Faith

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-16-2015, 07:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...or Cigarette smoking. Man can absolutely kill each other; it's one of the first stories of the Old Testament. 

If cells copied themselves without mistakes we wouldn't have cancer.  The abnormal cell copies represent a design or a design flaw, but they cannot represent both simultaneously. 

Quote:Some folks choose to blame God and some folks choose to thank God. The non-believer really has no say; as they cannot give an opinion on something they do not believe in. They can just simply say "I don't believe". 

Operative word being "opinion."  You have an opinion about evolution even though you don't believe in evolution.  If you actually believed your above statement then you wouldn't have an opinion about evolution.  Your own actions prove your words false.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-16-2015, 07:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How do you know the cancer wasn't the result of exposure to made man products?

I don't. I'm have no clue what caused Lucy's friend's wife's cancer. Even if the disease is the result of man made products though, who made the disease?  Is it not the creation of the same being that created absolutely everything else on this planet?

[*bfine32*]

(09-16-2015, 08:44 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I don't. I'm have no clue what caused Lucy's friend's wife's cancer. Even if the disease is the result of man made products though, who made the disease?  Is it not the creation of the same being that created absolutely everything else on this planet?

There's a very good chance it is because man is interfering with God's design. For instance Skin Cancer increased by 77% between 1992 and 2006. Why do you think that happened? God is designing folks differently? Seems like if survival of the fittest is the plan these numbers should be decreasing. 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-16-2015, 08:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's a very good chance it is because man is interfering with God's design. For instance Skin Cancer increased by 77% between 1992 and 2006. Why do you think that happened? God is designing folks differently? Seems like if survival of the fittest is the plan these numbers should be decreasing. 

I don't really understand your first sentence. I don't see how cancer would be caused by humans interfering with the designs of a god.  The god would still have to create it, right?

I am well aware that skin cancer is on the rise, as are a lot of cancers.  I don't know the exact reason why humans are more susceptible to it now, but I do know that the primary cause is radiation from the sun. The most prominent source of light and energy for the planet is the sun.  Not only do we need it to survive, but it's also killing us. That seems like a huge design flaw, in my opinion.  

You're right though...the fact that we are evolving toward cancer instead of away from it seems at odds with natural selection.  I don't have a counter thought to this right now, but I'll definitely think about it, research it, and try to explain it to myself. If I come up with something, I'll post about it.

[Beaker]

(09-16-2015, 09:14 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You're right though...the fact that we are evolving toward cancer instead of away from it seems at odds with natural selection.  I don't have a counter thought to this right now, but I'll definitely think about it, research it, and try to explain it to myself. If I come up with something, I'll post about it.

I have a counter.

Humans are changing the selection pressure for which we have evolved. Not only are we changing the composition of the atmosphere....which acts to filter and scatter some of that radiation....but we are also staying inside more, reducing the amount of melanin in our skin which also helps shield us from UV damage. And there are still a large majority of humans who dont have skin cancer. That's natural selection in action....as conditions change, the natural genetic variation within a population of organisms means some are pretty much guaranteed to have some resistance to what conditions have changed. The population adapts as those organisms become the majority. 99% of a population could be wiped out, but the 1% that survives is the new majority and is better adapted to the new conditions.

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2015, 11:20 PM)Beaker Wrote: I have a counter.

Humans are changing the selection pressure for which we have evolved. Not only are we changing the composition of the atmosphere....which acts to filter and scatter some of that radiation....but we are also staying inside more, reducing the amount of melanin in our skin which also helps shield us from UV damage. And there are still a large majority of humans who dont have skin cancer. That's natural selection in action....as conditions change, the natural genetic variation within a population of organisms means some are pretty much guaranteed to have some resistance to what conditions have changed. The population adapts as those organisms become the majority. 99% of a population could be wiped out, but the 1% that survives is the new majority and is better adapted to the new conditions.

I have a better answer.

JESUS.

*drops mic*

Deal with it.

[*bfine32*]

(09-16-2015, 11:20 PM)Beaker Wrote: I have a counter.

Humans are changing the selection pressure for which we have evolved. Not only are we changing the composition of the atmosphere....which acts to filter and scatter some of that radiation....but we are also staying inside more, reducing the amount of melanin in our skin which also helps shield us from UV damage. And there are still a large majority of humans who dont have skin cancer. That's natural selection in action....as conditions change, the natural genetic variation within a population of organisms means some are pretty much guaranteed to have some resistance to what conditions have changed. The population adapts as those organisms become the majority. 99% of a population could be wiped out, but the 1% that survives is the new majority and is better adapted to the new conditions.

So we agree that it is a man-made issue and not a design issue; who woulda thunk it. 

[Benton]

(09-16-2015, 08:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's a very good chance it is because man is interfering with God's design. For instance Skin Cancer increased by 77% between 1992 and 2006. Why do you think that happened? God is designing folks differently? Seems like if survival of the fittest is the plan these numbers should be decreasing. 

The GOP maintained control of House of Representatives and Senate seats?

[GMDino]

(09-16-2015, 07:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...or Cigarette smoking. Man can absolutely kill each other; it's one of the first stories of the Old Testament. 

Some folks choose to blame God and some folks choose to thank God. The non-believer really has no say; as they cannot give an opinion on something they do not believe in. They can just simply say "I don't believe". 

You know cigarette are a gift from God...right?  I mean the product occurs naturally.  He created nature and all that jazz.

I've always wondered why people can't simply believe that God helped create the medicine that saved someone's life too.  Thank your creator, but realize that man has as much to do with it through learning to understand what it takes to save someone.

[GMDino]

(09-16-2015, 11:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So we agree that it is a man-made issue and not a design issue; who woulda thunk it. 

Kinda like how skin cancer rates went up when man started destroying the ozone layer.

And how global warming is at least in part aided by man made acts,

Who woulda thunk it?

[Rotobeast]

(09-16-2015, 11:34 PM)Benton Wrote: The GOP maintained control of House of Representatives and Senate seats?

And they allowed tanning beds to run rampant through the 80's &90's.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-16-2015, 08:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's a very good chance it is because man is interfering with God's design. For instance Skin Cancer increased by 77% between 1992 and 2006. Why do you think that happened? God is designing folks differently? Seems like if survival of the fittest is the plan these numbers should be decreasing. 

Whose design?  God's design.  In a world of intelligent design where everything works "perfectly" together; God designed cancer, designed carcinogens, designed the whole system of who, what, where, when, why, and how of cancer.

I have zero confidence in your ability to read and comprehend anything remotely related to science, so I'm going to need to read your skin cancer reference for myself.  Survival of the fittest is a simple way of describing natural selection (evolution).  Your skin cancer statistic doesn't reflect how it affected mortality or whether it affected the person's ability to reproduce IOT affect "survival of the fittest" (e.g. natural selection/evolution.)  That statistic reflects the morbidity of a single disease only.  Regardless, currently there are more people living longer than ever before despite your misuse of a statistic out of context to support an incorrect POV.

To review, the sun is most common cause (the sun's UV radiation) of the most common cancer (melanoma) in the US.   According to ID, God designed the sun, hydrogen fusion, hydrogen, the other elements, compounds, molecules, atoms, subatomic particles, chemical and molecular bonds, UV radiation along with the remaining spectrum of visible and nonvisible radiation, the solar system and the physics of the solar system, the Earth, the Earth's atmosphere, the biosphere, humans, human skin, skin cells and cell components, molecular biology, chemistry, physiology, genetic material, genetic replication and expression, phenotypes and genotypes, etc, etc.  Before god designed all of this, cancer didn't exist.  Cancer is his brain child.  Unless you're point is he went to all that trouble designing all those things and his design if so delicate Man is effin' up his plan.  Is that your point?  Well, Man can't throw a monkey wrench into his plan unless he planned it.  And if he planned it that way then it was part of the plan all along.

If skin cancer increased by 77% between 1992 and 2006, it is because he planned it that way.  Right?  Everything happens according to his plan.  Right?  IF humans can interfere with his perfect, divine plan to increase the rate of skin cancer; humans are only affecting his design.  Humans are only affecting his design the way he designed  humans could affect his design.  Which is by design.

But, by all means, the next time you go to a cancer victim's funeral and someone inevitably tells the deceased's family "everything happens according to God's plan," you make sure you ask them, "How do you know the cancer wasn't man made?"  I'm sure they will appreciate your POV.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-16-2015, 11:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So we agree that it is a man-made issue and not a design issue; who woulda thunk it. 

Beaker just explained how evolution works.  You don't believe in evolution.

If you don't believe in evolution then Beaker's explanation is false, therefore it can't be a man made issue.  If you believe Beaker's explanation is true then you believe in evolution.  Evolution isn't a man made issue.  Evolution is a god issue. 

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2015, 11:34 PM)Benton Wrote: The GOP maintained control of House of Representatives and Senate seats?

(09-17-2015, 10:25 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: And they allowed tanning beds to run rampant through the 80's &90's.

[*bfine32*]

(09-17-2015, 10:31 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Whose design?  God's design.  In a world of intelligent design where everything works "perfectly" together; God designed cancer, designed carcinogens, designed the whole system of who, what, where, when, why, and how of cancer.

I have zero confidence in your ability to read and comprehend anything remotely related to science, so I'm going to need to read your skin cancer reference for myself.  Survival of the fittest is a simple way of describing natural selection (evolution).  Your skin cancer statistic doesn't reflect how it affected mortality or whether it affected the person's ability to reproduce IOT affect "survival of the fittest" (e.g. natural selection/evolution.)  That statistic reflects the morbidity of a single disease only.  Regardless, currently there are more people living longer than ever before despite your misuse of a statistic out of context to support an incorrect POV.

To review, the sun is most common cause (the sun's UV radiation) of the most common cancer (melanoma) in the US.   According to ID, God designed the sun, hydrogen fusion, hydrogen, the other elements, compounds, molecules, atoms, subatomic particles, chemical and molecular bonds, UV radiation along with the remaining spectrum of visible and nonvisible radiation, the solar system and the physics of the solar system, the Earth, the Earth's atmosphere, the biosphere, humans, human skin, skin cells and cell components, molecular biology, chemistry, physiology, genetic material, genetic replication and expression, phenotypes and genotypes, etc, etc.  Before god designed all of this, cancer didn't exist.  Cancer is his brain child.  Unless you're point is he went to all that trouble designing all those things and his design if so delicate Man is effin' up his plan.  Is that your point?  Well, Man can't throw a monkey wrench into his plan unless he planned it.  And if he planned it that way then it was part of the plan all along.

If skin cancer increased by 77% between 1992 and 2006, it is because he planned it that way.  Right?  Everything happens according to his plan.  Right?  IF humans can interfere with his perfect, divine plan to increase the rate of skin cancer; humans are only affecting his design.  Humans are only affecting his design the way he designed  humans could affect his design.  Which is by design.

But, by all means, the next time you go to a cancer victim's funeral and someone inevitably tells the deceased's family "everything happens according to God's plan," you make sure you ask them, "How do you know the cancer wasn't man made?"  I'm sure they will appreciate your POV.

I read all of this twice and still didn't see a reasonable point. So your logic for the non-existence of God is everything isn't perfect? 

[*bfine32*]

(09-17-2015, 10:37 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Beaker just explained how evolution works.  You don't believe in evolution.

If you don't believe in evolution then Beaker's explanation is false, therefore it can't be a man made issue.  If you believe Beaker's explanation is true then you believe in evolution.  Evolution isn't a man made issue.  Evolution is a god issue. 

Did this make sense in your head?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-18-2015, 12:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I read all of this twice and still didn't see a reasonable point. So your logic for the non-existence of God is everything isn't perfect? 

No.  I didn't write a single thing about the non-existence of god.  On the one hand, you claim god created "everything."  On the other, you claim god isn't responsible for cancer.  "Everything" includes cancer.  God created cancer.  If man can influence cancer, it is because god created it so.  Enough with this "man made cancer" crap.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-18-2015, 12:16 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Did this make sense in your head?

Yes.  It's pretty simple.  Similar to a geometry proof.  I understand why you don't understand.

[*bfine32*]

(09-18-2015, 12:26 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No.  I didn't write a single thing about the non-existence of god.  On the one hand, you claim god created "everything."  On the other, you claim god isn't responsible for cancer.  "Everything" includes cancer.  God created cancer.  If man can influence cancer, it is because god created it so.  Enough with this "man made cancer" crap.

Who ever said God did not create cancer? 

[*bfine32*]

(09-18-2015, 12:32 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Yes.  It's pretty simple.  Similar to a geometry proof.  I understand why you don't understand.

Oh, I don't doubt it's simple. It just makes no sense.