that not everybody thinks the way they do?  that people who are different from them deserve respect? that they won't go to hell if they are gay?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 05:11 PM)pally Wrote: Indoctrinating children to what?

To whatever the "experts" agree on, parents be damned!

Quote:Conservatives love throwing that word around but what are you afraid of...your children learning that not everybody thinks the way they do?  that people who are different from them deserve respect? that they won't go to hell if they are gay?

Oh, is that what's being taught now?  Because up until this point we've been talking about sexual education.  I take back my post to Hollo, you definitely don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.  You literally claimed a 10 year old was sexually active and ended up pregnant when, in fact, they were raped by an adult.  Your position, and points, are odious.

The state knows best, parental rights be damned.  Parents don't know what's best for their kids, the state does.  Seriously, just wow.  In my youth I never thought I'd see a day in the US when the left was the ideology of totalitarianism.