Fixing the Public Schools k-12

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-07-2016, 12:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: Heck it's hard for those of us who WANT to be involved to do things because the school will schedule things to start at 4 or 5 in the afternoon and we both work until 5.

I understand that, please read my latest post.

[GMDino]

(12-07-2016, 12:53 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I understand that, please read my latest post.

I will.  Wasn't trying to argue, just agreeing with Matt that it's difficult.

[BmorePat87]

As a teacher, it was hard to watch the Betsy DeVos hearing for her appointment as Secretary of Education.

She suggested that enforcing IDEA, which requires schools receiving federal funding to meet the needs of students with disabilities, should be decided by the states. Either she does not know that it is a federal law, she does not understand what it does and how it is one of the most important education laws in history, or she thinks states should be allowed to get rid of special education programs.

She couldn't explain the difference between growth and proficiency when questioned about assessments.

She could not give any background she has in working with loans, student loans, or financial aid.

She would not agree that charter schools and public schools should have to meet the same requirements if they both receive federal funds, implying that charter schools should keep less stringent requirements. She donated to Michigan politicians who opposed oversight of Detroit charter schools which, on average, performed below public schools in Detroit.

It is unclear if she is still invested in one of the largest for-profit education companies that provided services to charter schools.

She told Senator Murphy from Connecticut that she supports Trump's intentions to get rid of gun free school zones, citing the need to defend against grizzly bears in Wyoming, to which he responded, "I invite you to Connecticut to tell us that", invoking the memory of Sandy Hook.

She could not commit to not sending public funds to private and religious schools.


It's hard to take someone seriously when they have no experience in how public schools are run, they do not understand concepts learned in 100 level education courses, they make money off of charter schools not being well regulated and want more poorly regulated charter schools in this country. I like charter schools. They work when they're good. The last thing we need is to take money away from public schools and give them to charter schools that are allowed to fail students and give their CEOs payouts.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-18-2017, 12:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: As a teacher, it was hard to watch the Betsy DeVos hearing for her appointment as Secretary of Education.

She suggested that enforcing IDEA, which requires schools receiving federal funding to meet the needs of students with disabilities, should be decided by the states. Either she does not know that it is a federal law, she does not understand what it does and how it is one of the most important education laws in history, or she thinks states should be allowed to get rid of special education programs.

She couldn't explain the difference between growth and proficiency when questioned about assessments.

She could not give any background she has in working with loans, student loans, or financial aid.

She would not agree that charter schools and public schools should have to meet the same requirements if they both receive federal funds, implying that charter schools should keep less stringent requirements. She donated to Michigan politicians who opposed oversight of Detroit charter schools which, on average, performed below public schools in Detroit.

It is unclear if she is still invested in one of the largest for-profit education companies that provided services to charter schools.

She told Senator Murphy from Connecticut that she supports Trump's intentions to get rid of gun free school zones, citing the need to defend against grizzly bears in Wyoming, to which he responded, "I invite you to Connecticut to tell us that", invoking the memory of Sandy Hook.

She could not commit to not sending public funds to private and religious schools.


It's hard to take someone seriously when they have no experience in how public schools are run, they do not understand concepts learned in 100 level education courses, they make money off of charter schools not being well regulated and want more poorly regulated charter schools in this country.  I like charter schools. They work when they're good. The last thing we need is to take money away from public schools and give them to charter schools that are allowed to fail students and give their CEOs payouts.

Now you done it.  Welcome to Trump's twitter list.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-18-2017, 12:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Now you done it.  Welcome to Trump's twitter list.  

LOL, he does have good points though, I watched some of it and was shocked.

Even I have a basic understanding of Proficiency vs Growth.
Pat, Let me know if I'm in the ball park or out of it and note that this is a raw definition, not a scholarly definition.

Proficiency is how good as student is now vs his peers.
Growth is how well a student has does since the last time they were tested on the same subject matter.

Feel free to correct me.

[BmorePat87]

(01-18-2017, 12:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: LOL, he does have good points though, I watched some of it and was shocked.

Even I have a basic understanding of Proficiency vs Growth.
Pat, Let me know if I'm in the ball park or out of it and note that this is a raw definition, not a scholarly definition.

Proficiency is how good as student is now vs his peers.
Growth is how well a student has does since the last time they were tested on the same subject matter.

Feel free to correct me.

In a way, but to be more specific about proficiency, it's "does this student meet this goal/benchmark/standard by the end of this quarter/year/etc". Those benchmarks are based off of past performances of peers, but not current peer performance. So it just depends on what you mean by "peers". 

Proficiency: Can Johnny read at the 3rd grade level by May?
Growth: How much did Johnny's reading level increase from September to May?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-18-2017, 01:01 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: In a way, but to be more specific about proficiency, it's "does this student meet this goal/benchmark/standard by the end of this quarter/year/etc". Those benchmarks are based off of past performances of peers, but not current peer performance. So it just depends on what you mean by "peers". 

Proficiency: Can Johnny read at the 3rd grade level by May?
Growth: How much did Johnny's reading level increase from September to May?

Ok thanks for the clarification. Yes it makes more sense to use the previous years students as a base line for the Proficiency side. :andy:

[GMDino]

[Griever]

(01-18-2017, 12:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: As a teacher, it was hard to watch the Betsy DeVos hearing for her appointment as Secretary of Education.

She suggested that enforcing IDEA, which requires schools receiving federal funding to meet the needs of students with disabilities, should be decided by the states. Either she does not know that it is a federal law, she does not understand what it does and how it is one of the most important education laws in history, or she thinks states should be allowed to get rid of special education programs.

She couldn't explain the difference between growth and proficiency when questioned about assessments.

She could not give any background she has in working with loans, student loans, or financial aid.

She would not agree that charter schools and public schools should have to meet the same requirements if they both receive federal funds, implying that charter schools should keep less stringent requirements. She donated to Michigan politicians who opposed oversight of Detroit charter schools which, on average, performed below public schools in Detroit.

It is unclear if she is still invested in one of the largest for-profit education companies that provided services to charter schools.

She told Senator Murphy from Connecticut that she supports Trump's intentions to get rid of gun free school zones, citing the need to defend against grizzly bears in Wyoming, to which he responded, "I invite you to Connecticut to tell us that", invoking the memory of Sandy Hook.

She could not commit to not sending public funds to private and religious schools.


It's hard to take someone seriously when they have no experience in how public schools are run, they do not understand concepts learned in 100 level education courses, they make money off of charter schools not being well regulated and want more poorly regulated charter schools in this country.  I like charter schools. They work when they're good. The last thing we need is to take money away from public schools and give them to charter schools that are allowed to fail students and give their CEOs payouts.

welcome to trumps cabinet

[Benton]

(01-18-2017, 12:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: As a teacher, it was hard to watch the Betsy DeVos hearing for her appointment as Secretary of Education.

She suggested that enforcing IDEA, which requires schools receiving federal funding to meet the needs of students with disabilities, should be decided by the states. Either she does not know that it is a federal law, she does not understand what it does and how it is one of the most important education laws in history, or she thinks states should be allowed to get rid of special education programs.

She couldn't explain the difference between growth and proficiency when questioned about assessments.

She could not give any background she has in working with loans, student loans, or financial aid.

She would not agree that charter schools and public schools should have to meet the same requirements if they both receive federal funds, implying that charter schools should keep less stringent requirements. She donated to Michigan politicians who opposed oversight of Detroit charter schools which, on average, performed below public schools in Detroit.

It is unclear if she is still invested in one of the largest for-profit education companies that provided services to charter schools.

She told Senator Murphy from Connecticut that she supports Trump's intentions to get rid of gun free school zones, citing the need to defend against grizzly bears in Wyoming, to which he responded, "I invite you to Connecticut to tell us that", invoking the memory of Sandy Hook.

She could not commit to not sending public funds to private and religious schools.


It's hard to take someone seriously when they have no experience in how public schools are run, they do not understand concepts learned in 100 level education courses, they make money off of charter schools not being well regulated and want more poorly regulated charter schools in this country.  I like charter schools. They work when they're good. The last thing we need is to take money away from public schools and give them to charter schools that are allowed to fail students and give their CEOs payouts.

I didn't watch it, but I've been reading about her what I can.

Honestly, so far, I thought she was one of the better picks. Having been experienced with charter schools — which are the direction the country is going whether it's right or not — maybe she can steer away from the problems. And honestly, the biggest knock critics/columnists seem to have with charter schools is that they test pretty closely to public schools (which brings up the valid question of whether or not it's worth it to steer public dollars to private pockets, but, again, that's the direction voters seem to want to go).

The statement about needing to defend about grizzly bears is pretty irresponsible, though.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-19-2017, 01:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I didn't watch it, but I've been reading about her what I can.

Honestly, so far, I thought she was one of the better picks. Having been experienced with charter schools — which are the direction the country is going whether it's right or not — maybe she can steer away from the problems. And honestly, the biggest knock critics/columnists seem to have with charter schools is that they test pretty closely to public schools (which brings up the valid question of whether or not it's worth it to steer public dollars to private pockets, but, again, that's the direction voters seem to want to go).

The statement about needing to defend about grizzly bears is pretty irresponsible, though.

The reason the public wants to go this route, is because many inner city schools are not very good. Giving the parents a choice is the only offer they can come up with. I'd rather build up those inner-city schools, but that takes time and parents want results now. Whether the parent chooses the charter school option or not, they at least feel like they have a choice. The majority probably won't take an advantage of that, but some will.

If she can make it past the hearing, then her biggest enemy is going to be the Teachers Union.

[Belsnickel]

I have to say that one of my biggest issues with her is her not agreeing that all schools, whether public or private, should be held to the same accountability standards if they receive federal funds. This has been something I have been in favor of for a long time.

A lot of her answers were very concerning and showed a lack of understanding of the field of education.

[GMDino]

(01-19-2017, 01:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I didn't watch it, but I've been reading about her what I can.

Honestly, so far, I thought she was one of the better picks. Having been experienced with charter schools — which are the direction the country is going whether it's right or not — maybe she can steer away from the problems. And honestly, the biggest knock critics/columnists seem to have with charter schools is that they test pretty closely to public schools (which brings up the valid question of whether or not it's worth it to steer public dollars to private pockets, but, again, that's the direction voters seem to want to go).

The statement about needing to defend about grizzly bears is pretty irresponsible, though.

She has zero ideas on how to fix the problems other than...let a private school handle it.

And private schools won't take the worst students.  
And private schools won't build in inner cities.

And the problems will still be there and there will less funding for the most troubled.

She's a joke.

But she's rich and contributed to the people voting for her so that's what we'll get.

[Benton]

(01-19-2017, 01:49 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The reason the public wants to go this route, is because many inner city schools are not very good. Giving the parents a choice is the only offer they can come up with. I'd rather build up those inner-city schools, but that takes time and parents want results now. Whether the parent chooses the charter school option or not, they at least feel like they have a choice. The majority probably won't take an advantage of that, but some will.

If she can make it past the hearing, then her biggest enemy is going to be the Teachers Union.

To the bold, inner city schools typically have the best performers and worst performers. So, the case can be made that many inner city schools are very good... they're also just very bad. One of the criticisms of charter schools is it allows parents with means to move their kids into charter schools, but doesn't allow families of low incomes.

So you end up with charter schools of kids from a higher income bracket who test about the same as kids at the poorer inner city school. In the end, you're just shuffling tax dollars so "rich" kids don't have to go to school with "poor" kids. And there's valid points for and against that, too. I'm a big proponent of life skills learning (firearm safety education, home ec, basic carpentry, etc). Kids likely to stay in urban Louisville or St Louis aren't going to benefit as much from some of those classes, so having an inner city school that teaches carpentry isn't as good a use of resources as teaching that in a rural district. It might be using that money you could keep computer labs or libraries open longer, or offer life skills classes.

As far as the teachers, I dunno. I doubt teachers at a national level will strike. And if they do, I'm afraid the department will just have more over reach and tell states to lift teaching requirements. Which I wouldn't ultimately be surprised if that happens in the future anyway. It's hard to get people with degrees to work for half or a third of what they would make otherwise, and districts aren't going to pay more.

(01-19-2017, 01:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have to say that one of my biggest issues with her is her not agreeing that all schools, whether public or private, should be held to the same accountability standards if they receive federal funds. This has been something I have been in favor of for a long time.

A lot of her answers were very concerning and showed a lack of understanding of the field of education.

I think most districts/states will keep moving towards Common Core, regardless of what happens at the federal level. Which isn't exactly the same as your post, but it's still moving in the right direction.

[GMDino]

[Rotobeast]

Maybe her nomination is a master plan.
She gets in, she cuts, changes multiple policies, generates massive butt-hurt, and nobody complains when the Federal Department of Education is eliminated.

I'm not going to complain, if that happens.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[BmorePat87]

(01-19-2017, 01:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I didn't watch it, but I've been reading about her what I can.

Honestly, so far, I thought she was one of the better picks. Having been experienced with charter schools — which are the direction the country is going whether it's right or not — maybe she can steer away from the problems. And honestly, the biggest knock critics/columnists seem to have with charter schools is that they test pretty closely to public schools (which brings up the valid question of whether or not it's worth it to steer public dollars to private pockets, but, again, that's the direction voters seem to want to go).

The statement about needing to defend about grizzly bears is pretty irresponsible, though.

The problem with that reasoning for her is that she supports charter schools that have no oversight. Even when they began to do worse than public schools in Detroit, she was giving money to politicians who opposed oversight measures. 

Her experience is investing in companies that profit off of charter schools and putting money towards charter schools, not the actual running of schools or ensuring that the schools are educating kids. 

Charter schools themselves are not bad. Poorly regulated charter schools, like Detroit's, are bad. 

[Benton]

(01-19-2017, 08:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote:   . 

Charter schools themselves are not bad. Poorly regulated charter schools, like Detroit's, are bad. 

I agree with this.

and fwiw, I downloaded her comments (can't really call it a conversation when she just repeated the same thing ). Wow that was bad. How bad? Al Franken had to educate her on what the conversation was about.

[*Nately120*]

The teaching union needs to be destroyed. McDonalds doesn't have unionized employees and you never hear anyone complain about the service there. Also, teachers make too much money BUT should also be trained and expected to be able to neutralize heavily-armed attackers. I will volunteer all of your tax dollars to buy each of the 3 million public school teachers in the USA at least one gun.

[BmorePat87]

We took a few steps backwards today when Mike Pence made history by breaking a 50-50 tie in the Senate on the confirmation of Betsy Devoe, making it the first time the VP has ever had a break a tie on a cabinet position.

Republicans put party over children when they voted 50-2 to confirm someone whose only experience in education is that they donated money to promote charter schools and help the online charter school service provider business they're invested in.

While the state she spent the billions she inherited on continues to struggle, she went before the Senate and managed to confuse basic education concepts and suggest that the federal mandate that ensures disabled children get an education should be left to the states to decide if they want to enforce it. If Republicans wanted someone who was tough on the unions, supportive of charters, and had experience, they would have demanded Michelle Rhees or any other charter school advocate who has actual experience.

Instead they kept their mouths shut and voted to confirm someone on the merit of their bank account alone.