I can’t copy this properly and post the entire article. If someone else could I would appreciate. Thanks in advance.
Quote:The Permanent Structured Cooperation, or PESCO, could be the biggest leap in EU defence policy in decades and may go some way to matching the bloc’s economic and trade prowess with a more powerful military.
EU leaders hail ‘historic step’ in defence cooperation
EU leaders hailed as “historic” the decision taken at the Council summit on Thursday (22 June) to establish permanent European defence cooperation. French President Emmanuel Macron, for whom this is the first EU summit, praised Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker for his role as architect of the project.
But differences remain between Paris and Berlin over what countries legally bound by the pact should do, EU diplomats said.
France wanted a core group of governments to bring money and military assets to PESCO as well as a willingness to intervene abroad. Germany has sought to broaden the pact to make it inclusive, which some experts say could make it less effective.
This does not create an EU army. This is a framework for cooperation among EU member states with regards to defense and security, allowing them to work jointly on projects that member states deem beneficial and a priority for the EU. Each military remains independent within its sovereign state.
(11-13-2017, 01:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This does not create an EU army. This is a framework for cooperation among EU member states with regards to defense and security, allowing them to work jointly on projects that member states deem beneficial and a priority for the EU. Each military remains independent within its sovereign state.
Quote:At least 20 members of the European Union will next week sign up to a new defence pact, heavily promoted by France and Germany, to fund and develop joint military hardware in a show of unity following Britain’s decision to quit the bloc.
After years of spending cutbacks in Europe and a heavy reliance on the United States through the NATO alliance, France and Germany hope the accord, to be signed on 13 November in Brussels, will tie nations into tighter defence collaboration covering troops and weapons.
The Permanent Structured Cooperation, or PESCO, could be the biggest leap in EU defence policy in decades and may go some way to matching the bloc’s economic and trade prowess with a more powerful military.
But differences remain between Paris and Berlin over what countries legally bound by the pact should do, EU diplomats said.
France wanted a core group of governments to bring money and military assets to PESCO as well as a willingness to intervene abroad. Germany has sought to broaden the pact to make it inclusive, which some experts say could make it less effective.
“This has to bring about a higher level of commitment if it is going to work,” said an EU official, describing PESCO as a ‘defence marriage’. “The EU already has plenty of forums for discussion,” the official said.
So far France, Germany, Italy, Spain and around 16 other EU countries have pledged to join the pact, which could formally be launched when EU leaders meet in December. Some other members, including Denmark, Portugal and Malta, have yet to commit themselves publicly.
But it was clear that Britain, which intends to leave the bloc following the Brexit referendum of June 2016, would not participate, officials said. Britain has long sought to block EU defence cooperation, fearing it could lead to the development of an EU army.
French diplomats said the pact would have several areas where EU governments would agree to work together and pledge funds, including EU military operations, investment and acquiring defence capabilities together as a group.
A German official said the initiative won momentum from French President Emmanuel Macron’s call for a European intervention force in September and US President Donald Trump’s insistence that Europe do more for its security.
Proposals for PESCO include work on a European medical command and a network of logistics hubs in Europe, the creation of a European Crisis Response centre, and joint training of military officers.
One of the goals is to reduce the number of weapons systems and prevent duplication to save money and improve joint operations.
It could also serve as an umbrella for projects such as a Franco-German initiative to design a new fighter jet, and existing bilateral military cooperation agreements, such as the close ties between Germany and the Netherlands.
Military ‘Schengen’
Efforts under the pact will be closely coordinated with the US-led NATO alliance to ensure transparency and avoid any redundancies, the German official said.
One area where NATO and EU officials see common ground is in creating a military zone for free movement of troops and equipment, loosely based on the EU’s passport-free travel “Schengen” zone.
“This will not happen in competition with NATO,” a German official said. The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation would focus on collective defence, while PESCO would ensure a quicker and more efficient EU response to events like the 2014 Ebola crisis in Africa, the official said.
(11-13-2017, 01:24 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah I can do that.
My comment: Good.
I usually ignore links Lucie posts, deciding instead to search for a source that is less editorialized than I assume has been provided. Interesting that this source lays some of the blame, for lack of a better word, as the feet of Trump.
(11-13-2017, 01:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Only those units working on the collaborative projects. The EU will not just have control over the entire military of the member states.
For now. Don’t forget the EU was originally supposed to be only a trade union. Now they are forming an army.
(11-13-2017, 01:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I usually ignore links Lucie posts, deciding instead to search for a source that is less editorialized than I assume has been provided. Interesting that this source lays some of the blame, for lack of a better word, as the feet of Trump.
Trump sure was a wake up call for Europe. Relying on the US is no longer a long-term solution, and it shouldn't be. (I know that the article's "blame" focusses on a different aspect, but this is the initial "blame" as I see it.)
About Mr. Lucie, I have no idea what this is all about. If Germany does nothing to ramp up its own defense, Trump hands out bills with interest to Merkel. If Germany sets steps as demanded to be more independent of US defense spending, people like Mr. Lucie cry foul and promote allying with Putin's Russia to oppose a democratic country. Doesn't make too much sense, it's either this or that (and preferring Putin over European demoocracies doesn't make much sense in the first place).
(11-13-2017, 01:33 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: For now. Don’t forget the EU was originally supposed to be only a trade union. Now they are forming an army.
That is the prerogative of the member states to evolve the union as they see fit.
(11-13-2017, 01:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Ofc you like it. You come from a weak country. You guys are used to laying down for the Germans
The Brits dodged a bullet.
The Brits can't even get their withdrawal negotiations going. As it looks now, this will end quite badly for GB.
As for me being from a weak country... that is true. As it is now, I prefer a joint European effort we can actually contribute to (we do not and that's a shame) to take care of us and our continent. Relying on Trump's USA is no longer a viable alternative for weak countries as mine.
(11-13-2017, 01:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: A lot of member states are being forced into things now. Would you be In favor of allowing each member a referendum on EU membership?
I think member states should always be allowed such an option, and they are by EU rules.
I'm fine with Europe having a stronger military however it comes about. Isn't that what we've been asking for?
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
(11-13-2017, 02:40 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm fine with Europe having a stronger military however it comes about. Isn't that what we've been asking for?
A German led European army? Last couple of times the Germans had a military it didn’t go so well for the world.
The EU is just saving them time from conquering those nations.
(11-13-2017, 02:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: A German led European army? Last couple of times the Germans had a military it didn’t go so well for the world.
The EU is just saving them time from conquering those nations.
It's not the same now as then. Our military is light years ahead of where we were in 1939 comparatively speaking.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
(11-13-2017, 02:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It's not the same now as then. Our military is light years ahead of where we were in 1939 comparatively speaking.
So bloc’s of nations forming armies is a good thing? I guess we have all forgotten about the USSR.
There is no threat where an EU army is needed. The Russians aren’t marching into Europe.
All this is doing to consolidating power under the Germans. And their patsies.... The French.
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