End (Defund) the Police; The Ugly Truth

[jj22]

Let's talk about the party that really is trying to end the police because it isn't talked about enough and it is pretty common knowledge if you talk to them and not mention political triggering terms like "defund the police".

The party who has fought end the police is and has always been the Republican party. Their goal to arm every American and as we are seeing in Ohio and other Republican states pass laws where everyone minors included can open carry guns with no training, has been based on the ideal that they want to police themselves.

Now I understand rural Americans who believe it will take too long for police to come when they feel under threat, but the ideal that everyday citizens in cities need to be armed at all times only highlights their belief that they are the police, they don't need the police, and they don't care to call the police.

As we see in the Kyle trial, they believe in their own vigilante's. Not police. They believe they should be the ones who protect personal property theirs and others, not police.

Republicans are trying to arm all Americans, with no care in the world for the dangers they will put our cops in, many of which don't have the weaponry that you see them carry. They don't care.

One of the most interesting things about the defund police debate is that it has always been Republicans who have done everything to put our police force in bad situations with giving citizens military grade weapons, weapons that police have absolutely no shot at defending against.

We are working towards a society where everyone is armed (untrained and all), all ages, and at that point, there will be no need for police effectively ending the need for Police.

Thoughts?

[jj22]

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/11/17/ohio-moves-lower-requirements-armed-teachers-concealed-carry/8638715002/

[Dill]

(11-19-2021, 11:53 AM)jj22 Wrote: https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/11/17/ohio-moves-lower-requirements-armed-teachers-concealed-carry/8638715002/

If these bills pass, Ohioans will have way more "freedom" than residents of CA or NY.  Looking forward to the drop in the homicide rate for Ohio, as citizens can now "protect" themselves everywhere, including schools. 

Ohioans who wanted to carry a concealed weapon wouldn't be required to pass an eight-hour course or a background check under HB 227. 

Known as "constitutional carry or "permitless carry," the bill would let any resident who is 21 years or older carry their weapon inside their jacket as it is legally owned. It would also remove the requirement that people carrying concealed weapons notify police when stopped. 

Rep. Tom Brinkman, R-Cincinnati, who has pushed for a permitless carry program for decades, noted that gun owners who want to carry concealed weapons across state lines would still need an Ohio concealed handgun license. Ohio has reciprocity agreements with 39 other states.

Current law allows people to carry a firearm openly.

"There is no state mandate for training, there is no state mandate for licensing, and we certainly do not have a problem with these open carriers accidentally shooting people or becoming vigilante justice administrators," Brinkman has said.

[jj22]

They won't admit it, but they have worked to end police forces for years. And if their voters get up in arms about "defunding the police" then they should know they have supported ending them (far worse) for decades.

[BigPapaKain]

The same could be said for Unions (which at least around here strongly support the GoP).

[Belsnickel]

(11-19-2021, 02:55 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: The same could be said for Unions (which at least around here strongly support the GoP).

Wait, what? The only unions that I know of that typically support GOP candidates are police unions. Unions supporting Republicans is just counter to everything a union is about.

[GMDino]

(11-19-2021, 04:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Wait, what? The only unions that I know of that typically support GOP candidates are police unions. Unions supporting Republicans is just counter to everything a union is about.

Yeah, but the union members routinely vote against their own best interest...at least around here.

Where the good jobs left the voters buy the "america first" jargon from the republicans.  But they still think the steel mills are gonna reopen any time now...lol.

[jj22]

A lot of people vote against their interest in the name of politics. May Republican voters with salary jobs would have greatly benefited from overtime pay. Yet they voted for Trump and his first act was to cut it.

Now their elected officials will likely vote down $300 per child checks a month for those with dependents, many of which would greatly benefit from that. Yet.....

[BigPapaKain]

(11-19-2021, 04:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Wait, what? The only unions that I know of that typically support GOP candidates are police unions. Unions supporting Republicans is just counter to everything a union is about.

So at my place of business, we have a steel worker's union, a carpenter's union, a boilermaker's union, and on and on and on. Every one of their members will tell you how great the GoP is for for union. Which, admittedly, is probably true where I work (it's an oil refinery). I just don't get it.

[Sled21]

(11-19-2021, 11:50 AM)jj22 Wrote: Let's talk about the party that really is trying to end the police because it isn't talked about enough and it is pretty common knowledge if you talk to them and not mention political triggering terms like "defund the police".

The party who has fought end the police is and has always been the Republican party. Their goal to arm every American and as we are seeing in Ohio and other Republican states pass laws where everyone minors included can open carry guns with no training, has been based on the ideal that they want to police themselves.

Now I understand rural Americans who believe it will take too long for police to come when they feel under threat, but the ideal that everyday citizens in cities need to be armed at all times only highlights their belief that they are the police, they don't need the police, and they don't care to call the police.

As we see in the Kyle trial, they believe in their own vigilante's. Not police. They believe they should be the ones who protect personal property theirs and others, not police.

Republicans are trying to arm all Americans, with no care in the world for the dangers they will put our cops in, many of which don't have the weaponry that you see them carry. They don't care.

One of the most interesting things about the defund police debate is that it has always been Republicans who have done everything to put our police force in bad situations with giving citizens military grade weapons, weapons that police have absolutely no shot at defending against.

We are working towards a society where everyone is armed (untrained and all), all ages, and at that point, there will be no need for police effectively ending the need for Police.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are you are really coming unglued. 

[jj22]

Was there any thoughts on the topic? Or just another lame attempt to stalk me just to take a shot? You can't argue the point I made, and yet you feel the need to respond.

Talk about unglued. Dude you have to let me go. If you have no response to a topic, just don't respond.

And if you don't agree with the topic, learn to formulate a mature argument for why. You know. Like everyone else in this forum.

[Sled21]

(11-20-2021, 02:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: Was there any thoughts on the topic? Or just another lame attempt to stalk me just to take a shot? You can't argue the point I made, and yet you feel the need to respond.

Talk about unglued. Dude you have to let me go. If you have no response to a topic, just don't respond.

And if you don't agree with the topic, learn to formulate a mature argument for why. You know. Like everyone else in this forum.

If you are going to post drivel, don't get upset when someone calls you on it. And yes, as to your topic, I have been in Law Enforcement in one form or another for over 40 years, and the Democrats have never been a friend of Law Enforcement. Every single item of support we have received have come from Republicans. And most cops don't care and actually support law abiding citizens carrying concealed. It's only the criminals and the Democrats who worry about it.

[jj22]

This is actually a true debate across the nation when it relates to open carry with no background checks and training. One that if you take politics out many pro open carry gun people will tell you they have no need for the police. They believe in self vigilantes and hope to have a chance to have a reason to use their guns. I know I said defund the police which does cause these same anti police people to suddenly become pro police, but if you don't mention defund the police or a politcal tirgger, and say for example ?hey no need for you to carry your gun in McDonalds and everywhere just call the police, they will SLAM the police as useless etc..... They will go on and on about there not being a need for them if we all had guns. A good guy with a gun..

It is an interesting dynamic because the pro gun people have long slammed the need for police, and if it was up to them and poliics where out of the discussion, there would be no police.

[Bengalzona]

I dunno. You may find some rare individuals with the neo-conservative/libertarian mash-up politics who believe an armed society doesn't need a police force. But most conservatives I've met tend to support police. In fact, some jurisdictions 'over-support' them by purchasing departments things such surplus armored personnel carriers and tanks, etc. while trying to white-wash any and all accusations of brutality or corruption. This is why I support the 2nd Amendment and my right to own and deploy anti-tank weaponry.

[Sled21]

(11-20-2021, 09:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: This is actually a true debate across the nation when it relates to open carry with no background checks and training. One that if you take politics out many pro open carry gun people will tell you they have no need for the police. They believe in self vigilantes and hope to have a chance to have a reason to use their guns. I know I said defund the police which does cause these same anti police people to suddenly become pro police, but if you don't mention defund the police or a politcal tirgger, and say for example ?hey no need for you to carry your gun in McDonalds and everywhere just call the police, they will SLAM the police as useless etc..... They will go on and on about there not being a need for them if we all had guns. A good guy with a gun..

It is an interesting dynamic because the pro gun people have long slammed the need for police, and if it was up to them and poliics where out of the discussion, there would be no police.

There's a difference between SLAMING the police, and acknowledging if you really need them in a life and death situation, they probably aren't going to get there in time. Heck, I could tell you that... when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. That's a fact of life. 

[Sled21]

(11-20-2021, 10:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I dunno. You may find some rare individuals with the neo-conservative/libertarian mash-up politics who believe an armed society doesn't need a police force. But most conservatives I've met tend to support police. In fact, some jurisdictions 'over-support' them by purchasing departments things such surplus armored personnel carriers and tanks, etc. while trying to white-wash any and all accusations of brutality or corruption. This is why I support the 2nd Amendment and my right to own and deploy anti-tank weaponry.

I have yet to see a local or state police department anywhere that had a tank. Sure, they get used APC's for free or little to nothing from the Feds through programs that support LE, but they have them because they usually can't afford to buy Bearcats or other Armored Cars. Their APC's allow them to handle situations with some protection.

[Bengalzona]

(11-20-2021, 11:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I have yet to see a local or state police department anywhere that had a tank. Sure, they get used APC's for free or little to nothing from the Feds through programs that support LE, but they have them because they usually can't afford to buy Bearcats or other Armored Cars. Their APC's allow them to handle situations with some protection.

Sheriff Joe got a small surplus self-propelled howitzer for the Maricopa County Sheriff's Dept. about twenty years ago. They had it displayed out in front of their vehicle storage yard on the south side for several years. I used to drive by it several times a year. They never actually used it operationally, just for parades. They returned it to the Army in 2017 because the upkeep was too expensive.

[jj22]

(11-20-2021, 10:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I dunno. You may find some rare individuals with the neo-conservative/libertarian mash-up politics who believe an armed society doesn't need a police force. But most conservatives I've met tend to support police. In fact, some jurisdictions 'over-support' them by purchasing departments things such surplus armored personnel carriers and tanks, etc. while trying to white-wash any and all accusations of brutality or corruption. This is why I support the 2nd Amendment and my right to own and deploy anti-tank weaponry.

If you ask them if they support the police they will go out their way to say so.

But they purchase all those things because they want to be the police and really think of themselves as equal. With equal right, and equal authority to protect and defend not just themselves and thier familes, but their communities, friends, neighbors etc. They don't necessarrily dependent on or in need of a police force. If you don't believe me, this Thanksgiving or next time you are in a setting and people begin talking about their guns and people needing guns, open carry laws changing in Ohio. Ask "well what about calling the police" they'll walk right into the trap and let you know exactly how they feel about police, and the (lack of) need for them.

[masonbengals fan]

Bull... As a rural resident of this country I know the police aren't going to get here in an emergency in time. It's simply too far from town. That being said I have never once heard anyone, friend, family member or stranger/anyone else ever even once say we don't need the police.

The left firmly owns that one. Have you not had a television available for the last few years?

[Sled21]

(11-20-2021, 11:22 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Sheriff Joe got a small surplus self-propelled howitzer for the Maricopa County Sheriff's Dept. about twenty years ago. They had it displayed out in front of their vehicle storage yard on the south side for several years. I used to drive by it several times a year. They never actually used it operationally, just for parades. They returned it to the Army in 2017 because the upkeep was too expensive.

So basically a decoration much like you would see in front of VFW halls, public parks, etc. I guarantee the gun was disabled. So once again, I would like to see any state or local PD that possess and uses an operational tank.