Easter

[Belsnickel]

(04-01-2016, 01:35 AM)Vlad Wrote: Interesting that you touched on the Passion of Christ, but nothing about the main reason you attend mass on Easter...you know, to celebrate the resurrection from the dead your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

You do believe Christ rose from the dead right?

This was my first Easter at a liturgical church. I definitely found it interesting that there was no mention of the suffering on Easter, it was entirely about the resurrection. Definitely was not the case in the churches I grew up in.

[GMDino]

(04-01-2016, 01:35 AM)Vlad Wrote: Interesting that you touched on the Passion of Christ, but nothing about the main reason you attend mass on Easter...you know, to celebrate the resurrection from the dead your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

You do believe Christ rose from the dead right?

That's why I said "beyond that the message is wonderful".  The story of redemption and salvation is why we celebrated.  Everything the 2-3 days before is make rising from the dead seem even MORE miraculous.  Overkill.

(04-01-2016, 07:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This was my first Easter at a liturgical church. I definitely found it interesting that there was no mention of the suffering on Easter, it was entirely about the resurrection. Definitely was not the case in the churches I grew up in.

I don't know if you listen to the "Fatman on Batman" podcasts, but I'm listening to Kevin Smith review BVSDOJ and he agreed with me that seeing the Wayne's killed (again) was not needed at all...but he said that story is so well know it would be like someone asking  if Jesus was crucified or not.  

[Belsnickel]

(04-01-2016, 08:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't know if you listen to the "Fatman on Batman" podcasts, but I'm listening to Kevin Smith review BVSDOJ and he agreed with me that seeing the Wayne's killed (again) was not needed at all...but he said that story is so well know it would be like someone asking  if Jesus was crucified or not.  

So in my old job I used to be able to sit around with earbuds in and just crunch numbers all day. This resulted in me listening to S.I.R. all day every day, and it was great. Now in my current job (I've been at for 3.75 years at this point) I can't use the earbuds and so I can't risk listening to that stuff at work anymore. If I could get away with having my door closed all of the time and not seeming like the anti-social curmudgeonly asshole I am I certainly would, but they don't like that around here so I have to listen to more clean things. If I am listening to anything explicit I listen to it in German and so no one knows the difference around here.

Anyway, all of that to say that I am ridiculously behind on my podcast listening and so for the past 3 or so years I have gotten maybe five episodes of random Kevin Smith podcasts in.

[GMDino]

(04-01-2016, 09:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So in my old job I used to be able to sit around with earbuds in and just crunch numbers all day. This resulted in me listening to S.I.R. all day every day, and it was great. Now in my current job (I've been at for 3.75 years at this point) I can't use the earbuds and so I can't risk listening to that stuff at work anymore. If I could get away with having my door closed all of the time and not seeming like the anti-social curmudgeonly asshole I am I certainly would, but they don't like that around here so I have to listen to more clean things. If I am listening to anything explicit I listen to it in German and so no one knows the difference around here.

Anyway, all of that to say that I am ridiculously behind on my podcast listening and so for the past 3 or so years I have gotten maybe five episodes of random Kevin Smith podcasts in.

The new version of Fatman is pretty good.  I listen at the gym and when I am driving...with no one else in the car!  LOL!
But I really only listen to the HBO and Edumacation....which I came to late and am about 3 years behind on.

[fredtoast]

(03-26-2016, 05:03 PM)xxlt Wrote:
So, my questions are - what is your religion and is Easter a big deal for you?

Easter is the suxor!1!1!

Wester is much bester.

[Vlad]

(04-01-2016, 08:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: That's why I said "beyond that the message is wonderful".  The story of redemption and salvation is why we celebrated.  Everything the 2-3 days before is make rising from the dead seem even MORE miraculous.  Overkill.

I guess Ill take that as a yes, that you believe Jesus rose from the dead.

Then why do you join in mocking and ridiculing others on this board that also believe?  Aren't you being a hypocrite?


You mentioned salvation. So you must believe in heaven and hell too right?

Is there a chance you will be able answer this with a simple yes or no before going into your spin? ... you know, the simple yes or no you expected from Ted Cruz when asked if he ever cheated on his wife.

[GMDino]

(04-01-2016, 12:49 PM)Vlad Wrote: I guess Ill take that as a yes, that you believe Jesus rose from the dead.

Then why do you join in mocking and ridiculing others on this board that also believe?  Aren't you being a hypocrite?


You mentioned salvation. So you must believe in heaven and hell too right?

Is there a chance you will be able answer this with a simple yes or no before going into your spin? ... you know, the simple yes or no you expected from Ted Cruz when asked if he ever cheated on his wife.

Ask me if I cheated on my wife.  Ever.  The answer is no.  That's easy.

Ask me about religion and it requires some explanation.

Challenging a religion isn't mocking.  IMHO

Posting a joke about a religion isn't ridiculing.  IMHO

As I said before, if I was raised in another faith I'd speak out and about more often about it.

I was raised Roman Catholic.  I know no other religion.*

My beliefs were drilled into me (figuratively) through 12 years of Catholic school.

As an adult I have modified my stance.

I believe in a god.  He uses whatever means are/were necessary to teach us about him.  He is not vengeful nor is he interfering in our lives in a daily basis.

It may not even be a "god"...more like a more powerful being.

He has a sense of humor too.  Look around.  That's easy to see. 

I don't know if there is a reward / punishment after we die.  No one does.  Some believe it absolutely.  Some do not.

All I know is that right now I am here and I want to do good by my fellow humans.  Not because there might be some great reward for doing it or that there might be some eternal damnation for not doing it...but because we are all in this life together and hating each other for whatever reason is a waste of the limited time we have while we are living.  

What happens after we stop living will be something else.  

The story of the resurrection may or may not be true.  No matter what it is a beautiful story to give people hope of something after all the suffering in their lives.  Clinging to or believing in that is not a bad thing at all.

Man corrupts everything eventually.  Religion is no different.  I have a faith...but the physical church on earth (any of them) plays very little part in it.  My faith has formed from all those years of indoctrination followed by all these years of having my eyes opened to what happens outside of that sheltered worldview. 








*Just a small caveat:  I have plenty of friends who are NOT Roman CAtholic and have read a little on many different faiths.  What I mean is that this all I have ever been and I've never been to any of the other churches enough to say I know them.

[Bengalzona]

(04-01-2016, 08:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: That's why I said "beyond that the message is wonderful".  The story of redemption and salvation is why we celebrated.  Everything the 2-3 days before is make rising from the dead seem even MORE miraculous.  Overkill.

As you know already, the church was originally built around the 365.25 day yearly calendar with each day associated with certain saints, prayers, liturgy, etc. framed in the overarching seasonal church framework (lent, advent, etc.). And, as you also already know, they went so far as to breakdown each day with certain hourly prayers and masses (not too unlike the Muslims daily calls to prayer). I mention this because many modern non-denominational Christians might not be familiar with this. The church was one big clock/calendar: a very useful thing back then. For several centuries, the church bells ringing helped segment the work day so that tasks could be planned and compartmentalized better. And that usefulness helped to reinforce their message of the importance of the church and the teaching that it should be central in everyone's lives.

Time was neatly divided up into the church-approved calendar. Everything, that is, except for Easter. Easter got to be the 'free roaming' holiday occurring on different days in different years. Of course, it would have been that way anyway if they had chose to stick to the Biblical description and to reconcile with the Jewish calendar. But, in light of the highly-structured timetable of events in the rest of the Christian calendar, one would think the early church leadership would have chosen to just pick a day (a la Christmas) and say, "That is when we are doing this thing...every year". I find that a bit odd and interesting.

And speaking of time and the Bible, the passage about "On the third day, He rose again." always bothered me. Not the 'rising from the dead' part. That is core belief for a Christian, right up there with Jesus dying for the sins of the world. No, the part about the 'third day', because it didn't quite jive with the whole Easter timeline. Yeah, I know it is supposed to be Friday, Saturday and Sunday equals three days. But it is not three 'full' days. Actually, the Bible quotes Jesus as saying "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40). Right? Jewish writers were very specific in their language. When the phrase was "three days and three nights" that did not mean parts of three days. That meant three full days. Three days and three nights is 72 hours. Per Mark, Jesus died in the 9th hour on the Sabbath, which equates to 3PM on Friday. Three full days later would be Monday at 3PM. But we generally celebrate Easter on Sunday morning, which would technically be less than two days after the death.

See what I mean? Anybody else ever bothered by that?

Of course, there is also another explanation for the Biblical description. The Sabbath noted in the description was not the typical Saturday Sabbath (observed at sundown on Friday). Rather, it was the Passover Sabbath. The Passover Sabbath would have been observed on Thursday, but the preparation and observance would have begun the evening before at sundown on Wednesday. Of course, this still doesn't put the resurrection on a Sunday. But the Bible never said it was on a Sunday anyway.

So... why don't we have a Maundy Tuesday or a Good Wednesday or an Easter Saturday?

I suppose it is because that that is the way the Early Church wanted it. And that kinda bothers me too. 

[xxlt]

(03-31-2016, 10:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is going to sound a little new agey, so get ready. In my experience, certain days have a certain energy about them. There is a connecting energy flowing all around us and we subconsciously recognize this, and always have. This is why we see this continuarion in these sorts of holidays throughout history.

Or maybe it is more about what Jung called archetypes - maybe the energy comes not from the days or the seasons but from within us and through others in ways we don't fully consciously perceive. Maybe a combo of the two. Definitely interesting stuff.

[xxlt]

(04-01-2016, 07:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This was my first Easter at a liturgical church. I definitely found it interesting that there was no mention of the suffering on Easter, it was entirely about the resurrection. Definitely was not the case in the churches I grew up in.

Meaning? In the Catholic Church the Mass is broadly divided into two parts: the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The word liturgy means public worship or ritual. The last church I attended had no worship elements and was pretty lean on ritual too, although there was an order of the meeting. I just found the phrase in bold above jumped out at me and wondered if you could delineate what you mean be liturgical and non-liturgical church and give some examples of each.

[xxlt]

(04-01-2016, 08:58 AM)GMDino Wrote:  asking  if Jesus was crucified or not.  

They did some alt endings and focus grouped them. The crucifixion made final edit because focus groups liked it.

[xxlt]

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote:  

What happens after we stop living will be something else.  

Best take I ever saw on ^ this was this: "What will it be like when you die? Do you remember what it was like before you were born? It will be like that."

[Belsnickel]

(04-01-2016, 03:40 PM)xxlt Wrote: Meaning? In the Catholic Church the Mass is broadly divided into two parts: the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The word liturgy means public worship or ritual. The last church I attended had no worship elements and was pretty lean on ritual too, although there was an order of the meeting. I just found the phrase in bold above jumped out at me and wondered if you could delineate what you mean be liturgical and non-liturgical church and give some examples of each.

While technically speaking every worship service is a liturgy, the differentiation between liturgical and non-liturgical churches is something that I grew up with. Liturgical churches would be those with a more formal, ritualized service. Denominations such as Lutheran, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox, etc. Non-liturgical would be those like the Baptists, Brethren, Quakers, and many of those termed as "evangelical" churches today.

While there is no hard and fast rule for this, things that I was often told growing up identified a liturgical church were: collared clergy, eucharist at each service, adherence to the liturgical year beyond the big 2, veneration of saints, etc.

[fredtoast]

(04-01-2016, 03:43 PM)xxlt Wrote: They did some alt endings and focus grouped them. The crucifixion made final edit because focus groups liked it.

In all seriousness all of the gospels that made the final cut placed a lot of emphasis on the crucifixion.  The martyr element was very big in building early support for the Christian Church.

[xxlt]

(04-01-2016, 04:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In all seriousness all of the gospels that made the final cut placed a lot of emphasis on the crucifixion.  The martyr element was very big in building early support for the Christian Church.

Like focus groups for slasher films today today, you couldn't spill too much blood for those early fans of the Christian Lit genre.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-01-2016, 04:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In all seriousness all of the gospels that made the final cut placed a lot of emphasis on the crucifixion.  The martyr element was very big in building early support for the Christian Church.

Well yeah if you are basing your entire belief on the death and resurrection you gotta kind of include it.

[Vlad]

(04-01-2016, 07:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This was my first Easter at a liturgical church. I definitely found it interesting that there was no mention of the suffering on Easter, it was entirely about the resurrection. Definitely was not the case in the churches I grew up in.

What churches did you grow up in? There is no suffering on Easter lol. Its all about the joyful resurrection. The suffering happened on Good Friday.

TGIF wasn't happenin for Jesus. It was TGIS. Get it? lol

[*bfine32*]

(04-01-2016, 03:48 PM)xxlt Wrote: Best take I ever saw on ^ this was this: "What will it be like when you die? Do you remember what it was like before you were born? It will be like that."

Did that person speak from experience or where they just guessing?

[Vlad]

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ask me if I cheated on my wife.  Ever.  The answer is no.  That's easy.

Ask me about religion and it requires some explanation.

If you are a true believer then asking if you believe there's a heaven does not require you explaining yourself.
Ask an Evangelical preacher if he believes in heaven, he'll simply say yes.  Ask him to prove there's a heaven and he'll have some explaining to do.
You have agnostic tendencies. You want to believe, but have lots of questions.

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Challenging a religion isn't mocking.  IMHO

Agree 100%, except you don't do much challenging of Islam....however, your description of this "Wizard who lives in the sky who created everything" is nothing but mocking.

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Posting a joke about a religion  Christianity isn't ridiculing.  IMHO

It most certainly can be. The intent of many jokes is to mock or ridicule. It depends on the joke. Often the "jokes' posted here mock or ridicule Christianity.
Btw... I noticed your posting of Christian jokes intensified since we've been posting on this thread. What are you trying to prove?
Switch it up with some Muslim jokes once in a while.

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: As I said before, if I was raised in another faith I'd speak out and about more often about it.

I was raised Roman Catholic.  I know no other religion.*

You don't live in a shell either. You should know enough about Islam by now to speak out about it. Or are you afraid of offending Muslims? You don't seem to be afraid of offending Christians.

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: My beliefs were drilled into me (figuratively) through 12 years of Catholic school.

Similar to my upbringing.  Didn't attend Catholic high school though, but I certainly was drilled with religion as a kid.

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: As an adult I have modified my stance.

As have I.

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: I believe in a god.  He uses whatever means are/were necessary to teach us about him.  He is not vengeful nor is he interfering in our lives in a daily basis.

It may not even be a "god"...more like a more powerful being.

He has a sense of humor too.  Look around.  That's easy to see. 

I don't know if there is a reward / punishment after we die.  No one does.  Some believe it absolutely.  Some do not.

All I know is that right now I am here and I want to do good by my fellow humans.  Not because there might be some great reward for doing it or that there might be some eternal damnation for not doing it...but because we are all in this life together and hating each other for whatever reason is a waste of the limited time we have while we are living.  

What happens after we stop living will be something else.  

The story of the resurrection may or may not be true.  No matter what it is a beautiful story to give people hope of something after all the suffering in their lives.  Clinging to or believing in that is not a bad thing at all.

Ok, most all of that is about you neither denying or believing, or not sure...clearly an agnostic view.  At least you don't mock those that believe this guy Jesus actually resurrected after being dead for three days then flew up to heaven...you leave it up to the other liberals and atheists you side with on this board to do that.

(04-01-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Man corrupts everything eventually.  Religion is no different.  I have a faith...but the physical church on earth (any of them) plays very little part in it.  My faith has formed from all those years of indoctrination followed by all these years of having my eyes opened to what happens outside of that sheltered worldview. .

The first 2 sentences... agree, agree.  Third sentence??...you attend a physical church on a weekly basis I assume, how does it not play a part in your faith?
That last sentence can be interpreted a couple ways. Don't quite get it.
 

[Belsnickel]

(04-01-2016, 11:25 PM)Vlad Wrote: What churches did you grow up in? There is no suffering on Easter lol. Its all about the joyful resurrection. The suffering happened on Good Friday.

TGIF wasn't happenin for Jesus. It was TGIS. Get it? lol

I grew up CoB, though I attended different Anabaptist churches, all of them historically peace churches. There is nothing joyful about worship amongst them. I used to blame our German background, but the Lutherans do a hell of a job being joyful in worship, so I have no idea.