Everyone Against Building The Wall- Part 2

[jj22]

(01-07-2019, 05:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote:

Did I miss something? Is Mexico paying for it? Cause isn't that what you (cause I didn't and so I don't say "we" voted for when discussing Trumps promises Hollodero, only those who voted for Trump say he is doing what "we" voted for)...

[*bfine32*]

(01-07-2019, 06:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: Did I miss something? Is Mexico paying for it? Cause isn't that what you (cause I didn't and so I don't say "we" voted for when discussing Trumps promises Hollodero, only those who voted for Trump say he is doing what "we" voted for)...

I said "we voted in a POTUS"; we being the American voters. Nowhere did I say anyone voted for him. I was replying to Matt; do you think Matt voted for POTUS? We did vote for the same person.

Not sure what the fascination is on trying to show I voted for Trump. If I had, I would say so and I've freely said: If there were only 2 to choose from (Hills and Trump) I would have voted for Trump; however, we had more than 2 options in KY. Hell I might have even voted for him if it were a swing state. 

So in short: Yeah, you missed something. 

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2019, 07:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So in short: Yeah, you missed something. 

And I missed something in your reply.  Trump promised Mexico would build the wall.  Why should WE not hold himto his promise.

If you took a job because you were promised a car paid for by the company would you be fine with being made to pay for the car instead?

Amazing the mental gymnastics that Trump supporters go through to act like people voted for this shit when they elected Trump.

[*bfine32*]

(01-07-2019, 08:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. And I missed something in your reply.  Trump promised Mexico would build the wall.  Why should WE not hold himto his promise.

2. If you took a job because you were promised a car paid for by the company would you be fine with being made to pay for the car instead?

3. Amazing the mental gymnastics that Trump supporters go through to act like people voted for this shit when they elected Trump.

1. Actually the phrase was Mexico will pay for it and you've been told numerous times how this could easily be spun to have merit.

2. If I were required to pay for the vehicle first, but yet received payments that more than paid for the car at a later date; then I'd be more understanding.

3. It is also amazing that the select few in here keep talking in abstract phrases. Apparently Trump is the first POTUS not to be able to fulfill a campaign promise as stated or maybe, just maybe mad folks hold him to a different standard. I suppose Obamacare is "acting like people voted for this shit"  because I get to keep my Doctor; even though he walked that back later.  

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2019, 09:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  I suppose Obamacare is "acting like people voted for this shit"  because I get to keep my Doctor; even though he walked that back later.  

Now I am confused.  Are you supporting the ACA because Obama was elected President when he promised health care reform and thus had a mandate?

[*bfine32*]

(01-07-2019, 09:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Now I am confused.  Are you supporting the ACA because Obama was elected President when he promised health care reform and thus had a mandate?

I'm simply pointing to the fact that Obama made a declarative that he could not keep. I'm sure he tried; whether I agree with ACA or not. 

I can do nothing further to soothe your confusion.  

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2019, 09:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm simply pointing to the fact that Obama made a declarative that he could not keep. I'm sure he tried; whether I agree with ACA or not. 

I can do nothing further to soothe your confusion.  

You have done plenty.  Based on your comments about a President having a mandate you have admitted that you can not be opposed to the ACA.

[*bfine32*]

(01-07-2019, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have done plenty.  Based on your comments about a President having a mandate you have admitted that you can not be opposed to the ACA.

I can personally be against it all I want; however, I cannot say we didn't vote in a POTUS that was for it. I never said Obama shouldn't enact ACA; it was a promise he made. 

[GMDino]

As we prepare for what should be a RIVETING and fact filled national address by the POTUS tonight...I wonder if matters to his supporters (or those who feel that must defend him) that he lies and makes up facts so much.

I know we've discussed this before but in this very specific case DJT has essentially made up an emergency using numbers that his own government and departments say are wrong.

Does that matter to you or are you are concerned about is that he be allowed to fulfill a campaign promise that the vast majority of American's do not want?

[BmorePat87]

(01-08-2019, 10:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: As we prepare for what should be a RIVETING and fact filled national address by the POTUS tonight...I wonder if matters to his supporters (or those who feel that must defend him) that he lies and makes up facts so much.

I know we've discussed this before but in this very specific case DJT has essentially made up an emergency using numbers that his own government and departments say are wrong.

Does that matter to you or are you are concerned about is that he be allowed to fulfill a campaign promise that the vast majority of American's do not want?

But you can keep your doctor...

[GMDino]

(01-08-2019, 11:00 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: But you can keep your doctor...

Good point.  One lie wipes out every other lie from the guy who lies all the time. 

[GMDino]

Odds that DJT still uses made up numbers and twists the facts tonight?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/01/08/trump-team-admits-mistakes-while-trying-tie-terrorism-southern-border/2512115002/

Quote:In the days leading up to President Donald Trump's televised address to the nation on Tuesday night to promote his southern border wall, administration officials have justified the proposal by claiming that thousands of terrorists are pouring across that border.



But data and analysis from his own administration have drastically undercut that message, calling into question whether the situation along the U.S.-Mexico border is truly a "national emergency" as Trump has increasingly claimed.


White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said on Friday that Customs and Border Protection officials caught nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists "that came across our southern border." She repeated that claim on talk shows throughout the weekend, and Vice President Mike Pence used the same data point during an appearance on "Good Morning America" on Tuesday.


But in the State Department's summary of global terrorism threats published in September, analysts concluded that there was "no credible evidence indicating that international terrorist groups...sent operatives via Mexico into the United States."


On Monday, NBC News reported that the number of known or suspected terrorists actually caught along the southern border by CBP in the first half of 2018 was about 1 percent of the Trump administration's claim. According to CBP data provided to Congress, the agency encountered 41 people on the Terrorist Screening Database from Oct. 1, 2017, to March 31, 2018, along the U.S.-Mexico border, with 35 of them being American citizens or lawful permanent residents and only six of them classified as non-U.S. persons.

Later Monday night, White House adviser Kellyanne Conway acknowledged during an appearance on Fox News that Sanders had been conflating two very different statistics while trying to make her argument. In fiscal year 2017, federal officials stopped 3,755 people on the terrorist watch list from traveling to or entering the United States, but that includes people traveling through airports, seaports and land ports. The vast majority of those attempt to enter by air. 


"That was an unfortunate misstatement," Conway said of Sanders. "Everybody makes mistakes, all of us. The fact is, it's corrected here."


In a statement on Monday, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said she did not provide an exact number of how many of those on the terrorist watch list were stopped at the southern border, saying it was “sensitive” and could not publicly be released. Yet Homeland Security has not disputed the accuracy of the NBC News report that found only 41 known or suspected terrorist were caught there.


As criticism of its terrorism statistics have increased in recent days, administration officials have started using another metric to warn of potential dangers crossing the border. 



In 2018, CBP agents encountered more than 3,000 "special interest aliens" at the southern border. That is a loose definition that does not indicate any kind of specific intelligence on that person, only that they've traveled to or come from 35 countries deemed to be of "special interest" following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks because of their historic ties to terrorism.


Nielsen cited those special interest aliens on Monday in a series of tweets warning that "the threat is real."

Quote:
[/url]Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen

@SecNielsen




The threat is real. The number of terror-watchlisted encountered at our Southern Border has increased over the last two years. The exact number is sensitive and details about these cases are extremely sensitive.

[url=https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1082441890224619521]16.2K
8:00 PM - Jan 7, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

But in a separate statement that followed those tweets, Nielsen made clear that being designated a "special interest alien" does not mean the person is a national security threat.



"This does not mean that all (special interest aliens) are 'terrorists,' but rather that the travel and behavior of such individuals indicates a possible nexus to nefarious activity (including terrorism) and, at a minimum, provides indicators that necessitate heightened screening and further investigation," she wrote. "The term (special interest alien) does not indicate any specific derogatory information about the individual — and DHS has never indicated that the (special interest alien) designation means more than that."

[GMDino]

Interactive map about the current fence/structures along the border.

https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us-mexico-interactive-border-map/

[*jason*]

(01-08-2019, 10:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: As we prepare for what should be a RIVETING and fact filled national address by the POTUS tonight...I wonder if matters to his supporters (or those who feel that must defend him) that he lies and makes up facts so much.

I know we've discussed this before but in this very specific case DJT has essentially made up an emergency using numbers that his own government and departments say are wrong.

Does that matter to you or are you are concerned about is that he be allowed to fulfill a campaign promise that the vast majority of American's do not want?

Here's what you don't seem to get...

"It's not a lie if you believe it to be true."
- Some Writer For Seinfeld

[*bfine32*]

(01-08-2019, 11:00 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: But you can keep your doctor...

(01-08-2019, 11:02 AM)GMDino Wrote: Good point.  One lie wipes out every other lie from the guy who lies all the time. 

I don't consider either a lie; just a Campaign promise they were each unable to keep as stated. As I said I'm sure they both tried/ are trying. Lying is not relevant to the conversation; however, relevance stops very few around here 

[*bfine32*]

(01-08-2019, 03:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: Interactive map about the current fence/structures along the border.

https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us-mexico-interactive-border-map/

So does Pelosi think we're already immoral as a Nation because we already have up barriers? 

[GMDino]

(01-08-2019, 03:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't consider either a lie; just a Campaign promise they were each unable to keep as stated. As I said I'm sure they both tried/ are trying. Lying is not relevant to the conversation; however, relevance stops very few around here 

Donald Trump has lied.  Completely and totally and with in a way that has been easily proven....repeatedly.

That's not a "campaign promise".

[*bfine32*]

(01-08-2019, 03:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: Donald Trump has lied.  Completely and totally and with in a way that has been easily proven....repeatedly.

That's not a "campaign promise".

Sure he's lied and Obama smoked and drank; but like I said, it's not relevant to the discussion at hand. Folks want to trot out liar because he stated Mexico would pay for the wall; will those same folks trot out liar when Obama said you can keep your doctor?

Personally I feel neither was lying and simply made promises they would work to keep. 

[BmorePat87]

(01-08-2019, 03:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't consider either a lie; just a Campaign promise they were each unable to keep as stated. As I said I'm sure they both tried/ are trying. Lying is not relevant to the conversation; however, relevance stops very few around here 

Dino was specifically referring to the misinformation surrounding the current narrative of a crisis at the border, a narrative where several administration officials have stated that 4,000 terrorists were caught at the border last year when only 6 were. That's why he said "in this very specific case DJT has essentially made up an emergency using numbers that his own government and departments say are wrong"

I tongue in cheek referenced Obama because multiple posters here have used that as a counter to outright lies told by Trump post campaign. 

[BmorePat87]

SHS got fact checked on the 4,000 terrorist number by Chris Wallace on Fox News on Sunday.

Mike Pence referenced the numbers today when defending the need for the border wall to John Karl on ABC. Karl corrected him on the fact that the number is referencing those caught elsewhere, not the border.