For those of you wanting to Make America Great Again

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Which era were you thinking of as we sit here with a 21% corporate tax rate?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-21-2024, 06:21 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Which era were you thinking of as we sit here with a 21% corporate tax rate?

I get what you're driving at here, but it's odd that the 90's saw a huge budget surplus and a thriving economy.  At least it appears contradictory to the point you are trying to make.  To declare a position I don't think anyone should be paying more than 50% in taxes, regardless of how much they make.  But I'd absolutely be in favor of closing tax loopholes so the rich actually pay that percentage.

[Luvnit2]

I don't need an era; I look back to 2019.

Border is secure and asylum seekers are in Mexico and not the US. Border patrol is not overwhelmed because. Trump policies prevent asylum seekers to enter US. The US government was not encouraging more migrants to cross illegally into the US by promising, food, shelter and even phones to tape raping a 13-year-old girl in NY. It would be more secure if Biden had not stopped building the wall and fighting Trump's goal to stop illegal immigrants entering the US. Democrats and Biden did not lift a finger to keep asylum seekers in Mexico, in fact just the opposite lifting 84 Trump executive orders stopping migrants on day one of Biden's presidency.

Inflation is less than 1% and year over year inflation ends up being 5.4% during the Trump era. Inflation is around 20% for Biden in less than 4 years and still rising.

Wages outpaced inflation by over 3% in the Trump era. Under Biden, inflation outpaces wages by almost 3% or a 6% decline for the lower and middle class in wage growth under Biden.

Isis was destroyed and Trump kept Iran, Russia and N. Korea at bay. Now, we have Russia attacking Ukraine again (also did it under Obama). You have Iran using proxies to attack Israel. Trump had Iran broke, Biden lifted the financial sanctions, have them billions of dollars they used to attack our closest ally in the middle east. The middle east was calm under Trump, not under Biden a dumpster fire.

The Trump era saw taxes cut for all Americans, not just for the rich and famous. An average family of 4 saved $4000 in income taxes under Trump since 2018. Biden has vowed to end the lower- and middle-class tax cuts. In the end if Democrats and Biden end tax cuts, they are raising taxes on the lower and middle class,

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(06-21-2024, 07:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I get what you're driving at here, but it's odd that the 90's saw a huge budget surplus and a thriving economy.  At least it appears contradictory to the point you are trying to make. 

LOL

Irony.

It's EXACTLY the point that I'm trying to make, so, thank you very much.

The 90s began with 28% and ended with 40% and a budget surplus.

Can you explain to me how that is odd to you?

Quote:To declare a position I don't think anyone should be paying more than 50% in taxes, regardless of how much they make.  But I'd absolutely be in favor of closing tax loopholes so the rich actually pay that percentage.

100% agreed.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(06-21-2024, 07:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't need an era; I look back to 2019.

Three more years!!!
Three more years!!!

Basically, Trump didn't screw it up too much until he did. He's awesome until a crisis. Highlighting how good you thought that it was until he was faced with a dilemma that was not self inflicted is not really a selling point for a four year job.

[*pally*]

Don’t you love how a Trump supporter always manages to ignore 2020. It’s like he had a 3 year term and Biden had a 5 year term.

Hey Luvnit, what happened in 2020? You want to talk about riots? Worst murder rates in decades? Double digit unemployment? An economy that ground to a halt? Freezer trucks with dead bodies? If your guy gets all the credit for the good, he gets to take responsibility for the bad.

Can you tell us the state of the economy on Jan 21 2017 vs Jan 21 2021? Did Trump have to fix a broken economy or manage a stable one?

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-21-2024, 06:21 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Which era were you thinking of as we sit here with a 21% corporate tax rate?

I think most would agree that loopholes need to be closed for big businesses as the first step.

The second part has to come in slashing government spending, as a good faith position for wanting to take in more money. If the government is spending 3 trillion more a year than what is collected in taxes, why would anyone be on board with, or see the need for the government to take more money from the private sector?

Cure the spending problem.

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-22-2024, 07:31 AM)pally Wrote: Don’t you love how a Trump supporter always manages to ignore 2020. It’s like he had a 3 year term and Biden had a 5 year term.

Hey Luvnit, what happened in 2020? You want to talk about riots? Worst murder rates in decades? Double digit unemployment? An economy that ground to a halt? Freezer trucks with dead bodies? If your guy gets all the credit for the good, he gets to take responsibility for the bad.

Can you tell us the state of the economy on Jan 21 2017 vs Jan 21 2021? Did Trump have to fix a broken economy or manage a stable one?

Yea but the upward trend-line for border crossings under Trump stopped in 2020. So can you just play along and pretend he worked magic and was an immigration control genius. That way we can ignore that crossings were trending up in 2019.

All we need is a global pandemic and international fear to set in and we can make a special rule and shut the border. 2020 was probably a close second choice for MAGArific years considering the #1 issue was finally solved.

[HarleyDog]

Change the tax laws and quit bitching about it.

[Luvnit2]

(06-21-2024, 07:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I get what you're driving at here, but it's odd that the 90's saw a huge budget surplus and a thriving economy.  At least it appears contradictory to the point you are trying to make.  To declare a position I don't think anyone should be paying more than 50% in taxes, regardless of how much they make.  But I'd absolutely be in favor of closing tax loopholes so the rich actually pay that percentage.

I learned in business a long time ago; you can't cash in percentages at the bank.

Would you rather have a business that does 1 million in sales and takes in 20% in profit. Or a business that does 1.5 million in sales and takes in 15% in profit? I will take the latter, even though the percent of profit is less.
Example 1 = 200K in profit
Example 2 = 225K in profit

I keep hearing liberals want the rich to pay a higher percent of their profit in taxes, but the reality is simple.

A couple with a net income of $100,000 and pays 20% in taxes pays $20K to the government in taxes.
A business with a net income of 1,000,000 and pays 20% in taxes pays $200K in taxes. Have the company 25% in taxes and now it is $250K they pay.

This does not include all of the other taxes they pay on top line sales

SUTA - State Unemployment Taxes - 2.5% (on average_
FUTA - Federal unemployment taxes - 1.7% on average
FICA - Social Security Match and Medicare match on each employee's income up to $108,000 (7.85%)
Worker's Compensation Taxes - 3.2%
There are others also, but do the math, a company paying 25% federal tax + just the ones mentioned is really paying an 15.25% in taxes or overall, 40.25% in taxes

In my example for the business of $1,000,000 they are paying over $400,000 of their profit in taxes. Keep in mind, most companies also have debt, yes the interest paid on debt is tax deductible, but the principle is not. My point being those not in business would be shocked to see this business due to debt could be losing money, they are not making the huge profits many believe they do. My example is for a smaller business. 

The problem is the smaller businesses are under the same tax structure as an Apple or other larger corporations.

[Luvnit2]

(06-22-2024, 08:21 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yea but the upward trend-line for border crossings under Trump stopped in 2020. So can you just play along and pretend he worked magic and was an immigration control genius. That way we can ignore that crossings were trending up in 2019.

All we need is a global pandemic and international fear to set in and we can make a special rule and shut the border. 2020 was probably a close second choice for MAGArific years considering the #1 issue was finally solved.

We know under Biden there were 1.9 million got aways since he took office and another 10 million who were given asylum for illegally crossing the border.

Please show us the exact number of illegal immigrants who got into the US each year under Trump, I think you will find your comments are wrong. Trump had more encounters in 2019 and 2020, but he sent them back to Mexico.

Please share us the actual facts from 2017 to 2024 so we can compare how many illegal immigrants Trump and Biden released into the US?

One last point, since Biden and Democrats knew, higher numbers would attempt to come into the country, why did Biden immediately get rid of the Trump executive orders including remain in Mexico and begin catch and release?

If Biden knew we did not have the capabilities to property vet asylum seekers, why did he allow them to enter our country?

Obama's former DHS secretary Jay Johnson 100K illegal immigrants a year was dangerous? Biden lets in over 300 thousand a year. It seems every day we are hearing of rapes, robberies, murders and crimes by these asylum seekers. Can we agree if the number was limited as it was under Trump, the odds of the illegal immigrant crimes would sharply decline? Can we agree sanctuary cities failing to turn over asylum seekers who commit crime to ICE for immediate deportation is an issue as well?

[JustWinBaby]

"Top Marginal Tax Rates" is an extremely misleading metric, because it lacks the context of carve outs and loopholes, and other deductions.  And the biggest issue is capital gains have long been a major component, and the very wealthy are able to defer taxes on realized income almost indefinitely until rates are more favorable.

Collections by source have been pretty stable going back to the 50's.  Corporate taxes have come down from then, but more or less stable for the past 40 years.




We have, and continue to have, a spending problem.  Historical receipts as a % of GDP has generally fallen within +/-1% of 18%.  But after spending fell to historic lows in the 90's, it began increasing steadily the next 20+ years to reach historic highs (despite historically & artificially low interest rates for much of that time - debt service at these rate levels will continue to increase spending significantly if this rate environment is the new norm).

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(06-22-2024, 01:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Change the tax laws and quit bitching about it.

Awesome. Any idea of how to do that as a citizen other than not voting Republican?

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-22-2024, 07:31 AM)pally Wrote: Don’t you love how a Trump supporter always manages to ignore 2020.  It’s like he had a 3 year term and Biden had a 5 year term.

Hey Luvnit, what happened in 2020?  You want to talk about riots? Worst murder rates in decades?  Double digit unemployment? An economy that ground to a halt?  Freezer trucks with dead bodies? If your guy gets all the credit for the good, he gets to take responsibility for the bad.

Can you tell us the state of the economy on Jan 21 2017 vs Jan 21 2021?  Did Trump have to fix a broken economy or manage a stable one?

They don't take responsability at all either. 

[Dill]

(06-22-2024, 04:24 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: "Top Marginal Tax Rates" is an extremely misleading metric, because it lacks the context of carve outs and loopholes, and other deductions.  And the biggest issue is capital gains have long been a major component, and the very wealthy are able to defer taxes on realized income almost indefinitely until rates are more favorable.

Collections by source have been pretty stable going back to the 50's.  Corporate taxes have come down from then, but more or less stable for the past 40 years.We have, and continue to have, a spending problem.  Historical receipts as a % of GDP has generally fallen within +/-1% of 18%.  But after spending fell to historic lows in the 90's, it began increasing steadily the next 20+ years to reach historic highs (despite historically & artificially low interest rates for much of that time - debt service at these rate levels will continue to increase spending significantly if this rate environment is the new norm).

Seems like eliminating loopholes and raising corporate taxes would be the better option here. 

Not engaging in unnecessary wars would help the spending part. 

Or ploughing that war money back into infrastructure. 

[Dill]

(06-21-2024, 06:21 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Which era were you thinking of as we sit here with a 21% corporate tax rate?

The rise of neo liberalism, plus ever-shrinking conceptions of the public good.

[HarleyDog]

(06-23-2024, 09:06 PM)Dill Wrote: Seems like eliminating loopholes and raising corporate taxes would be the better option here. 

Totally agree.

Quote:Not engaging in unnecessary wars would help the spending part. 

I agree with this too,  along with stopping trying to pay for college loans, Illegal immigrants, and giving money to foreign adversaries who drag you into war, or at least cause us to fund one. Why give money to Countries who take that money and fund different means to try and kill you? Seriously, it doesn't make much sense.

Quote:Or ploughing that war money back into infrastructure. 

There's also a ton of money unused which was allocated for Covid, federal rescue funds, and several other allotments. Where is that money going? Get the money there since it's unused. Supporting Isriel is crucial. Not only to them, but the message it sends to our allies. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-22-2024, 07:31 AM)pally Wrote: Don’t you love how a Trump supporter always manages to ignore 2020.  It’s like he had a 3 year term and Biden had a 5 year term.

Hey Luvnit, what happened in 2020?  You want to talk about riots? Worst murder rates in decades?  Double digit unemployment? An economy that ground to a halt?  Freezer trucks with dead bodies? If your guy gets all the credit for the good, he gets to take responsibility for the bad.

Can you tell us the state of the economy on Jan 21 2017 vs Jan 21 2021?  Did Trump have to fix a broken economy or manage a stable one?

Wow. a Pandemic that caused the Unemployment and economy to tank and Biden gets to ride the rebuild and still managed to create his own crisis.

Oh well let me know when Biden's 4 years of Stock Market gains actually passes Trumps numbers over his 4 years. Still waiting 20% behind with only 7 more months to go, not looking good.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-22-2024, 05:40 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: LOL

Irony.

It's EXACTLY the point that I'm trying to make, so, thank you very much.

The 90s began with 28% and ended with 40% and a budget surplus.

Can you explain to me how that is odd to you?

100% agreed.

Even if you argue that it was 40% for much of the 90's that's fare less than it was in the past.  So, again, if your point is that a robust economy depends on high taxes for the wealthy I don't think your chart here supports that assertion.

[Dill]

(06-23-2024, 10:58 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I agree with this too,  along with stopping trying to pay for college loans, Illegal immigrants, and giving money to foreign adversaries who drag you into war, or at least cause us to fund one. Why give money to Countries who take that money and fund different means to try and kill you? Seriously, it doesn't make much sense.

Which foreign adversaries get money from us, then drag us into war?   Which take our money and then try to kill us? 

(06-23-2024, 10:58 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: There's also a ton of money unused which was allocated for Covid, federal rescue funds, and several other allotments. Where is that money going? Get the money there since it's unused. Supporting Isriel is crucial. Not only to them, but the message it sends to our allies. 

Is supporting Israel crucial to the US national interest? They are dragging us into a war, right? 

What message does it send out allies, if we do support them?