Eric Reid Anthem Thread

[Domata94]

The protesting wasn't directly related to football in any way. That being said, as professional athletes, NFL players definitely have a strong platform/following to express their opinions and make a difference. Many NFL players are active in their communities and are involved in charity work... I think they also should have the right to express themselves politically. The people Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid are fighting for are people who don't really have a voice or a say in what happens so I admire that.

Personally, I don't mind if you agree or don't agree with their cause, but honestly I don't feel like it was ever being shoved in our faces. The media blew it out of proportion and that ended up causing a lot of hurt feelings. I had a friend growing up who is a Jehovah's witness and he never participated in the Pledge of Allegiance or National Anthem and I never thought twice about it. My father boycotted watching football last year but when I asked him why he could never give a good answer. As fans, our ideologies don't have to align 100% with the players. Part of what makes the United States a great country is the diversity we have.

I would support the signing of Eric Reid whether he continues protesting or not.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-10-2018, 01:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is a standard I try to hold myself to, as well.  I realize it may not be too fashionable these days, but even if I don't find something offensive I make an attempt to not offend people around me who do or might find it offensive when it's easy to do so.  



I thought about this when people were fawning over the Roseanne reboot showing the Trump love.  Who knows, Colin Kapernick could be a right-wing darling in 30 years, too.

Absolutely.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-10-2018, 01:25 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: So do I and have seen many do the same. Just not as many as those going about their business otherwise. It's just something I've noticed over the years, and not something I get overly riled by. 

Same here.

[*Nately120*]

(04-10-2018, 01:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: These guys get paid to play football, not for their political view points and whether they mean to or not they alienate
military who die for our freedom when they do this. Football is no place for politics and i actually have respect for how
Marvin has handled all of this honestly. He has kept it professional unlike Tomlin and the Stealers.

I understand this, but you also don't hear people saying "This is football, not a church" when players point towards the sky, pray on the field, or do the sign of the cross before kicking (can't recall which kicker did that), either.  I do recall a player praying to mecca in the endzone and it causing a bit of a stir, though.

Part of me can see why JJ Watt running around with the flag and throwing up civilian salutes is endearing, part of me can see why him playing GI Joe is patronizing, too.  That's just what you get with people.

As long as people play football you'll never be able to remove politics, the human element, and opinions from the game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

This is a nice thread with a lot of great points and a lot of respect going around. Healthy conversation.

That is the thing, people can get offended by anything nowadays but to me it is a little different when we are talking about the
military who die for our freedoms. When it is not about the military i am all for a little healthy offensive conversation lol

Love this board.

[*bfine32*]

(04-10-2018, 01:02 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: But their actions are saying 'oh good - it's Anthem time. Now I can get a beer 'cause I won't miss anything'. Certainly not paying the respect you allude to, by choice in fact.

It is intent. Those kneeling on the field intentionally want it to be known they are disrespecting the flag, those going to get beers are just selfish. Not a fan of either, but respect the right of each. just respect my right to call you selfish and/or disrespectful.  

[Shake n Blake]

(04-10-2018, 12:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think because folks don't say "look at me. I'm getting a beer during the Anthem". Also they are in view of the colors being presented.

As to the kneeling; Feel free to kneel, just feel free to accept my view that you are disrespecting the flag and the brave men and women that have sacrificed so much for it.

x2.

I don't like that people would ignore the Anthem to go get nachos, but what can I do about Joe Random in the crowd?

Also, they're not ones in the spotlight, in front of the cameras and Flag. For that, I can just stop watching non-Bengals NFL games.

(04-10-2018, 12:59 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Who cares. People need to mind their own business. There is no law stating he has to do anything during the anthem. If you don’t want someone to encroach on your freedom, why do you want to encroach on theirs?

Sure, there's no law against it, nor should there be. But the NFL should be embarrassed that the NBA did things the right way. They have a proper rule in place that makes players stand. That is the right of the employer, and I wish the NFL would fix that. I'm not holding my breath though, because the backlash from the media and NFLPA would likely be massive.

The NFL is in a tough spot, and I fully expect them to bend to the will of the left. 

----------------------------

As to Reid specifically, I admittedly don't know as much about him as Kaep. I know I don't want any kneeling for the Anthem on my team. I respect the Flag and view it as more than a piece of cloth. It's a symbol of all that unites us. Freedom. Family. Love for our fellow man. Taking away that is taking away one of the few things that used to unite us. As the saying goes, United we Stand...

I understand why people are on edge about police shootings, but I think there is too much emotion and not enough common sense behind the protesting. Cops killed 987 people in 2017, and only 19 were unarmed black men.

https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/

Sure, you could say 1 death is too many. I agree, but it's just not realistic when we're talking about human beings in high stress situations where we have no idea what happened. For example, one of these "unarmed" black men was trying to run a cop over with his car. I'm sure some of them made threatening actions or looked like they had a weapon. So what are we talking here? 5-6 cases (maybe) where a bad cop lost it and killed someone?

I would argue that we need more hand wringing over poverty, drugs, and murder in general than having a nation on edge over 19 deaths that may or may not have been justified in any way. Just feels we're being torn apart over a relatively small problem.

[*Nately120*]

(04-10-2018, 01:25 PM)Domata94 Wrote: The protesting wasn't directly related to football in any way. That being said, as professional athletes, NFL players definitely have a strong platform/following to express their opinions and make a difference. Many NFL players are active in their communities and are involved in charity work... I think they also should have the right to express themselves politically. The people Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid are fighting for are people who don't really have a voice or a say in what happens so I admire that.

Agreed.  Black athletes are also in a bit of a tough spot because it's easily for them to be criticized for "not caring about their people" or being too worried about protecting their marketability by not taking a stand nor doing enough to help once the paychecks start rolling in.

Personally, I don't have an issue with people choosing to abstain from football if that's what they wish to do, no explanation needed.  I'll say I've heard more than a few of them volunteer the information that they feel "those people" make too much money and should shut up and be good and grateful they're even allowed to make that kind of money, etc.  That stuff, or being hungup on how athletes "make too much money" leads me to believe there are things other than disrespecting the flag behind these feelings of disdain.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-10-2018, 01:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I understand this, but you also don't hear people saying "This is football, not a church" when players point towards the sky, pray on the field, or do the sign of the cross before kicking (can't recall which kicker did that), either.  I do recall a player praying to mecca in the endzone and it causing a bit of a stir, though.

Part of me can see why JJ Watt running around with the flag and throwing up civilian salutes is endearing, part of me can see why him playing GI Joe is patronizing, too.  That's just what you get with people.

As long as people play football you'll never be able to remove politics, the human element, and opinions from the game.

This is all true, great post. We all lean one way or the other.

I tend to lean Watt and Eifert's way, but that is what is great about this country, the freedom to do so.

The freedom to kneel is reason enough to stand is still i think the best way to put how i feel about the whole ordeal.

[Devils Advocate]

It’s not a political issue, it’s a human rights issue — it’s about police brutality.

If you wanna say it’s political, fine. But let’s not forget who brought the politics into in the first place; the NFL for (requiring?) the anthem pregame festivities. Take the anthem out, if it’s such a divisive issue. It really is an unnecessary thing.

[Luvnit2]

I find the kneeling disrespectful of the flag and the military. I feel there were far better ways to peacefully protest than kneeling.

He says he won't do it again and will fund other ways to protest. I will take him for his word so bring him onto the team. If he lied and does it again on the field, then major problem with him and the team. So risk and reward for FO as well as he signs and then gets political, the Bengals will not gain more fans for it, but they will definitely lose them.

[sandwedge]

I retired from the US Navy after serving 30 years almost 5 years ago. This might come as a shock to some here, but I wasn't offended at all. I didn't really feel it had anything to do with military, but social injustices. The stomping or burning of the flag is what gets my blood boiling, not someone that is quietly kneeling.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-10-2018, 01:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Agreed.  Black athletes are also in a bit of a tough spot because it's easily for them to be criticized for "not caring about their people" or being too worried about protecting their marketability by not taking a stand nor doing enough to help once the paychecks start rolling in.

Personally, I don't have an issue with people choosing to abstain from football if that's what they wish to do, no explanation needed.  I'll say I've heard more than a few of them volunteer the information that they feel "those people" make too much money and should shut up and be good and grateful they're even allowed to make that kind of money, etc.  That stuff, or being hungup on how athletes "make too much money" leads me to believe there are things other than disrespecting the flag behind these feelings of disdain.

Oh, there are absolutely those out there that are just haters....be it racists, folks jealous of the success, or a combination of both.  However, there are those that take a genuine offense to it because of personal meaning of the flag, what it stands for, and for those that have served and those that have perished serving.  That's where it becomes an issue for me.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-10-2018, 01:41 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I retired from the US Navy after serving 30 years almost 5 years ago. This might come as a shock to some here, but I wasn't offended at all. I didn't really feel it had anything to do with military, but social injustices.  The stomping or burning of the flag is what gets my blood boiling, not someone that is quietly kneeling.

This is where I draw the line too.  It doesn't shock me in the least that you have the view you do....it's what you served to protect: freedom.

Thank you for protecting us schlubs back home.

[*Nately120*]

(04-10-2018, 01:39 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: It’s not a political issue, it’s a human rights issue — it’s about police brutality.

If you wanna say it’s political, fine. But let’s not forget who brought the politics into in the first place; the NFL for (requiring?) the anthem pregame festivities. Take the anthem out, if it’s such a divisive issue. It really is an unnecessary thing.

Right-o.  It's all perspective, too.  I know someone who was making it clear he wasn't watching the NFL because of the kneeling and I said that's his choice, but there were 3 guys kneeling at the time but also over 100 happy looking vets on the field holding a giant American flag and 40,000+ people in the stands not kneeling at the same time.

From a marketing standpoint, the NFL is firmly entrenched in pro-flag territory.  Not to mention 50% of the commercials seem to be about how awesome it is to be in the military because you can join that awesome credit union, and so on.  I'd be getting way too deep here, but the reason the flag itself is such a political thing/tool is due to certain political factions using it as a marketing tool for decades.  It's smart business, but I can also see how even the flag of this country itself has become a "your side vs my side" sort of thing.

[Goalpost]

I just think the message gets mixed when you go overseas and stand for England's, or stand for Mexico's. It sure seems like our flag is being disrespected despite some saying it isn't. I respect their right. I just think they picked a bad place to do it. And I also think it has affected viewership of which I could understand an owners concern.

[*Nately120*]

(04-10-2018, 01:43 PM)Wyche Wrote: Oh, there are absolutely those out there that are just haters....be it racists, folks jealous of the success, or a combination of both.  However, there are those that take a genuine offense to it because of personal meaning of the flag, what it stands for, and for those that have served and those that have perished serving.  That's where it becomes an issue for me.

I hear ya, and then that gets into my question about why respecting those who died for this country stops at the flag and doesn't extend to all that pro-environment "let's not destroy actual American soil/water/air etc" feeling.  I actually have to wonder what sort of reaction I'd get if the next time I saw someone litter I'd say that people fought for this country and you disrespect them by throwing your trash all over it because you're lazy.

I'd doubt most people even made the connection.  Oh, but this gets me into some really cynical territory here so I'd best get back to work and pipe down.

[*ochocincos*]

I've never had any issue with the protests. The intent of the protests was to raise awareness for police brutality and oppression and promote change. The fact it's during the Anthem was because that's when the individuals felt it would get noticed best outside of the actual game itself. If it was done at the conclusion of the game, it wouldn't have been as noticed. Those who take offense either still don't understand what it's about, would prefer it being done outside of the Anthem/game/stadium, and/or just don't agree with the protest.

[Mickeypoo]

(04-10-2018, 01:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I understand why people are on edge about police shootings, but I think there is too much emotion and not enough common sense behind the protesting. Cops killed 987 people in 2017, and only 19 were unarmed black men.

https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/

Sure, you could say 1 death is too many. I agree, but it's just not realistic when we're talking about human beings in high stress situations where we have no idea what happened. For example, one of these "unarmed" black men was trying to run a cop over with his car. I'm sure some of them made threatening actions or looked like they had a weapon. So what are we talking here? 5-6 cases (maybe) where a bad cop lost it and killed someone?

I would argue that we need more hand wringing over poverty, drugs, and murder in general than having a nation on edge over 19 deaths that may or may not have been justified in any way. Just feels we're being torn apart over a relatively small problem.

This^^^

Maybe they can kneel for something really worth while like all the death in Chicago. I don't like the kneeling.

[Devils Advocate]

It’s not a political issue, it’s a human rights issue — it’s about police brutality.

If you wanna say it’s political, fine. But let’s not forget who brought the politics into in the first place; the NFL for (requiring?) the anthem pregame festivities. Take the anthem out, if it’s such a divisive issue. It really is an unnecessary thing.