Forget Politics, are we heading for a recession

[Mickeypoo]

(09-08-2023, 01:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok well a lot of people would say you want more moderate candidates but you are picking the less moderate of your two options.  I get it, politics is perception over all else.  It's easy to just pick one guy and say "Well, I don't like this guy but I'm picking him because the other guy is totally insane."  I guess that's how we got where we are on a lot of things.

I feel like you're the second person I've talked to in the past 24 hours who tells me that we both want more moderate candidates, but then hits me with a deluge of marketing-style misdirection about one candidate in an effort to convince me that the guy who is pushing one political party somewhere you are telling me you don't want it to go is the right choice.

I could be wrong, I just don't think people who want moderate candidates buy into the banning stoves and ceiling fans propoganda.  Or maybe Trump is the sane one and I've lost my mind, it's possible.

Bro, I live in NY.  NG banned in new construction starting in 2025 I believe.  They would ban guns outright if they could get away with it.  They would ban ICE cars outright if they could get away with it.  I have to pay a fee and get a nics check every single time I buy ammo no matter what caliber.  100% unconstitutional.  NYS Dems are legit, 100%, honest to God, bat shit crazy dictators.

When SCOTUS smacked them in the mouth for their unconstitutional hand gun laws they turned right around in like 3 weeks and passed a much more unconstitutional set of gun laws, knowingly and purposefully going completely against their sworn oath of office and the constitution.  It's not propaganda.  These far left dems don't care one wit about the constitution.  They only care about pushing their insane, Regressive ideological agenda and you will comply or else.

[*Nately120*]

(09-08-2023, 03:02 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Bro, I live in NY.  NG banned in new construction starting in 2025 I believe.  They would ban guns outright if they could get away with it.  They would ban ICE cars outright if they could get away with it.  I have to pay a fee and get a nics check every single time I buy ammo no matter what caliber.  100% unconstitutional.  NYS Dems are legit, 100%, honest to God, bat shit crazy dictators.

When SCOTUS smacked them in the mouth for their unconstitutional hand gun laws they turned right around in like 3 weeks and passed a much more unconstitutional set of gun laws, knowingly and purposefully going completely against their sworn oath of office and the constitution.  It's not propaganda.  These far left dems don't care one wit about the constitution.  They only care about pushing their insane, Regressive ideological agenda and you will comply or else.

I've lived in NY, Chicago, and dirt road PA but I've never really thought about this stuff because I'm not a gun guy.  Either way, if NY dems are too much for you there is always Idaho. There is never going to be a country wide ban on guns, though I'd argue we'd get closer to it by electing someone who doesn't want to leave office rather than someone like Biden. Our best chance of losing guns is to lose our democracy first.

Anyways, for years after I lived in NY and worked in NYC I was all up my own arse in love with Giuliani....oy, the times they change.

[*pally*]

(09-08-2023, 12:13 AM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Illegal* Mexicans. Most that have fallen (Byzantine, Roman, Ottoman, Soviet Union, to an extent Weimar Republic) experienced a huge influx of illegal immigrants. People like to give GOP a hard time for wanting stronger borders (we’ve gotta be the only country dumb enough to actually fight for that kind of thing), but mayor of NYC literally just said “illegal immigration will be the death of this city” a mere 2 years after saying “all are welcome.” Basically, “as long as it’s not in my backyard”

needing papers for immigration is a 20th-century thing.  The US didn't really regulate immigration until 1824,  Entry visas became popular in the 1930s as countries sought to prevent Jewish immigration out of Germany.  Post WWII, they were used to manage refugees.

Empires fall for a number of reason but mostly due to falling fortunes and overreaching power in the hands of too few

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-08-2023, 01:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: As of now I have never seen anyone argueing that illegal immigrants played a role in the fall of the Weimar republic.
So, it wasn't just the Germans who are to blame for Hitler's rise after all. It's those non-Germans flooding the country.

Rome, sure, it got overrun by the Goths. I guess one can paint getting conquered as a huge influx of illegal immigrants.

No one is going to say that because it’s not PC to say that. It’s a common theme that’s pretty hard to ignore. I don’t understand people who don’t see a problem with so many poorly educated, low-skilled workers flooding the border, decreasing wages and in many cases, not assimilating, getting benefits, and costing tax payers money every year. Arizona shouldn’t have to deal with hundreds of thousands of illegal border crossings per year. I’m sure that hospital in Yuma really loved giving $26M in medical bills to illegal immigrants. 

New York City’s woke mayor who was all about the illegal immigrants wouldn’t do a 180 and say “this will be the death of the city” if it were a good thing. Takes a pretty convincing situation to hear those words out of his idiotic mouth. Martha’s Vineyard couldn’t even handle 50 before they forced them out. 

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-08-2023, 03:54 PM)pally Wrote: needing papers for immigration is a 20th-century thing.  The US didn't really regulate immigration until 1824,  Entry visas became popular in the 1930s as countries sought to prevent Jewish immigration out of Germany.  Post WWII, they were used to manage refugees.

Empires fall for a number of reason but mostly due to falling fortunes and overreaching power in the hands of too few

Not about the papers. It’s about cultures coexisting. Conflicting values, fighting for resources, economic hardships and scapegoating, all these things put us in danger of the “tribes” turning on each other. I mean, we’re already in a culture war. Not to mention, the people crossing the border illegally typically aren’t exactly doctors or software engineers. Low-skilled workers driving down wages, saving the rich business owners lots of $$

Like I said, we are the only country I know of where strong borders is actually a controversial issue. Scandinavia is supposedly the most progressive place on earth, they kick asylum seekers out of the country after 2 years. 

[hollodero]

(09-08-2023, 05:48 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: No one is going to say that because it’s not PC to say that. It’s a common theme that’s pretty hard to ignore. I don’t understand people who don’t see a problem with so many poorly educated, low-skilled workers flooding the border, decreasing wages and in many cases, not assimilating, getting benefits, and costing tax payers money every year. Arizona shouldn’t have to deal with hundreds of thousands of illegal border crossings per year. I’m sure that hospital in Yuma really loved giving $26M in medical bills to illegal immigrants. 

New York City’s woke mayor who was all about the illegal immigrants wouldn’t do a 180 and say “this will be the death of the city” if it were a good thing. Takes a pretty convincing situation to hear those words out of his idiotic mouth. Martha’s Vineyard couldn’t even handle 50 before they forced them out. 

OK, that sounds a little xenophobic and narrow-minded, but never mind. Just to be clear on something. You think that to an extent, a huge influx of immigrants brought down the Weimar republic. I just want to be certain about that, because that's a doozy.

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-08-2023, 09:41 PM)hollodero Wrote: OK, that sounds a little xenophobic and narrow-minded, but never mind. Just to be clear on something. You think that to an extent, a huge influx of immigrants brought down the Weimar republic. I just want to be certain about that, because that's a doozy.

Ah yes, the old “xenophobic” accusation and the subsequent refusal to acknowledge the difference between legal and illegal immigrants. Guess the NYC mayor is xenophobic now. Texas, Arizona, Florida? All xenophobes. Tell me you don’t live in a border state without telling me. The workers from Mexico who legally got green cards or citizenship who worked on my house, and lose work every time someone picks up a guy outside of Home Depot? Xenophobes. Also, pretty much every country in the west is xenophobic for prioritizing stronger borders. You can be PC all you want, but uneducated and unskilled workers coming here in droves isn’t sustainable in the long term. You never responded about the Yuma hospital that spent $25M on illegal immigrants. I guess we can always print more money…

[hollodero]

(09-08-2023, 10:47 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Ah yes, the old “xenophobic” accusation and the subsequent refusal to acknowledge the difference between legal and illegal immigrants. Guess the NYC mayor is xenophobic now. Texas, Arizona, Florida? All xenophobes. Tell me you don’t live in a border state without telling me. The workers from Mexico who legally got green cards or citizenship who worked on my house, and lose work every time someone picks up a guy outside of Home Depot? Xenophobes. Also, pretty much every country in the west is xenophobic for prioritizing stronger borders. You can be PC all you want, but uneducated and unskilled workers coming here in droves isn’t sustainable in the long term. You never responded about the Yuma hospital that spent $25M on illegal immigrants. I guess we can always print more money…

I don't call any of these things and people xenophobic. I don't call people who want to restrict illegal immigration xenophobic. I don't call people who advocate walls and fences along the border xenophobic.

I do say that people sound a little xenophobic when they sound a little xenophobic, like you do. It's mainly your anger, and your woefully one-sided view on immigration. And also because you partly blame illegal immigrants for the demise of the Weimar republic, that was my first clue really.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-08-2023, 05:48 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: No one is going to say that because it’s not PC to say that. It’s a common theme that’s pretty hard to ignore. I don’t understand people who don’t see a problem with so many poorly educated, low-skilled workers flooding the border, decreasing wages and in many cases, not assimilating, getting benefits, and costing tax payers money every year. Arizona shouldn’t have to deal with hundreds of thousands of illegal border crossings per year. I’m sure that hospital in Yuma really loved giving $26M in medical bills to illegal immigrants. 

New York City’s woke mayor who was all about the illegal immigrants wouldn’t do a 180 and say “this will be the death of the city” if it were a good thing. Takes a pretty convincing situation to hear those words out of his idiotic mouth. Martha’s Vineyard couldn’t even handle 50 before they forced them out. 

And they blame everything but the root cause of the problem. I think Cuomo was saying the problem is no work visas for the illegals or something like that.

They broke into the country illegally. Ship them all out and actually secure the border. This isn’t rocket science. Can’t do that. Feelz and shit.

[hollodero]

(09-09-2023, 12:16 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: And they blame everything but the root cause of the problem.   I think Cuomo was saying the problem is no work visas for the illegals or something like that.

They broke into the country illegally.   Ship them all out and actually secure the border.  This isn’t rocket science.  Can’t do that.  Feelz and shit.

I admit that is a sensitive topic, and there's a good argument to be made that at times illegal immigrants might be treated with too much leniency. Then again, the argument that they cost the state shitloads of money is questionable at best, as is them stealing away jobs (have you seen the US unempoyment rates? They are low), and depending on the case having a heart is not despicable. Eg when you have someone who is here for decades, with children that only know the US, that work, get no social benefits, aren't criminal... you can give those people a path to citizenship, that's not an outlandish thing to do. Others that came here recently for example, or defrauf the US, do dirty things, ok sure, deport them, maybe even more staunchly perhaps (I don't know about that for sure one way or another). But to round everyone up and deport everyone without any chance of making their case to stay, that might just be unnnecessary cruel.

[Luvnit2]

(09-09-2023, 11:51 AM)hollodero Wrote: I admit that is a sensitive topic, and there's a good argument to be made that at times illegal immigrants might be treated with too much leniency. Then again, the argument that they cost the state shitloads of money is questionable at best, as is them stealing away jobs (have you seen the US unempoyment rates? They are low), and depending on the case having a heart is not despicable. Eg when you have someone who is here for decades, with children that only know the US, that work, get no social benefits, aren't criminal... you can give those people a path to citizenship, that's not an outlandish thing to do. Others that came here recently for example, or defrauf the US, do dirty things, ok sure, deport them, maybe even more staunchly perhaps (I don't know about that for sure one way or another). But to round everyone up and deport everyone without any chance of making their case to stay, that might just be unnnecessary cruel.

You do realize in past 2.5 years under Biden 6 to 8 million ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS entered the U.S. The vast majority are not working (just ask NYC), so shouldn't they be added to the unemployed Americans in the US?

If so, unemployment spikes to over 15%.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-09-2023, 11:51 AM)hollodero Wrote: I admit that is a sensitive topic, and there's a good argument to be made that at times illegal immigrants might be treated with too much leniency. Then again, the argument that they cost the state shitloads of money is questionable at best, as is them stealing away jobs (have you seen the US unempoyment rates? They are low), and depending on the case having a heart is not despicable. Eg when you have someone who is here for decades, with children that only know the US, that work, get no social benefits, aren't criminal... you can give those people a path to citizenship, that's not an outlandish thing to do. Others that came here recently for example, or defrauf the US, do dirty things, ok sure, deport them, maybe even more staunchly perhaps (I don't know about that for sure one way or another). But to round everyone up and deport everyone without any chance of making their case to stay, that might just be unnnecessary cruel.

Nothing sensative about it.  Commit a crime and be held accountable.  Want to fix the immigration problem?  It's VERY easy.  Start rounding up all illegals and deport them immediately.  Secure the border.  Put policies in place that severely deter illegals from illegally entering the country such as no housing, no job, no healthcare, no nothing.  Super easy.  Pols are just too big of p!@#$ to do it.  That and pols can use it for political leverage.

Been here for decades?  So if someone murders someone we let them go becuase it's been 2 decades?  How about robbing a bank.  All good after a couple decades?   Cruel to arrest them at that point?  I'm tired of the feelz infecting everything.  Cruel to the children?  Blame the parents who willingly broke into a foreign coutry.

[JustWinBaby]

(09-09-2023, 04:44 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Pols are just too big of p!@#$ to do it.  That and pols can use it for political leverage.

To be fair, the Chamber of Commerce has repeatedly lobbied Republicans for leniency.  A lot of small businesses do rely on them for season, if not also cheap, labor.  And it's true that Americans don't want to do some of those jobs, even if they're unemployed (but that's a separate issue).

So I think it boils down to there is absolutely a high tolerance for a certain amount of illegal immigration.  And that's partly why I don't believe there is real interest on either side to secure the border.  Assuming that's even feasible, which the amount of drugs coming into this country suggests it is not (why I laugh at the idea making guns illegal).

Cheap labor, and future offspring that vote 70% Democrat.  Win-win for both parties.

[basballguy]

(09-09-2023, 03:39 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You do realize in past 2.5 years under Biden 6 to 8 million ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS entered the U.S. The vast majority are not working (just ask NYC), so shouldn't they be added to the unemployed Americans in the US?

If so, unemployment spikes to over 15%.

I'm not sure how true this is....BLS claims they include illegal immigrants in their calculations

https://cis.org/Report/Employment-Situation-Immigrants-and-USBorn-Fourth-Quarter-2022#:~:text=While%20it%20may%20surprise%20some,those%20published%20by%20the%20BLS.

I honestly don't know how they can include a population that they don't count, but hey they said it and the government never lies right?  

[samhain]

(09-08-2023, 12:16 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: It's truly amazing to watch the epic levels of stupid.

Uh-oh, message board tough guy insult!  I bet you're a real badass to anonymously sling an insult like that.

[samhain]

(09-09-2023, 04:44 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Nothing sensative about it.  Commit a crime and be held accountable.  Want to fix the immigration problem?  It's VERY easy.  Start rounding up all illegals and deport them immediately.  Secure the border.  Put policies in place that severely deter illegals from illegally entering the country such as no housing, no job, no healthcare, no nothing.  Super easy.  Pols are just too big of p!@#$ to do it.  That and pols can use it for political leverage.

Been here for decades?  So if someone murders someone we let them go becuase it's been 2 decades?  How about robbing a bank.  All good after a couple decades?   Cruel to arrest them at that point?  I'm tired of the feelz infecting everything.  Cruel to the children?  Blame the parents who willingly broke into a foreign coutry.

You're pretty tough, obviously.  You should get a gun and round em up yourself, Cowboy.  Get off the sidelines and get in the game.

Also, I'm not one to question the intelligence of people I' don't really know, but suggesting that containing the flow of human traffic from the southern border is "simple" implies a lack of basic comprehension of sheer land area and geographic range.

Maybe if you act tough and call somebody a ***** it will all fall into place. Worth a try.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-09-2023, 07:38 PM)samhain Wrote: Uh-oh, message board tough guy insult!  I bet you're a real badass to anonymously sling an insult like that.

That’s your takeaway from me saying what Mayor Adams is slinging is next level stupid?

I’d be more than happy to say it to his face.

If you thought that was directed at someone/s on here you’d be wrong.

[hollodero]

(09-09-2023, 04:44 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Been here for decades?  So if someone murders someone we let them go becuase it's been 2 decades?  How about robbing a bank.  All good after a couple decades? 

I try to be fair and considerate to opposing viewpoints, I really try my best. But this takes it too far. In no conceivable way have I argued that murderers and other criminals should be allowed to stay just because they've been there long enough. How dare you insinuate that. Normally I would try to give an accomodating answer, but that take just pisses me off.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-09-2023, 07:55 PM)samhain Wrote: You're pretty tough, obviously.  You should get a gun and round em up yourself, Cowboy.  Get off the sidelines and get in the game.

Also, I'm not one to question the intelligence of people I' don't really know, but suggesting that containing the flow of human traffic from the southern border is "simple" implies a lack of basic comprehension of sheer land area and geographic range.

Maybe if you act tough and call somebody a ***** it will all fall into place. Worth a try.

It’s not just about securing the border and I understand the logistics.

If you start mass deportations of illegals combined with enforced, effective policies such as no work, no housing, no healthcare, no nothing then there is very little incentive to come here illegally. That in turn makes the border much more manageable as there won’t be nearly as many trying to illegally enter. This isn’t rocket science. It’s a core function of our federal government to secure our border.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-09-2023, 11:51 PM)hollodero Wrote: I try to be fair and considerate to opposing viewpoints, I really try my best. But this takes it too far. In no conceivable way have I argued that murderers and other criminals should be allowed to stay just because they've been there long enough. How dare you insinuate that. Normally I would try to give an accomodating answer, but that take just pisses me off.

That’s not what I was saying…………….at all.

And I’ll add this. You think states spending crap tons on illegals is questionable? Did you not see Mayor Adams literally begging for crap tons of fed money and literally saying illegals are going to destroy nyc?

Illegals cost American citizen taxpayers billions per year.