Eric Reid Anthem Thread

[XenoMorph]

(04-10-2018, 01:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Agreed.  Black athletes are also in a bit of a tough spot because it's easily for them to be criticized for "not caring about their people" or being too worried about protecting their marketability by not taking a stand nor doing enough to help once the paychecks start rolling in.

Personally, I don't have an issue with people choosing to abstain from football if that's what they wish to do, no explanation needed.  I'll say I've heard more than a few of them volunteer the information that they feel "those people" make too much money and should shut up and be good and grateful they're even allowed to make that kind of money, etc.  That stuff, or being hungup on how athletes "make too much money" leads me to believe there are things other than disrespecting the flag behind these feelings of disdain.

Really to me that's part of the problem    We are all(mostly All) Americans here (in America not on the message board)  We are 1 people Americans.

we are not Irish-Americans / German Americans / Japanese-American or even African American.. We are Americans...   the sooner we stop labeling ourselves as separate things the better. (only someone with actual DUO citizenship can claim one of those titles.)

"those people" referring to Professional Atheletes right?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-10-2018, 04:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: One thing I think doesn't go stated enough is at first he sat on the bench. It was VETS and different Veteran organizations  who told him kneeling would be more respectful. Of course it all got lost when the spin happened, and political figures pounced on it, but that is significant because he and others were doing what they were told by our Vets. Kneeling has never been seen as disrespectful until now. NEVER! It's always been an act of grace. Biblical. Something done in front of Kings, when praying, show of deference etc.....

People just got lost and manipulated by Fake News! It's really unfortunate, but it's the world we live in.

This is a great point that i honestly forgot.

Nice post man. Still, i agree with lots on here that there were other ways to go about this, not on the football field.

It alienated lots of fans like Bonnie here, which was probably not lots of the players intentions.

(04-10-2018, 04:40 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I care.  It matters to me.  I already boycotted the NFL most of last year because of this issue, and if Mike Brown signs him I will probably stay away longer.

I remember you saying this Bonnie, just happy our Bengals handled it the right way and you are still here.

I don't think you should be mad at the Bengals for signing a player that helps the team though. 

Reid said he has no plans to kneel again.

God don't care who you were, he cares who you are.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-10-2018, 05:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Really to me that's part of the problem    We are all(mostly All) Americans here (in America not on the message board)  We are 1 people Americans.

we are not Irish-Americans / German Americans / Japanese-American or even African American.. We are Americans...   the sooner we stop labeling ourselves as separate things the better. (only someone with actual DUO citizenship can claim one of those titles.)

"those people" referring to Professional Atheletes right?

Great post Xeno.

[t3r3e3]

(04-10-2018, 12:45 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Then there are those who blow off the Anthem entirely, by standing in line for their beer and hotdogs. Why isn't this level of disrespect being criticized by those who are concerned about kneeling?

Sad truth: Because the beer line/hot dog folks aren’t highly paid black athletes protesting police brutality by primarily white police officers, who are shielded by laws created primarily by white politicians, and criticized by primarily white cable tv personalities on majority-white viewer networks, that are bankrolled primarily by white advertising and white ownership.


For me, I have no problem with Reid, Stills, Kaepernick, or any of the other protestors. They’re not protesting the flag, veterans, freedom, or any of the convenient wedge claims tossed around by folks who seek to delegitimize the protests. Rather, they’re using a highly viewed event to protest police brutality and systemic racism, which is and has been a real thing in this nation for a long time. Just as Carlos and Poe protested during the medal ceremony, it’s the time when everyone will see the protest and lend maximum visibility to the cause for the protest. It has been stated many times by the protestors that in no way shape or form are they protesting vets, the flag, freedom, etc.

Bottom line is the true targets of the protests are an uncomfortable subject, albeit, one that warrants awareness.

[McC]

(04-10-2018, 03:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see why you think it is proper for an employer to force employees to express patriotism.

If it is not voluntary it is meaningless.  You can't force people to celebrate freedom.

No, but you can make a policy, like every sporting event pretty much all over the world has.

[N_B]

(04-10-2018, 05:57 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Sad truth: Because the beer line/hot dog folks aren’t highly paid black athletes protesting police brutality by primarily white police officers, who are shielded by laws created primarily by white politicians, and criticized by primarily white cable tv personalities on majority-white viewer networks, that are bankrolled primarily by white advertising and white ownership.


For me, I have no problem with Reid, Stills, Kaepernick, or any of the other protestors. They’re not protesting the flag, veterans, freedom, or any of the convenient wedge claims tossed around by folks who seek to delegitimize the protests. Rather, they’re using a highly viewed event to protest police brutality and systemic racism, which is and has been a real thing in this nation for a long time. Just as Carlos and Poe protested during the medal ceremony, it’s the time when everyone will see the protest and lend maximum visibility to the cause for the protest. It has been stated many times by the protestors that in no way shape or form are they protesting vets, the flag, freedom, etc.

Bottom line is the true targets of the protests are an uncomfortable subject, albeit, one that warrants awareness.

Great post, well said

[*Nately120*]

(04-10-2018, 05:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Really to me that's part of the problem    We are all(mostly All) Americans here (in America not on the message board)  We are 1 people Americans.

we are not Irish-Americans / German Americans / Japanese-American or even African American.. We are Americans...   the sooner we stop labeling ourselves as separate things the better. (only someone with actual DUO citizenship can claim one of those titles.)

"those people" referring to Professional Atheletes right?

I can't speak for everyone who complains about how much athletes make, but I've noticed some underlying discomfort with some people on the notion of young black men having lots of money.  Even then, it's more about how you protest it and how you articulate it.  I once talked basketball with a guy who plainly told me he lost interest in the NBA because there aren't enough white players these days.  He didn't say they shouldn't let so many black players in the NBA, and he's just saying why he isn't into something anymore so to each his own, I guess.

Maybe I've just set the bar so low for people that being openly racist but just being upset and not calling for the world to be tailored to fit what you want is enough for me to shrug and say to each his own.

But to your point, yes, the idea of us being 1 people and all Americans makes sense, but it's just too easy /profitable to build your own team/brand by saying that you are or represent REAL Americans.  You hear that all the time.  Real Americans voted for ____.  Real Americans buy/eat/drink/think _____.  Look at any football team's fanbase and you'll see people arguing that real fans think/do _____.  I noticed in my facebook feed that Fleetwood Mac fired Lindsey Buckingham and now people are saying real Fleetwood Mac fans won't go to the concert and the fake ones will and blah blah blah.

It's all marketing. Look at Coke and Pepsi. Both are brown syrup drinks in metal cans but long-term marketing has us believing these two nigh incidental types of cola are vastly different. One is pure Americana, historic, part of your very life, it's like drinking a Norman Rockwell painting. The other is edgy, the choice of a new generation, the hip alternative to your grandma's lame-o cola. If Americans get this divisive over brown sugar water, what's to stop us from killing each other over stuff with more significance?

[HarleyDog]

(04-10-2018, 05:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I disagree as an employer, you can make rules forcing your EMPLOYEES to do as you wish. There are leagues that do it as well. It may not seem or be fair to some, but it is 100% legal as your employees represent their brand and the company so legally you can apply rules they must abide by or be terminated. That is the great thin about our country, owners can apply rules at this risk if alienating their customers who disagree with their rules and employees can act as they wish with consequence from their customer (fans).

I agree with this. I will extend further with my own opinion which In my company, our drivers wear uniforms which bare the company name on them. If you was to disrespect the law or do anything else that is not what our company stands for, than we have the right to terminate you, contract or not! It is our business, not yours. If you don't wish to abide by our companies goals, then you don't belong. WTS, I am a veteran and I do think people should have the right to protest and speak freely. Just pick a platform more suitable to support your cause other than one that will offend and actually hurt some. Using the American flag or it's anthem is ridiculous to say the least. 

[Circleville Guy]

I support everyone’s right to protest but is there ever a wrong time, place or method of protest? I personally believe that there are and that this lands in that category. I also don’t like false narratives causing hate. The narrative that 13% of the population is shot by cops 30% of the time is pushed and causes hate and protest. The fact that’s left out is that 13% commits over 50% of violent crime probably has a lot to do with why they get shot more. PC people only want to focus on that first part. How can you solve any problem if you won’t factor in everything that contributes to that problem? They have a right to protest but how can people work together if they won’t admit the whole problem? I know, it makes me racist to say the whole problem... right? By the way, I support signing this guy.

[BengalsRocker]

I don't care about it.

Playing the anthem is tradition and standing appropriately is just etiquette.

People break traditions and ignore etiquette on a daily basis.

That doesn't make it right in everyone's eyes and probably never will.



People keep mixing the message with disrespecting the military.

That isn't the message though.

My real question is... has it really changed anything??

It's just another talking point that goes nowhere and brings out the worst in people who would like to vilify anyone who doesn't follow their beliefs/opinions.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-10-2018, 06:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I agree with this. I will extend further with my own opinion which In my company, our drivers wear uniforms which bare the company name on them. If you was to disrespect the law or do anything else that is not what our company stands for, than we have the right to terminate you, contract or not! It is our business, not yours. If you don't wish to abide by our companies goals, then you don't belong. WTS, I am a veteran and I do think people should have the right to protest and speak freely. Just pick a platform more suitable to support your cause other than one that will offend and actually hurt some. Using the American flag or it's anthem is ridiculous to say the least. 

You know it Harley, completely agree.

(04-10-2018, 06:59 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I support everyone’s right to protest but is there ever a wrong time, place or method of protest? I personally believe that there are and that this lands in that category. I also don’t like false narratives causing hate. The narrative that 13% of the population is shot by cops 30% of the time is pushed and causes hate and protest. The fact that’s left out is that 13% commits over 50% of violent crime probably has a lot to do with why they get shot more. PC people only want to focus on that first part. How can you solve any problem if you won’t factor in everything that contributes to that problem? They have a right to protest but how can people work together if they won’t admit the whole problem? I know, it makes me racist to say the whole problem... right? By the way, I support signing this guy.

Well said CG. In the end this is correct and it is sad that race has to even be brought into it.

Don't care what color a person is. Like Xeno said, in the end we are all Americans and that is what matters.

Division is what these protests seem to be causing, not unity. And i agree, i support signing Reid.

[HarleyDog]

(04-10-2018, 06:59 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I support everyone’s right to protest but is there ever a wrong time, place or method of protest? I personally believe that there are and that this lands in that category. I also don’t like false narratives causing hate. The narrative that 13% of the population is shot by cops 30% of the time is pushed and causes hate and protest. The fact that’s left out is that 13% commits over 50% of violent crime probably has a lot to do with why they get shot more. PC people only want to focus on that first part. How can you solve any problem if you won’t factor in everything that contributes to that problem? They have a right to protest but how can people work together if they won’t admit the whole problem? I know, it makes me racist to say the whole problem... right? By the way, I support signing this guy.

Not a racist post at all. You are correct in (round-a-bout) stating that people only get half the facts. If you ever go to P&R (which is where this thread will end up tomorrow) you will see a lot of it. This is much like our society. Closed minds arguing one side thinking they have all the facts has become the American way of dispute (politics). The media pushes this agenda on both the left and right because, well, it makes them billions each year. 

The real criminal is the media. There once was a time when they united the country with truth. Now they divide it with lies and personal agenda's based on contributions, directed agendas and financing. Since the NFL is a big partner with the media stations and receive a large part of it's revenue from them, it seems money spoke and maybe the NFL was sorta hogtied? There once was a time when I thought the NFL could soon become America's pastime and steal that title away from MLB. Not gonna happen now.

[bengaloo]

I dont really enjoy politics and the drama that come with them. That being said its unavoidable now to hear all things politics. You hear it and see it every day. It has become popular to be all about politics. I dont like them but I've always enjoyed the National Anthem. Every time I go to a game, it has always kind of touched me to see all people standing up together to pay honor to the hero's of our nations past. Why did I always like it? Because I dont feel like the anthem is political, or at least in a way that its either liberal or conservative. Its not. Its not about Trump or Clinton or Bernie, or even JFK or Regan. Its about veterans and us. Its about a nation...

Until now. Now football is all about politics too. Everyone is an expert, everyone has an opinion, everyones heart is on their sleeve. Sundays are no longer a day to escape that crap, its now right there as well, and it takes away from the fun of football in my opinion. It makes is stressful because of the exploding heads from opposing sides going at each other and the up-in-arms controversy of the anthem protests. Apparently fans cant even get along now over politics. Thats how I feel about this. People have their views and they want it be noticed and be heard and that is great, but how far beyond talking smack and "raising awareness" do people really take it? I doubt it ever goes much further than that. The players taking a knee? Well if it actually helped anything except to get some head nods, then I gotta admit I would be surprised as heck. Its a nice thought and I'm sure its a worthwhile cause like many others, but bringing it into Sunday game day was probably not the best way to go about it. Start a non-profit and give people a way to actually help, and things may change. The football game day protests are a waste of everyones time in my opinion. It also seem to be bad for the league. But whatever. I wish soapboxes were something I could build and sell. I'd be a billionaire.

[BengalsRocker]

(04-10-2018, 07:34 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I dont really enjoy politics and the drama that come with them. That being said its unavoidable now to hear all things politics. You hear it and see it every day. It has become popular to be all about politics. I dont like them but I've always enjoyed the National Anthem. Every time I go to a game, it has always kind of touched me to see all people standing up together to pay honor to the hero's of our nations past. Why did I always like it? Because I dont feel like the anthem is political, or at least in a way that its either liberal or conservative. Its not. Its not about Trump or Clinton or Bernie, or even JFK or Regan. Its about veterans and us. Its about a nation...

Until now. Now football is all about politics too. Everyone is an expert, everyone has an opinion, everyones heart is on their sleeve. Sundays are no longer a day to escape that crap, its now right there as well, and it takes away from the fun of football in my opinion. It makes is stressful because of the exploding heads from opposing sides going at each other and the up-in-arms controversy of the anthem protests. Apparently fans cant even get along now over politics. Thats how I feel about this. People have their views and they want it be noticed and be heard and that is great, but how far beyond talking smack and "raising awareness" do people really take it? I doubt it ever goes much further than that. The players taking a knee? Well if it actually helped anything except to get some head nods, then I gotta admit I would be surprised as heck. Its a nice thought and I'm sure its a worthwhile cause like many others, but bringing it into Sunday game day was probably not the best way to go about it. Start a non-profit and give people a way to actually help, and things may change. The football game day protests are a waste of everyones time in my opinion. It also seem to be bad for the league. But whatever. I wish soapboxes were something I could build and sell. I'd be a billionaire.

The funny thing is that small battles can much more easily be won than a large war.

If someone wanted to make real and immediate impact they would focus on their local communities first.

Instead we have people on soapboxes shaking a finger at the nation with empty words.

If these athletes want to make a difference they should be working to bridge the gap between youth and law enforcement.

I'd commend that.

It's these political puppets and the national media that love the hot button topics and divisive stories to push that make the message cloudy.

[BengalsRocker]

One last thing I'd like to mention...

This country is lost when people would vilify someone who peacefully protests injustice and yet turn a blind eye to another who is a truly a criminal.

[Circleville Guy]

(04-10-2018, 07:26 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not a racist post at all. You are correct in (round-a-bout) stating that people only get half the facts. If you ever go to P&R (which is where this thread will end up tomorrow) you will see a lot of it. This is much like our society. Closed minds arguing one side thinking they have all the facts has become the American way of dispute (politics). The media pushes this agenda on both the left and right because, well, it makes them billions each year. 

The real criminal is the media. There once was a time when they united the country with truth. Now they divide it with lies and personal agenda's based on contributions, directed agendas and financing. Since the NFL is a big partner with the media stations and receive a large part of it's revenue from them, it seems money spoke and maybe the NFL was sorta hogtied? There once was a time when I thought the NFL could soon become America's pastime and steal that title away from MLB. Not gonna happen now.

You are totally right about the media. Their agenda only causes more hate and divide, they know this and still do it. Here’s an easy example.. More whites than blacks get killed by cops. Do any of those deaths get pushed by the media? If twice as many whites get killed by cops but the black deaths get like 50 times more media coverage... Why is this? These protesters go off of what the media pushes as top stories vs. actual numbers. I just can’t figure out why the media wants hate between races. It’s both sad and sickening.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

1. I don’t care what Eric Reid did in a 49ers uniform.

2. Eric says he won’t kneel anymore.

3. I take him at his word.

[HarleyDog]

(04-10-2018, 08:17 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: 1. I don’t care what Eric Reid did in a 49ers uniform.

2. Eric says he won’t kneel anymore.

3. I take him at his word.

Yep. Let’s hope his word is as good as his play.

[McC]

(04-10-2018, 07:21 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I don't care about it.

Playing the anthem is tradition and standing appropriately is just etiquette.

People break traditions and ignore etiquette on a daily basis.

That doesn't make it right in everyone's eyes and probably never will.



People keep mixing the message with disrespecting the military.

That isn't the message though.

My real question is...   has it really changed anything??

It's just another talking point that goes nowhere and brings out the worst in people who would like to vilify anyone who doesn't follow their beliefs/opinions.

This is the world we live in.  There's no follow up and not enough follow through.  We have societal ADHD.  There's no follow up because the new things go whizzing by so fast that in a matter of days or weeks, what was news is buried under the weight of it.  Very few things last for a year.  Hell, not many things last a week.

The very thing people will be veins bulging, up in faces screamingingly passionate about today will be forgotten in a day or two.

The anthem had legs because it was weekly.  When the games ended, so did all the attention.

So, the real answer to your question of has anything changed is, who the hell knows, because nobody is reporting it now.  Did the cause die with the attention or did it get a life of its own and go on?  I don't ever hear a soul talk about that.

[HarleyDog]

i miss it when sports was fun.