Florida Schools to Tell Kids Slavery Benefited Black People

[basballguy]

(07-31-2023, 02:41 PM)Dill Wrote: Why are you assuming the later insertions into the curriculum were "clarifications"? 

Nothing is "clarified" by adding that slaves may have learned some skills under slavery. 

Nor is anything clarified by adding that some blacks may have killed some whites during a white massacre of blacks.
Why would you do that, unless you were trying to block any lessons that might be learned from recognizing how
racism continued to operate even after the war? 

As I mentioned in a previous post, there are people who feel "blamed" by accurate history of slavery. 

They mitigate this by reminding everyone that "whites" weren't the only ones who had slaves--as if anyone were arguing that.
What you are calling "clarifications" appear to be additions that all go in this direction over the objections of historians.

It's not like committee members were all going over the Tulsa Race Massacre and then some historian said --Oh wait, we forgot to add that one
Black guy killed a white guy in self defense as hundreds were slaughtered and their homes burnt." What would that "clarify"? 

Courses on WWII often cover the Warsaw uprising. The point of teaching that is to show that oppression of others based on racial
distinction is bad. We don't want to do that again. What would be "clarified" if we add that Jews learned fighting skills
in the Ghetto and that, when it came to killing, "both sides" had blood on their hands? Rather, something is BLURRED. 

Some still subscribe to the notion that slavery was not all that bad. The ante-bellum South was a happy, organic society.
They want people to stop harping on all the negatives, the beating, rape, stolen children and stolen labor. The additions
appear sympathetic to this point of view. Hence the outrage--about blurring, not clarification.

I think the difference between you and I is you seemingly want to see malicious intent....whereas, based on a tremendous amount of experience, I'm offering a rather simple explanation.  

People hellbent on seeing evil are always gonna find ways to spin it that way.  I prefer to just not assume the worst of everything that doesn't meet my ideologies.  

If you want to go through life just being mad at the world (not you personally) then fine, but this, to me, is what some on this board would call a "nothingburger"...but since it's Florida, we'll virtue signal to our death.

[Lucidus]

(07-31-2023, 03:17 PM)basballguy Wrote: I think the difference between you and I is you seemingly want to see malicious intent....whereas, based on a tremendous amount of experience, I'm offering a rather simple explanation.  

People hellbent on seeing evil are always gonna find ways to spin it that way.  I prefer to just not assume the worst of everything that doesn't meet my ideologies.  

If you want to go through life just being mad at the world (not you personally) then fine, but this, to me, is what some on this board would call a "nothingburger"...but since it's Florida, we'll virtue signal to our death.

Respectfully, your claims seem rather contradictory:

the difference between you and I is you seemingly want to see malicious intent...

This is utter nonsense and it's a shame some of y'all will blindly believe it.

I prefer to just not assume the worst of everything that doesn't meet my ideologies.  

Manufactured outrage....as usual. 

[basballguy]

(07-31-2023, 03:44 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Respectfully, your claims seem rather contradictory:

the difference between you and I is you seemingly want to see malicious intent...

This is utter nonsense and it's a shame some of y'all will blindly believe it.

I prefer to just not assume the worst of everything that doesn't meet my ideologies.  

Manufactured outrage....as usual. 

Doesn't seem that way to me.....OH...lol....i see how you got there.  Not quite the same in my head but definitely get it.  

[Dill]

(07-31-2023, 03:17 PM)basballguy Wrote: I think the difference between you and I is you seemingly want to see malicious intent....whereas, based on a tremendous amount of experience, I'm offering a rather simple explanation.  

People hellbent on seeing evil are always gonna find ways to spin it that way.  I prefer to just not assume the worst of everything that doesn't meet my ideologies.  

If you want to go through life just being mad at the world (not you personally) then fine, but this, to me, is what some on this board would call a "nothingburger"...but since it's Florida, we'll virtue signal to our death.

You are "seeing evil" when you pronounce responses to the curriculum "manufactured outrage" though, aren't you? 
Surely that is seeing "malicious intent."

You did say that you don't have much context for understanding what the conflict is about.
I supplied some. And also an explanation for why what you call "clarification" blurs more than it clarifies.

Lucidus has offered critical background as well. The people who intervened to make the changes were not historians but people who, in your terms, wanted the curriculum to "meet their ideologies." They were placed on the curriculum board by DeSantis. There's no vacuum of information forcing us to "assume" anything about the their background or the changes they wanted made that isn't actually there. 

Seems like my focus has not been on some intent "I want to see," but rather on facts of the case, and the logic, norms and goals of historical inquiry. That is my "ideology," and it should be the basis of any history curricula as well in modern secular public schools. 

You've neither addressed nor disputed any of my account, which you might do by explaining what is clarified about a massacre of black people if we learn that blacks killed some whites too. Are we to understand "both sides did it"?  Maybe not the best message in an era of false equivalence. 

You prefer instead "a simpler explanation" which accepts what I have called "blurring" rather than clarification, and shifts the "spin" charges FROM the people intervening in the curriculum to "meet their ideology" at the behest of the governor, TO the people who originally constructed the curriculum without those interventions, and to the people who defend the original curriculum. 

I'm all for simpler explanations, but if they are too simple to account for the facts as they stand, then they are not really "explaining" are they? They are performing some other work. 

[GMDino]

1. @RonDeSantis just sent a letter to @KamalaHarris requesting a meeting to discuss Florida's new Black history curriculum

DeSantis said he would bring along William Allen, who helped write the curriculum

Who is William Allen?

We took a deep dive

And it's a WILD ride

? pic.twitter.com/GWMKPF7JMX

— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) August 1, 2023

 

3. In the speech, Allen said creating legal protections for minority groups “is the beginning of the evil of reducing American blacks to an equality with animals and then seducing other groups to seek the same charitable treatment.''

— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) August 1, 2023

[GMDino]

The co-author of DeSantis’s Black History standards is named Frances P. Rice.

She is a far-right activist who fueled Prager University and home-school curriculum with misleading lessons that focus on Black guilt and heroic white abolitionists.

For example: pic.twitter.com/1j6PNiqYzS

— Jordan Zakarin (@jordanzakarin) August 1, 2023

 

[Dill]

(08-01-2023, 11:10 AM)GMDino Wrote:

Um, that picture of "Anthony Johnson"-- 

someone who arrived in Jamestown in 1619 (or 1622) is wearing a mid-19th century bowtie? 

in a lithograph, a printing technology not invented until 1796?

Agendaless message to grade schoolers--Slavery: "Both sides" did it.  

Black teacher is the cherry on top.

Wonder if she'll get around to explaining what happened to Johnson's 250 acres. 

[GMDino]

?MUST-WATCH: “They died penniless… their skills meant little in society once they no longer belonged to a white man… NO REDEEMING QUALITIES TO SLAVERY.”@garrison_hayes debunks Florida's slavery argument with labor that built Tennessee’s Capitol???️pic.twitter.com/etTVeFH2ir

— The Tennessee Holler (@TheTNHoller) August 12, 2023

 

[GreenDragon]

If you google "white washing" it links to this story. Holy sh--!