(07-25-2017, 01:42 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Soldier's life is no way as restrictive as a prisoner.
Didn't say it was, false equivalency.
Quote:however the prisoner got there is irrelevant.
So, serial child rapist versus car thief, no difference?
Quote:Getting out early from a captive situation is quite different than taking a paying job.
No one said otherwise, false equivalency.
Quote:People in captivity often resort to desperate measures to get out of their situation or make it less terrible. Dangling that carrot with sterilization is not right. It's sinister.
It's still a choice. Either you trust adults to make adult decisions or you don't. I thought you were a government hands off type? Why don't you trust adults to make their own decisions? Nanny state?
(07-25-2017, 02:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's still a choice. Either you trust adults to make adult decisions or you don't. I thought you were a government hands off type? Why don't you trust adults to make their own decisions? Nanny state?
Some people take on views purely antithetical of their own in an attempt to justify poor decisions in the past.
This is yet another huge reach much like the left makes on issues like gun control. I hate voter suppression, but a cognitive dissonance test may do the current process well.
(07-25-2017, 12:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: By this logic encouraging condom use could be considered eugenics, or any form of birth control. After all, Catholics won't use them, so encouraging their use ensures fewer non-Catholics reproduce.
I guess that would depend on the motives of the ones encouraging condom use.
Margaret Sanger may have encouraged the use of birth control as a means to weed out a race because they are believed to have genetic defects or undesirable traits...not aware of any modern day entity that does though.
Again you're missing the point. Eugenics is a belief, or a study....
Forcing one to become sterile is the practice of eugenics, as is making a deal with a prisoner as this judge did the practice of eugenics.
I'll be completely honest here. I believe there are too many humans on this earth. It seems to me, the wrong people are having way too many children in this country currently. The people having 8+ kids are not our best, genetically.
I say cut some of these morons that believe in crazy religious beliefs off at 2 kids tops. If the government has to step in and sterilize some people because it let their crazy beliefs get out f hand in the first place, well, tough titties nut job. Read a ******* non-fiction book. If you can't raise them to be productive members of society, you need to be punished. Your offspring shouldn't be screwed for life because you were such an ideological dolt that you couldn't see the wheat from the chaff.
If anyone thinks the right people are having most of the kids in this country, they are lying to themselves. Wake up and be honest. Not a matter of eugenics. It's a matter of which people have the ability to raise kids correctly. It's a topic that we as a human race will have to take up eventually. Might as well start now.
(07-25-2017, 02:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Didn't say it was, false equivalency.
So, serial child rapist versus car thief, no difference?
No one said otherwise, false equivalency.
It's still a choice. Either you trust adults to make adult decisions or you don't. I thought you were a government hands off type? Why don't you trust adults to make their own decisions? Nanny state?
I do not mind giving anyone a choice. But giving that choice when anyone is under duress is not right.
(07-25-2017, 09:13 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I do not mind giving anyone a choice. But giving that choice when anyone is under duress is not right.
But in the African thread last week you said just giving them the choice of birth control was Eugenics. Which is it? Do you not mind giving people the choice or do you?
(07-25-2017, 09:26 AM)Au165 Wrote: But in the African thread last week you said just giving them the choice of birth control was Eugenics. Which is it? Do you not mind giving people the choice or do you?
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
I'm amazed at how people want to make this so complicated. Its not.
Eugenics is the belief that quality of the human species can be improved by reducing the birthrate of people with undesirable traits....regardless of how it is undertaken, whether it is voluntary, forced, under duress, blah blah blah... or the chance that it was ever done covertly under the guise of controlling overpopulation is all irrelevant.
(07-25-2017, 10:58 AM)Vlad Wrote: I'm amazed at how people want to make this so complicated. Its not.
Eugenics is the belief that quality of the human species can be improved by reducing the birthrate of people with undesirable traits....regardless of how it is undertaken, whether it is voluntary, forced, under duress, blah blah blah... or the chance that it was ever done covertly under the guise of controlling overpopulation is all irrelevant.
God help me, but I agree with Vlad on this. The exact definition of eugenics doesn't exist, but in a very broad sense what he states here is what eugenics is all about. We have a tendency to get defensive about the use of the term for things like this because we are aware of the extreme abuses of the concept that occurred thanks to the movement here and elsewhere in the first half of the twentieth century. But there is no doubt that the basis behind the idea of sterilization of prisoners or even providing prophylactics, no matter how voluntary, is rooted in the concepts of eugenics when viewed in the historical perspective and not solely based on the movement in the modern era.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(07-25-2017, 11:13 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: God help me, but I agree with Vlad on this. The exact definition of eugenics doesn't exist, but in a very broad sense what he states here is what eugenics is all about. We have a tendency to get defensive about the use of the term for things like this because we are aware of the extreme abuses of the concept that occurred thanks to the movement here and elsewhere in the first half of the twentieth century. But there is no doubt that the basis behind the idea of sterilization of prisoners or even providing prophylactics, no matter how voluntary, is rooted in the concepts of eugenics when viewed in the historical perspective and not solely based on the movement in the modern era.
So, you're both wrong.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(07-25-2017, 09:26 AM)Au165 Wrote: But in the African thread last week you said just giving them the choice of birth control was Eugenics. Which is it? Do you not mind giving people the choice or do you?
I said it was not right a foreign government was trying to destroy another nations population.
(07-25-2017, 11:13 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: God help me, but I agree with Vlad on this. The exact definition of eugenics doesn't exist, but in a very broad sense what he states here is what eugenics is all about. We have a tendency to get defensive about the use of the term for things like this because we are aware of the extreme abuses of the concept that occurred thanks to the movement here and elsewhere in the first half of the twentieth century. But there is no doubt that the basis behind the idea of sterilization of prisoners or even providing prophylactics, no matter how voluntary, is rooted in the concepts of eugenics when viewed in the historical perspective and not solely based on the movement in the modern era.
This is exactly why I use the term eugenics as much as possible, it wakes people up and alerts us to the disinformation by this movement for over 100 years now.
This was a dark time for us and at the time everyone thought it made sense just as "population control" seems to make sense to so many today. There is nothing wrong with turning the lights on this type of behavior.
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