Easy Way To Protect Our Schools And Kids

[Leon]

as someone who supports the 2nd an owns about 40 right now, i will say these school shootings break my heart every time and also ill say there are a ton of folks in this world that should never even be in the same room as a gun.

i dont know what the answer is cause every one just cares more about not givin in on anything than keeoin kids alive. its sad and it hurts to watch nothing ever get done knowing children are just going to keep on dying cause folks dont care enough to actually try.

[samhain]

(04-01-2023, 09:56 PM)Leon Wrote: as someone who supports the 2nd an owns about 40 right now, i will say these school shootings break my heart every time and also ill say there are a ton of folks in this world that should never even be in the same room as a gun.

i dont know what the answer is cause every one just cares more about not givin in on anything than keeoin kids alive. its sad and it hurts to watch nothing ever get done knowing children are just going to keep on dying cause folks dont care enough to actually try.

I think people are just under incredible pressure in our culture.  They hold up ideals that aren't real or achievable.  Kids are told they have to be something that most will never be.  They are unsure and afraid, and their parents are overworked and not emotionally available.  Their priorities are formed by external factors that have no care for them whatsoever.  Meanness and humiliation are still rewarded, even in the age of anti-bullying campaigns.  It's honestly probably even worse due to the presence of social media, where it's literally rewarded monetarily.  

 A gun is an equalizer.  

In some ways this is good. If my wife is in a parking garage at night and a 200lb man assaults her, a gun is just about the only thing that 's going to help her absent of timely police presence.  

In a lot of ways, it's real bad.  Weak individuals will view guns as the only possible way to impose their will or retribution on people they perceive as antagonists. These kids have their heads up a Youtuber's ass or on a video game server for most of their lives.  Why validate yourself through work when you can just buy a gun and become Superman?  You can kill the biggest, baddest dude at your school and you don't even have to make a long-term lifestyle change.  

I have no problem with guns or people owning them, but I have a major problem with the current gun culture.  It's stupid, threatening, and it largely glorifies weakness.  People get guns to be instant tough guys.  Just toss on a Punisher shirt and you can be ready to fight Mike Tyson.  It's bullshit and it's killing people.  Our society used to be sane enough to handle gun ownership with minimal collateral damage, but that time has passed.  A gun is no longer a tool with a purpose.  It defines it's owner, and it's a crutch for everything else of substance missing in a person's life.

[GMDino]

So anyway...

The doors were locked.

The teachers were armed.

TN expanded firearm access.

The police arrived in minutes.

Covenant school had everything that MAGA GOP assured us prevents & stops mass shootings. And 3 babies & 3 adults were murdered in seconds.?

IT’S—THE—GUNS#GunReformNow pic.twitter.com/bcmPFPeBY7

— Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@QasimRashid) April 2, 2023

[BigPapaKain]

Someone else said this but it resonated.

If more guns made us safe, we'd already be the safest country in the world and this kind of shit wouldn't keep happening.

[BFritz21]

(04-02-2023, 01:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: So anyway...

The doors were locked.

The teachers were armed.

TN expanded firearm access.

The police arrived in minutes.

Covenant school had everything that MAGA GOP assured us prevents & stops mass shootings. And 3 babies & 3 adults were murdered in seconds.?

IT’S—THE—GUNS#GunReformNow pic.twitter.com/bcmPFPeBY7

— Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@QasimRashid) April 2, 2023

A few staff members were armed but, last I saw, it was unclear if they were teachers.

Either way, it was only three staff members or teachers, so were they anywhere near the shooter that they could have done anything?

If a teacher was armed that was near the students or staff killed, would the shooter have been able to kill anyone, much-less six people?

(04-02-2023, 01:56 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Someone else said this but it resonated.

If more guns made us safe, we'd already be the safest country in the world and this kind of shit wouldn't keep happening.

The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun.

If more teachers or more staff were armed, would any innocent people have died?

Edit: I just saw where it's unclear if the people that had guns were even on school grounds at the time of the shooting.

[Arturo Bandini]

Don't give guns to bad guys so ...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-31-2023, 08:11 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: 76.8 billion dollars we sent to Ukraine

We didn't send $76.8b to Ukraine. 

A large portion of aid sent to Ukraine is pre-existing military equipment, a lot of which was already being phased out. A prime example is we sent a couple hundred APCs from the 60s-70s from our National Guards' inventories. Old equipment that was being phased out of even the second tier priority of our military, but was currently still needing to have money spend on maintaining them. The M1 Abrams tanks they're sending? They're the M1A1s, which were made in 1985-1992. They're still quality main battle tanks, but they aren't our modern tanks at all. Yet 31 of them is considered $400m in aid on it's own. They've sent 109 Bradley M2A2s, but again those are vehicles made in the 90s. We have A3s and A4s, and even they are looking at being replaced by a completely new vehicle soon.

The aid packages also includes things like the cost of deploying US troops to Eastern Europe countries (billions), that were going to happen regardless once Russia moved because of our NATO responsibilities. Or the cost of running our satellites to provide Ukraine military intelligence (billions), yet another thing we were going to do regardless, but they figured out a way to bill it under Ukraine aid. Or so they can buy weapon systems from US defense contractors, which is work for people in the US and money for people in the US that will never see Ukraine. The aid even includes paying back the US government to replenish donated ammunition.

The actual amount of monetary aid the US has sent to Ukraine is a fraction of that number, and largely based around a mixture of humanitarian aid and making sure the country with the ~2nd largest grain export in the world doesn't collapse economically because it will cause hundreds of millions of people in the world to face famine.

[BigPapaKain]

(04-02-2023, 02:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun.

If more teachers or more staff were armed, would any innocent people have died?

Reactionary fixes instead of proactive fixes always tend to have more blood on them.

It's impossible to say. Do the teachers practice or would they be firing blindly? Or freezing up in the moment. Everybody is Rambo until the bullets actually start flying. Best case scenario - one body. More likely it does nothing. Worst case is it adds to body count by re-arming the shooter or with stray bullets.

[samhain]

(04-03-2023, 12:30 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Reactionary fixes instead of proactive fixes always tend to have more blood on them.

It's impossible to say. Do the teachers practice or would they be firing blindly? Or freezing up in the moment. Everybody is Rambo until the bullets actually start flying. Best case scenario - one body. More likely it does nothing. Worst case is it adds to body count by re-arming the shooter or with stray bullets.

I feel like we need to escalate.  

People have been going on about going teachers guns.  They talk about adding law enforcement to staff.

Screw that.  We sent tanks to Ukraine, so we need to give the principals tanks.  Also, RPGs in every classroom.  I also think we put titanium-fanged lions or wolves in the halls during class.  Not like one, but several.  Like a dozen at each school. A gunman might get one, but eventually he'd be outnumbered by the critters.  We could get some of those leftover tigers from Joe Exotic.  

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-03-2023, 12:30 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Reactionary fixes instead of proactive fixes always tend to have more blood on them.

It's impossible to say. Do the teachers practice or would they be firing blindly? Or freezing up in the moment. Everybody is Rambo until the bullets actually start flying. Best case scenario - one body. More likely it does nothing. Worst case is it adds to body count by re-arming the shooter or with stray bullets.

You'll have to give them a damn huge raise to make the job of a teacher AND a police officer AND taking all the risks because the next shooter is going to target them immediatly.

Imagine the trauma when you dedicate your life to teaching kids and you have  to kill someone during the math lesson ... 

It's just not their job. 

[BigPapaKain]

(04-03-2023, 06:10 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You'll have to give them a damn huge raise to make the job of a teacher AND a police officer AND taking all the risks because the next shooter is going to target them immediatly.

Imagine the trauma when you dedicate your life to teaching kids and you have  to kill someone during the math lesson ... 

It's just not their job. 

Trust me - I'm not on board with arming teachers. Plenty of my friends are teachers or school faculty and not a one of them want to be in charge of taking the lead in an active shooter case. Most of them don't even want to carry.

That's even not acknowledging the facts that police tend to shoot first and ask questions later in a situation where a shooter is active. Let's say a teacher does manage to take out the actual threat - how do they tell the incoming police they're not the shooter and they got them without the cops firing like mad?

LEOs don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore.

[Arturo Bandini]

Believe me this teacher thing is not to find an answer but to find someone to blame.

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2023, 09:06 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Believe me this teacher thing is not to find an answer but to find someone to blame.

Y'know, what you say here makes more sense than I first realized. The amount of ire aimed at our educators by certain circles, claiming they are indoctrinating our youth, sexualizing them, etc., really does make it odd that they want to then turn around and arm those very same individuals.

[*pally*]

(04-02-2023, 02:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A few staff members were armed but, last I saw, it was unclear if they were teachers.

Either way, it was only three staff members or teachers, so were they anywhere near the shooter that they could have done anything?

If a teacher was armed that was near the students or staff killed, would the shooter have been able to kill anyone, much-less six people?

The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun.

If more teachers or more staff were armed, would any innocent people have died?

Edit: I just saw where it's unclear if the people that had guns were even on school grounds at the time of the shooting.

Yes, people would have died....the teachers with their pistols would have been mowed down by the AR-15.  Uvalde cops didn't go in when they should have because they were outgunned.

We have millions of so-called good guys with guns...guess what the bad guys are still killing people.  More guns=more violence. We have more guns in the hands of civilians than any other country in the world...and we are among the most violent which is the opposite of what your "good guy with gun" theory should show.  Back in the wild west days, Dodge City, Kansas finally ended the killings in their streets by banning guns.  It worked.

 The Buffalo supermarket had an armed guard.  He was the first to die.  Tree of Life Synagogue had an armed guard.  He was the first to die.

The potential of being killed doesn't stop these mass killers.  They go into it expected to die

Sooner than later common sense should prevail.  Every Tom, Dick, and Harry have 40 and 50 guns walking armed down the streets is NOT a "well-regulated militia"

[*Nately120*]

Have we tried raising taxes on the ultra wealthy in order to pay for 10 armed guards at every school yet? I don't usually cross boards here, but I've noticed some folks who think Burrow should take a discount to play for the Bengals because he doesn't "need all that money" are also pretty hesitant to tax billionaires so we can keep our kids safe.

[Arturo Bandini]

A man was arrested and charged after being found on North Carolina A&T’s campus with a revolver, handgun, rifle, two shotguns, a machete, brass knuckles, a stun gun, a crossbow, a sword, 12 knives, a baton, a window breaker, pepper spray and “holy water” https://t.co/tVsgUgmMpc

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) April 3, 2023

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[*Nately120*]

(04-04-2023, 11:20 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote:

A man was arrested and charged after being found on North Carolina A&T’s campus with a revolver, handgun, rifle, two shotguns, a machete, brass knuckles, a stun gun, a crossbow, a sword, 12 knives, a baton, a window breaker, pepper spray and “holy water” https://t.co/tVsgUgmMpc

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) April 3, 2023

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Holy water?  That's odd, usually that stuff is only found in the less GOP approved sects of Christianity. 

[*jason*]

(04-02-2023, 02:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A few staff members were armed but, last I saw, it was unclear if they were teachers.

Either way, it was only three staff members or teachers, so were they anywhere near the shooter that they could have done anything?

If a teacher was armed that was near the students or staff killed, would the shooter have been able to kill anyone, much-less six people?

The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun.

If more teachers or more staff were armed, would any innocent people have died?

Edit: I just saw where it's unclear if the people that had guns were even on school grounds at the time of the shooting.

It's also unclear if teachers even wanna be armed. Even if they do agree to be armed, do they have what it takes to actually use it. It's easy to talk about killing someone (especially if you've never done it). Quite another thing to actually do it. They're teachers...

[*Nately120*]

(04-04-2023, 02:23 PM)jason Wrote: It's also unclear if teachers even wanna be armed. Even if they do agree to be armed, do they have what it takes to actually use it. It's easy to talk about killing someone (especially if you've never done it). Quite another thing to actually do it. They're teachers...

I'm more interested to see what kind of people decide to enter the workforce as teachers now that part of the job is being armed and expected to be able to shoot and kill people.  I know people have fewer kids now, but it still seems like the demand for teachers can rise while the job qualifications are being lessened on the education side and heightened on the "do you see yourself being able to shoot someone?" side.

Color me intrigued.  I think certain states are dropping the college education requirement to teach, or they are at least toying with the idea.

[BFritz21]

(04-04-2023, 08:40 AM)pally Wrote: Yes, people would have died....the teachers with their pistols would have been mowed down by the AR-15.  Uvalde cops didn't go in when they should have because they were outgunned.

We have millions of so-called good guys with guns...guess what the bad guys are still killing people.  More guns=more violence. We have more guns in the hands of civilians than any other country in the world...and we are among the most violent which is the opposite of what your "good guy with gun" theory should show.  Back in the wild west days, Dodge City, Kansas finally ended the killings in their streets by banning guns.  It worked.

 The Buffalo supermarket had an armed guard.  He was the first to die.  Tree of Life Synagogue had an armed guard.  He was the first to die.

The potential of being killed doesn't stop these mass killers.  They go into it expected to die

Sooner than later common sense should prevail.  Every Tom, Dick, and Harry have 40 and 50 guns walking armed down the streets is NOT a "well-regulated militia"

If a teacher is in a room and has the gun pointed at the door after it has been announced or gun shots were heard, you think the shooter can come in, look around, locate the teacher, and shoot before the teacher shoots them?

They're also going to hide behind a desk or something while pointing the gun and the gunman is out in the open.

(04-04-2023, 02:23 PM)jason Wrote: It's also unclear if teachers even wanna be armed. Even if they do agree to be armed, do they have what it takes to actually use it. It's easy to talk about killing someone (especially if you've never done it). Quite another thing to actually do it. They're teachers...

Every teacher I've ever met would be willing to die for their students, so I think they'd be willing to kill someone trying to kill their students.

(04-04-2023, 02:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm more interested to see what kind of people decide to enter the workforce as teachers now that part of the job is being armed and expected to be able to shoot and kill people.  I know people have fewer kids now, but it still seems like the demand for teachers can rise while the job qualifications are being lessened on the education side and heightened on the "do you see yourself being able to shoot someone?" side.

Color me intrigued. 

When did I say every teacher would be armed?

It would be a choice and every teacher I've ever met is prepared to die for their students, so I don't think some would mind carrying in order to save their students lives.

Also, if a shooter knows that there's multiple soldiers at a school, don't you think they'll be less-likely to even attempt to attack the school?