Forget Politics, are we heading for a recession

[hollodero]

(09-10-2023, 12:04 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: That’s not what I was saying…………….at all.

Sure you were. You asked me directly about murderers and whether they should be allowed to stay after some decades too. Don't even try to weasel out of that.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-10-2023, 12:07 AM)hollodero Wrote: Sure you were. You asked me directly about murderers and whether they should be allowed to stay after some decades too. Don't even try to weasel out of that.

Nope. Not what I meant at all. Wasn’t talking about illegals who murdered or robbed banks. No weaseling necessary cause you are wrong. It’s late, I’m exhausted and I’m going to bed. I’ll explain tomorrow.

[samhain]

(09-10-2023, 12:00 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: It’s not just about securing the border and I understand the logistics.

If you start mass deportations of illegals combined with enforced, effective policies such as no work, no housing, no healthcare, no nothing then there is very little incentive to come here illegally.  That in turn makes the border much more manageable as there won’t be nearly as many trying to illegally enter.   This isn’t rocket science.  It’s a core function of our federal government to secure our border.

No it doesn't.  The places they live have nothing to offer in terms of opportunity.  In some cases they are riddled with violence.  Getting deported just re-starts the cycle.  It may take time, but circumstances will always encourage them to try and make it back.  It's raw capitalism at a basic level.  

On top of that, several crucial industries will always have an interest in cheap "unskilled" labor.  They aren't supposed to be employed here as is.  Why would anything change that?  Construction, farming, even manufacturing eat up this kind of resource.  Their illegal status only gives employers leverage that they will never have over American citizens.  Cheap labor, no legal rights, more profits.  It's not going to stop.  Ever.

[hollodero]

(09-10-2023, 12:15 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Nope.   Not what I meant at all.  Wasn’t talking about illegals who murdered or robbed banks.  No weaseling necessary cause you are wrong.   It’s late, I’m exhausted and I’m going to bed.   I’ll explain tomorrow.

OK, I can see it now, and I will take parts of my anger back with an apology. You did not ask me whether murderers should be allowed to stay.
Half of my anger still remains since you compared crossing the border illegally with murder or bank robbery. To which my answer would be, it is far from a similar thing and yeah one of these crimes can be forgiven and it is not akin to forgiving murder. This is still a tainted, unfair analogy.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-10-2023, 08:20 AM)hollodero Wrote: OK, I can see it now, and I will take parts of my anger back with an apology. You did not ask me whether murderers should be allowed to stay.
Half of my anger still remains since you compared crossing the border illegally with murder or bank robbery. To which my answer would be, it is far from a similar thing and yeah one of these crimes can be forgiven and it is not akin to forgiving murder. This is still a tainted, unfair analogy.

Yes, that is what I meant.  I was responding to the comments about people being here illegally for decades and also what if they were children.  I was saying that we don't forgive poeple who rob a bank or murder just because a certain amount of time has passed.

Well, you can take all your anger back because I wasn't comparing illegal aliens crossing the border to murderers and/or bank robbers.  Those were just the first things that came to my when talking about how we don't ignore crimes just because of the passage of time.  I was not saying illegal aliens are equivelent to murderers and bank robbers.

You know, when Trump tried to offer up amnesty in return for actual real effective border policy changes and enforcement  Iwas actually all for it.  Unfortunately, and I can't remmeber which side or could have been both sides, rejected that proposal.

I am also 100% for legal, checked immigration.  I welcoime any foreigner who wants to enter the USA and become a citizen the correct way and be a productive member of society.

I actually have no problem with pretty much anyone frfom anywhere.  Black, white, hispanic, asian, etc, etc, etc.   What I do have aproblem with is people thinking they just have a right to flood into the usa illegally.  That's where my feelz get turned off.  This may sound harsh, but their circumstances in their home country is not my problem and does not give them the right to illegally enter the USA.

I will also say something about Samhain calling me an internet tough guy and keytboard warrior, etc or whatever he said.  I did not call anyone here any names.  I questioned the intelligence of the nyc mayor Eric Adams.  He supports a sanctuary city and says all are welcome.  He obviously doesn't have the inteligence to think big picture.  Now his sanctuary city of nyc is becoming overrun with illegals and he is begging for federal aid and literally saying that illegals are "going to destroy nyc".  He refuses to acknowledge or can't comprehend what the actual root causes are.  So ya, he obviously lacks self awareness and intelligence.  That's not being a tough guy, that's just pointing out facts.  I also bring this up because of your comment about the states not really having to spend crap loads on illegal immigration.  Here is a quote from Adams himself:  “If we don’t get the support we need, New Yorkers could be left with a $12 billion bill,” Mr. Adams said in a speech from City Hall. “While New York City will continue to lead, it’s time the state and federal government step up.”   And the link to the very left leaning ny times article the quote came from.  https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/nyregion/adams-nyc-migrants-cost.html

Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of the usa billions upon billions every year.  It's bs and a core function of our fed gov't is to secure opur borders and protect our country.  At this point i truly believe that the left is doing this on purpose with hopes of a massive voter influx as their radical policies can't make it through real legislation.  One of the reasons, imo, they are so upset about having a SCOTUS that follows the constitution.  Look at the NM gov who literally just ignored her oath and constitution and temp banned guns.  We have elected officials now flagrantly and purposefully violating their oath and the constitution to push their insane Regressive ideology/agenda. 

None of the rich elite want illegals either.  It's all virtuo signaling.  Marthas Vinyard couldn't house and get jobs for 50 illegals?  They declared a "humanitarian crisis" for 50 people.  My God.  *facepalm*  lmao!!  I mean, cmon man.  These are super rich people with tons of room to shelter 50 poeple.  Nope.  They scream crisis over 50 people and get rid of them quick.  Let me know the next rich, famous, elite people that advocate for illegals to be sent to their neighborhood.  It won't and doesn't happen.  They allow it and advocate for it, but don't want anything to do with it unless those illegals are their workers or servants.  It's for the rest of us peasants to deal with.


Anyway, have a good day and Who-Dey!!!!!!!

[Mickeypoo]

(09-10-2023, 12:17 AM)samhain Wrote: No it doesn't.  The places they live have nothing to offer in terms of opportunity.  In some cases they are riddled with violence.  Getting deported just re-starts the cycle.  It may take time, but circumstances will always encourage them to try and make it back.  It's raw capitalism at a basic level.  

On top of that, several crucial industries will always have an interest in cheap "unskilled" labor.  They aren't supposed to be employed here as is.  Why would anything change that?  Construction, farming, even manufacturing eat up this kind of resource.  Their illegal status only gives employers leverage that they will never have over American citizens.  Cheap labor, no legal rights, more profits.  It's not going to stop.  Ever.

The places they live are not my concern and doesn't give them a free pass to illegaly break into another foreign country.

Of course there is no way to stop illegal immigration 100%, but with strict, enforced, good policies like I mentioned it will curb illegal immigration tremendously. 

[hollodero]

(09-10-2023, 10:06 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Yes, that is what I meant.  I was responding to the comments about people being here illegally for decades and also what if they were children.  I was saying that we don't forgive poeple who rob a bank or murder just because a certain amount of time has passed.

Still, that is putting an illegal border crossing on the same level as heineous crimes. Of course society does not forgive murder. But it still should forgive comparatively minor offenses, decades after the deed was done.
Hence, I find this analogy to be off. Which does not excuse my behaviour, I was not at my best for sure. I'm sorry for that.

Also, I do not condone illegal border crossings. And it's true, it seems the US makes it quite easy to do so. Folks can not only enter easily (not due to a lack of a border wall, but because Visa overstays are an uncomplicated way to stay illegally), they later also find a home and work, without permits, so there's other guilty parties involved as well. Including a government that seems quite lenient to check up on this. It's almost as if illegals and their cheap labor is actually welcomed.
A party that is not guilty are children from illegal immigrants. If deported, they get punished for their parents' deed, and I find that to be unfair. Even more so since they usually do not hurt anyone (if they're criminal, I'm all for deportation) and will contribute to society, now or in the future.

(09-10-2023, 10:06 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Anyway, have a good day and Who-Dey!!!!!!!

Oh yeah, who dey!

Good day to you too. Thanks for reacting this way.

[samhain]

(09-10-2023, 10:06 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Yes, that is what I meant.  I was responding to the comments about people being here illegally for decades and also what if they were children.  I was saying that we don't forgive poeple who rob a bank or murder just because a certain amount of time has passed.


Well, you can take all your anger back because I wasn't comparing illegal aliens crossing the border to murderers and/or bank robbers.  Those were just the first things that came to my when talking about how we don't ignore crimes just because of the passage of time.  I was not saying illegal aliens are equivelent to murderers and bank robbers.

You know, when Trump tried to offer up amnesty in return for actual real effective border policy changes and enforcement  Iwas actually all for it.  Unfortunately, and I can't remmeber which side or could have been both sides, rejected that proposal.

I am also 100% for legal, checked immigration.  I welcoime any foreigner who wants to enter the USA and become a citizen the correct way and be a productive member of society.

I actually have no problem with pretty much anyone frfom anywhere.  Black, white, hispanic, asian, etc, etc, etc.   What I do have aproblem with is people thinking they just have a right to flood into the usa illegally.  That's where my feelz get turned off.  This may sound harsh, but their circumstances in their home country is not my problem and does not give them the right to illegally enter the USA.

I will also say something about Samhain calling me an internet tough guy and keytboard warrior, etc or whatever he said.  I did not call anyone here any names.  I questioned the intelligence of the nyc mayor Eric Adams.  He supports a sanctuary city and says all are welcome.  He obviously doesn't have the inteligence to think big picture.  Now his sanctuary city of nyc is becoming overrun with illegals and he is begging for federal aid and literally saying that illegals are "going to destroy nyc".  He refuses to acknowledge or can't comprehend what the actual root causes are.  So ya, he obviously lacks self awareness and intelligence.  That's not being a tough guy, that's just pointing out facts.  I also bring this up because of your comment about the states not really having to spend crap loads on illegal immigration.  Here is a quote from Adams himself:  “If we don’t get the support we need, New Yorkers could be left with a $12 billion bill,” Mr. Adams said in a speech from City Hall. “While New York City will continue to lead, it’s time the state and federal government step up.”   And the link to the very left leaning ny times article the quote came from.  https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/nyregion/adams-nyc-migrants-cost.html

Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of the usa billions upon billions every year.  It's bs and a core function of our fed gov't is to secure opur borders and protect our country.  At this point i truly believe that the left is doing this on purpose with hopes of a massive voter influx as their radical policies can't make it through real legislation.  One of the reasons, imo, they are so upset about having a SCOTUS that follows the constitution.  Look at the NM gov who literally just ignored her oath and constitution and temp banned guns.  We have elected officials now flagrantly and purposefully violating their oath and the constitution to push their insane Regressive ideology/agenda. 

None of the rich elite want illegals either.  It's all virtuo signaling.  Marthas Vinyard couldn't house and get jobs for 50 illegals?  They declared a "humanitarian crisis" for 50 people.  My God.  *facepalm*  lmao!!  I mean, cmon man.  These are super rich people with tons of room to shelter 50 poeple.  Nope.  They scream crisis over 50 people and get rid of them quick.  Let me know the next rich, famous, elite people that advocate for illegals to be sent to their neighborhood.  It won't and doesn't happen.  They allow it and advocate for it, but don't want anything to do with it unless those illegals are their workers or servants.  It's for the rest of us peasants to deal with.


Anyway, have a good day and Who-Dey!!!!!!!

This is more bullshit.  The "rich elite" absolutely want illegals.  Just not the media coastal rich elite that the right likes to trot out as the evil overlords.  The actual rich elite, ie people who own means of production both national and international, can not get enough of cheap labor.  They love seeing anything drive down wages and insure a constant source of manpower free of legal accountability.  

The reality is, although they may not know it, the street level white nationalist MAGA drones love illegals, too.  They just don't realize it.  Let all of these jobs occupied by alleged civilization-destroying Latin Americans go unoccupied.  Go ahead and mandate that these jobs be filled by Americans at a fair wage/salary with benefits.  Go ahead and make ag companies send American labor into fields to harvest crops.  Let them shell out to attract Americans to build decks and put roofs on houses in 92 degree summer heat for days on end.  Let little Johnny get off of his PS5 for an afternoon to trim the tree with branches hanging over your roof for the price that comes to pay that fair wage to the homegrown worker.  

The MAGA faithful will be bitching up a storm about prices going up faster than you can say "It was Soros all along".  Hell they already clutch pearls when anyone suggests a minimum wage increase, citing the impact it will have on the costs of goods and services.  Take that theory and multiply it by a hundred or so.  

As Trump said in 2016 during his first campaign, "You make too much money.".  The corporate elite in this country have alway believed this.  They may support MAGA stupidity to get the anti-immigrant crowd riled up at rallies and get the tax cuts flowing , but it's all a means of duping the mob.  There's no way they want to stop illegal immigration, and there's not really anything they can do to effectively curb it anyway.  

Blaming the poorest of the poor who have no political power whatsoever makes a political position look weak.  I can't believe people still flock to anti-immigrant rhetoric like trained dogs every time some far-right clown opens his mouth.  

[Mickeypoo]

(09-10-2023, 10:22 AM)hollodero Wrote: Still, that is putting an illegal border crossing on the same level as heineous crimes. Of course society does not forgive murder. But it still should forgive comparatively minor offenses, decades after the deed was done.
Hence, I find this analogy to be off. Which does not excuse my behaviour, I was not at my best for sure. I'm sorry for that.

Also, I do not condone illegal border crossings. And it's true, it seems the US makes it quite easy to do so. Folks can not only enter easily (not due to a lack of a border wall, but because Visa overstays are an uncomplicated way to stay illegally), they later also find a home and work, without permits, so there's other guilty parties involved as well. Including a government that seems quite lenient to check up on this. It's almost as if illegals and their cheap labor is actually welcomed.
A party that is not guilty are children from illegal immigrants. If deported, they get punished for their parents' deed, and I find that to be unfair. Even more so since they usually do not hurt anyone (if they're criminal, I'm all for deportation) and will contribute to society, now or in the future.



Oh yeah, who dey!

Good day to you too. Thanks for reacting this way.

Well, those were just the first things I thought of.  I was in no way trying to make a comparison of murder or bank robbing to illegals directly.  You can pick any crime that we wouldn't igonore.  Some have statute of limitations, some don't.  I was only using it to make the point that when someone commits a crime we don't just ignore it becuase x amount of time has passed unless the statute of limitations has run out; which I personally don't believe should apply to illegal immigration.  Anyway, just wanted to make that clear.

I will agree that children being deported because of therir parents misdeeds is indeed not fair.  This might not be popular, but I have learned in my almost 50 years on this rock that life is anything but fair.

Again, Who-Dey!!!!!!   Almost kickoff!!  Let's gooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mickeypoo]

(09-10-2023, 10:27 AM)samhain Wrote: This is more bullshit.  The "rich elite" absolutely want illegals.  Just not the media coastal rich elite that the right likes to trot out as the evil overlords.  The actual rich elite, ie people who own means of production both national and international, can not get enough of cheap labor.  They love seeing anything drive down wages and insure a constant source of manpower free of legal accountability.  

The reality is, although they may not know it, the street level white nationalist MAGA drones love illegals, too.  They just don't realize it.  Let all of these jobs occupied by alleged civilization-destroying Latin Americans go unoccupied.  Go ahead and mandate that these jobs be filled by Americans at a fair wage/salary with benefits.  Go ahead and make ag companies send American labor into fields to harvest crops.  Let them shell out to attract Americans to build decks and put roofs on houses in 92 degree summer heat for days on end.  Let little Johnny get off of his PS5 for an afternoon to trim the tree with branches hanging over your roof for the price that comes to pay that fair wage to the homegrown worker.  

The MAGA faithful will be bitching up a storm about prices going up faster than you can say "It was Soros all along".  Hell they already clutch pearls when anyone suggests a minimum wage increase, citing the impact it will have on the costs of goods and services.  Take that theory and multiply it by a hundred or so.  

As Trump said in 2016 during his first campaign, "You make too much money.".  The corporate elite in this country have alway believed this.  They may support MAGA stupidity to get the anti-immigrant crowd riled up at rallies and get the tax cuts flowing , but it's all a means of duping the mob.  There's no way they want to stop illegal immigration, and there's not really anything they can do to effectively curb it anyway.  

Blaming the poorest of the poor who have no political power whatsoever makes a political position look weak.  I can't believe people still flock to anti-immigrant rhetoric like trained dogs every time some far-right clown opens his mouth.  

The rich elite want illegals for their slave labor, they absolutely do not want them living anywhere near them; which is my point.  Please show me a community with wealthy people that have or would vote for housing to be put into their community for the homeless, illegals, mentally ill, etc.  That would get voted down unanimously.  That's for us peasants to deal with.  

Look at nyc.  Sanctuary city.  We love and welcome everyone.  Bunch of fake, virtue signaling frauds.  Now illegals are going to literally destroy nyc according to mayor.  What a joke these people are.  It was all great until they had to back up their talk and poliices.

You type all this maga this white national that.  People have a spectrum of viewpoiints.  I support some Left views and I suppoort some right views.  I am a registered Independent.  I am willing to compromise on any issue as there are always 2 sides and nobody can get everything they want.  I am a fierce supporter of our military, police, first reposnders.  I love my country and want it to be great always.  I am also white.  I'd be interested to see how you stereotype me.

You called me a tough guy, keyboard warrior, etc, but I see you doing the same thing but worse.  You are just stereotyping poeple and labeling them.  I called out one persons intelligence (mayor adams) based on their specific actions and statements and called our pols on both sides a girl part for the very specific reason of not securing our border and adopting sound immigration policies over the decades.

You are just making excuses for why illegal immigration should be allowed.  Heck, i'm already down 700-800 a month since Biden came into office, might as well rip off the band-aid and get rid of the cheap illegal alien labor also.

As far as minimum wage, it is absolutely true if you keep raising it companies will keep raising prices.  McDonalads is not supposed to be a job you buy a house with and raise a family.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-10-2023, 10:22 AM)hollodero Wrote: Still, that is putting an illegal border crossing on the same level as heineous crimes. Of course society does not forgive murder. But it still should forgive comparatively minor offenses, decades after the deed was done.
Hence, I find this analogy to be off. Which does not excuse my behaviour, I was not at my best for sure. I'm sorry for that.

Also, I do not condone illegal border crossings. And it's true, it seems the US makes it quite easy to do so. Folks can not only enter easily (not due to a lack of a border wall, but because Visa overstays are an uncomplicated way to stay illegally), they later also find a home and work, without permits, so there's other guilty parties involved as well. Including a government that seems quite lenient to check up on this. It's almost as if illegals and their cheap labor is actually welcomed.
A party that is not guilty are children from illegal immigrants. If deported, they get punished for their parents' deed, and I find that to be unfair. Even more so since they usually do not hurt anyone (if they're criminal, I'm all for deportation) and will contribute to society, now or in the future.



Oh yeah, who dey!

Good day to you too. Thanks for reacting this way.

My problem with it as it's setup now. Why come here illegally when you have a good chance to come in on a refugee/asylum visa?
I'm thinking that the majority of those coming illegally now likely won't be approved (for whatever reason), and we don't need that type here.
Also crime does go up, Illegals prey on other Illegals, why would an illegal report something to the police and draw attention to themselves and get deported? That's just common sense. 

As far as  VISA overstays? If yours expires, they will find you. Seen many get picked up and deported.  They know where you live and work. They will eventually catch you and you are in bigger trouble (as in banned for x years) if they have to catch you vs leaving on your own voluntarily. 

As far as the kids go, there's no easy way to handle that. It's a catch 22, no real way to win. The Adults are the ones breaking the laws, they know the risks yet take them anyways and in some cases they are trying to use the kids in order to stay. It's a nasty business but laws are laws and as soon as you try to make exceptions, people will try to exploit it.

[hollodero]

(09-11-2023, 10:58 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: My problem with it as it's setup now. Why come here illegally when you have a good chance to come in on a refugee/asylum visa?
I'm thinking that the majority of those coming illegally now likely won't be approved (for whatever reason), and we don't need that type here.

I'd guess because most illegal immigrants don't qualify for asylum. They don't flee war or persecution, just a dangerous life without perspective.
Not sure why you call them "that type" that you do not need here. They usually work hard in any awful job for little pay, they don't steal jobs away (not with this unemployment rate anyway), and there seems to be no indication that I am aware of that they are more prone to crimes than Americans. They just don't qualify as refugees.

(09-11-2023, 10:58 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: As far as  VISA overstays? If yours expires, they will find you. Seen many get picked up and deported.  They know where you live and work. They will eventually catch you and you are in bigger trouble (as in banned for x years) if they have to catch you vs leaving on your own voluntarily. 

Well, apparently not, since visa overstays, from what I've seen, exceed illegal border crossings and contribute more to the illegal population. It seems many visa overstays do not get caught or followed up.
Which, yeah, as a non-American is weird enough, no denying that. We would actually find them, and there's little chance they find work and a roof as illegals. It's what I mean that apparently illegals in the US are widely tolerated, from employers, landlords, states and the government possibly because the economy just wants or needs the cheap labor.

(09-11-2023, 10:58 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: As far as the kids go, there's no easy way to handle that. It's a catch 22, no real way to win.

Sure there is. Let the kids stay. At least those that know little else but the US throughout their life because they've grown up here and been here for over a decade.
For sure I'm not saying just let people cross the border and then point to their kids to never get thrown out again. There can be clear rules to minimize exploitation.

[samhain]

(09-10-2023, 01:44 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The rich elite want illegals for their slave labor, they absolutely do not want them living anywhere near them; which is my point.  Please show me a community with wealthy people that have or would vote for housing to be put into their community for the homeless, illegals, mentally ill, etc.  That would get voted down unanimously.  That's for us peasants to deal with.  

Look at nyc.  Sanctuary city.  We love and welcome everyone.  Bunch of fake, virtue signaling frauds.  Now illegals are going to literally destroy nyc according to mayor.  What a joke these people are.  It was all great until they had to back up their talk and poliices.

You type all this maga this white national that.  People have a spectrum of viewpoiints.  I support some Left views and I suppoort some right views.  I am a registered Independent.  I am willing to compromise on any issue as there are always 2 sides and nobody can get everything they want.  I am a fierce supporter of our military, police, first reposnders.  I love my country and want it to be great always.  I am also white.  I'd be interested to see how you stereotype me.

You called me a tough guy, keyboard warrior, etc, but I see you doing the same thing but worse.  You are just stereotyping poeple and labeling them.  I called out one persons intelligence (mayor adams) based on their specific actions and statements and called our pols on both sides a girl part for the very specific reason of not securing our border and adopting sound immigration policies over the decades.

You are just making excuses for why illegal immigration should be allowed.  Heck, i'm already down 700-800 a month since Biden came into office, might as well rip off the band-aid and get rid of the cheap illegal alien labor also.

As far as minimum wage, it is absolutely true if you keep raising it companies will keep raising prices.  McDonalads is not supposed to be a job you buy a house with and raise a family.

Call me when you can form an original thought without the Newsmax playbook.  You are literally doing shit that's beneath a 10 year old with this "I know you are but what am I" absurdity.  

It's good to see you not denying being a white nationalist, though.  I appreciate honesty.

It matters zero if I think illegal immigrantion should be allowed.  It's never going to end.  Too much reward for the risk. 

Look at the bright side: whenever the right wants to get mad about something, it will provide a constant source of brown people to complain about.

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-15-2023, 10:04 PM)samhain Wrote: Call me when you can form an original thought without the Newsmax playbook.  You are literally doing shit that's beneath a 10 year old with this "I know you are but what am I" absurdity.  

It's good to see you not denying being a white nationalist, though.  I appreciate honesty.

It matters zero if I think illegal immigrantion should be allowed.  It's never going to end.  Too much reward for the risk. 

Look at the bright side: whenever the right wants to get mad about something, it will provide a constant source of brown people to complain about.

Cop out lib logic. We're having an influx greater now than ever in history, which started the second Biden took office. Plenty of desirable countries that have much more money than we do around the world have no problem with it. The man in charge has a lot of control over it. Also your straw man about stronger borders = hating brown people is ridiculous. The black mayor of NYC now sees what a problem it is... is he a white nationalist for saying, "Illegal immigrants will be the death of the US"? Legal immigration is different from illegal immigration. 

Also, instead of insulting where you think the person got their info from, why don't you actually refute the points and not doing a sh*tty job of it.

[grampahol]

If the puppet Charlie McCarthy formerly known as Kevin and mad Marge get their way of course there will be a recession if not a global depression. 
But we will have another recession. That's always just a matter of time. It's how capitalism works with it's boom and bust cycles..I've lost track of how many we've already had in my lifetime and guess which party is almost always in the white house when they happen..Hint: Elephants really do forget..Who would have ever guessed? 

[grampahol]

(09-15-2023, 10:57 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Cop out lib logic. We're having an influx greater now than ever in history, which started the second Biden took office. Plenty of desirable countries that have much more money than we do around the world have no problem with it. The man in charge has a lot of control over it. Also your straw man about stronger borders = hating brown people is ridiculous. The black mayor of NYC now sees what a problem it is... is he a white nationalist for saying, "Illegal immigrants will be the death of the US"? Legal immigration is different from illegal immigration. 

Also, instead of insulting where you think the person got their info from, why don't you actually refute the points and not doing a sh*tty job of it.

Ever been to Texas by chance? If immigration was such a drag on the economy Texas would be flat broke by now and would have to sell off half the state to Mexico..
So would California..
We have labor shortages with no help in sight simply because younger generations decided they evidently don't like screwing to replace us old people..
FACT:I'm one of the youngest of the largest workforce in American history and I'm retired.. There will be no larger workforce without immigration and the United States is not alone in this problem. It's far worse in nearly the entire developed world. China is toast as is Russia and most of Asia. Europe has far fewer young people than the US. 
About the only large population with a very young workforce left in the world is in Africa. 
South America has become a basket case of instability no thanks to US policies over the past 50 or so years and the people trying to make it across the border are going to keep coming regardless of who is in the white house. Walls are not going to stop people from wanting to survive, but what might help is to relocate many of the factories that demand low wage workers can fill might. Since China is going tits up put those factories in the Southern hemisphere and quit ***** around.. 

[hollodero]

(09-15-2023, 10:04 PM)samhain Wrote: It's good to see you not denying being a white nationalist, though.  I appreciate honesty.

Oh come on. Calling him a white nationalist is unnecessary.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-16-2023, 11:00 AM)hollodero Wrote: Oh come on. Calling him a white nationalist is unnecessary.

I wouldn't worry about it, it doesn't have the effect he thinks it does and it's just a self reflection of how he really feels. You can tell from his arguments he's simply not interested in finding a common ground, and just pushes people further away from his views.

PS I did have a nice response you our previous discussion but my PC decided to install an update and re-start before i posted as i was still doing some thought on some parts.  I'll get back around to it soon

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-11-2023, 09:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'd guess because most illegal immigrants don't qualify for asylum. They don't flee war or persecution, just a dangerous life without perspective.
Not sure why you call them "that type" that you do not need here. They usually work hard in any awful job for little pay, they don't steal jobs away (not with this unemployment rate anyway), and there seems to be no indication that I am aware of that they are more prone to crimes than Americans. They just don't qualify as refugees.

Strong vs Weak, you see it all the time. Illegals can't go to the police (fear of deportation and if it's a gang member then retaliation from the gang) and gangs will take an advantage of that.

That type refers to the people that don't have good intentions. 

(09-11-2023, 09:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, apparently not, since visa overstays, from what I've seen, exceed illegal border crossings and contribute more to the illegal population. It seems many visa overstays do not get caught or followed up.
Which, yeah, as a non-American is weird enough, no denying that. We would actually find them, and there's little chance they find work and a roof as illegals. It's what I mean that apparently illegals in the US are widely tolerated, from employers, landlords, states and the government possibly because the economy just wants or needs the cheap labor.

Visa overstays are a problem as well, i haven't ever said they weren't but it's not an excuse to not stop illegal crossings. 
Get those under control and then you can focus on overstays. Gotta keep taking those baby steps, it's not a problem that can be fixed overnight. 
Already have said that we need to get all Airlines and Crossings updated with better reporting as some actually do leave but it's not always updated in the system.  And i have no idea why UK is the leader in overstays, guess they didn't get the memo of 1776 that we aren't a colony anymore. And some overstays apply for Aslyym which means they are safe from deportation for likely 5+ years (court time and appeal if denied). 

Illegals actually take jobs from Documented workers and USC's. Yea yea i get the whole cheap labor thing, but i think it's much more a political rhetoric than actual truth. 

Truth is we can only handle so much uneducated labor. I am curious though how Austria has become one of the most Anti-Immigrant counties out there now.
If we only had about a 3-4% immigration rate like you guys, i'm sure we could handle that, but ours fluctuates between 13-15% of our total population, and we simply don't have the resources to handle that volume.

One thing that i hate most, is when EU went thru the Muslim refugees, some countries put up fences/barricades along their borders to help control the problem, yet we get looked down upon because we want to protect our borders as well?

(09-11-2023, 09:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: Sure there is. Let the kids stay. At least those that know little else but the US throughout their life because they've grown up here and been here for over a decade.
For sure I'm not saying just let people cross the border and then point to their kids to never get thrown out again. There can be clear rules to minimize exploitation.

There's no easy way to solve that and no one will be 100% happy with anything that is done. 
Only thing i can think, is if the family has to go because of parents status, the kids can stay with a relative who are willing to take over financial responsibility for their family members or worst case, if no one will take them on, put them up for adoption. That's just splitting up families again and we all know how well the left will exploit that emotion. It's a decision the Parents made and will have to live with. Ofc changing Citizenship to BLOOD would be a major deterrent. That would require a 2/3'rds vote in House/Senate to ratify an amendment and i just have no faith in that happening anytime soon.

[*pally*]

(09-16-2023, 05:02 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Strong vs Weak, you see it all the time. Illegals can't go to the police (fear of deportation and if it's a gang member then retaliation from the gang) and gangs will take an advantage of that.

That type refers to the people that don't have good intentions. 


Visa overstays are a problem as well, i haven't ever said they weren't but it's not an excuse to not stop illegal crossings. 
Get those under control and then you can focus on overstays. Gotta keep taking those baby steps, it's not a problem that can be fixed overnight. 
Already have said that we need to get all Airlines and Crossings updated with better reporting as some actually do leave but it's not always updated in the system.  And i have no idea why UK is the leader in overstays, guess they didn't get the memo of 1776 that we aren't a colony anymore. And some overstays apply for Aslyym which means they are safe from deportation for likely 5+ years (court time and appeal if denied). 

Illegals actually take jobs from Documented workers and USC's. Yea yea i get the whole cheap labor thing, but i think it's much more a political rhetoric than actual truth. 

Truth is we can only handle so much uneducated labor. I am curious though how Austria has become one of the most Anti-Immigrant counties out there now.
If we only had about a 3-4% immigration rate like you guys, i'm sure we could handle that, but ours fluctuates between 13-15% of our total population, and we simply don't have the resources to handle that volume.

One thing that i hate most, is when EU went thru the Muslim refugees, some countries put up fences/barricades along their borders to help control the problem, yet we get looked down upon because we want to protect our borders as well?


There's no easy way to solve that and no one will be 100% happy with anything that is done. 
Only thing i can think, is if the family has to go because of parents status, the kids can stay with a relative who are willing to take over financial responsibility for their family members or worst case, if no one will take them on, put them up for adoption. That's just splitting up families again and we all know how well the left will exploit that emotion. It's a decision the Parents made and will have to live with. Ofc changing Citizenship to BLOOD would be a major deterrent. That would require a 2/3'rds vote in House/Senate to ratify an amendment and i just have no faith in that happening anytime soon.

Part of the problem is that the US only issues 675,000 permanent immigration visas per year.  That's .2% of our 332 million-person population.  We can easily absorb far more than that.  Even increasing that number to a minimal 4% would result in 1.4 million legal immigrants.  Our overall immigration rate is nowhere near 10-15%.   Austria has a population of 9 million with far more limited liveable land so cannot absorb more than about 2-3%.  The entire US undocumented population is estimated to be about 12 million people.  And it is estimated that more than 50% of those have been here for more than 10 years

We always talk about how many are coming in but those numbers are balanced out by people voluntarily or involuntarily leaving. Many of those crossing the border really are doing it seasonally for migrant farm work.  They come and go on a regular basis.  

If you want to slow down illegal immigration the first step isn't a wall that was being breached on a daily basis.  It is making wholesale changes to our legal immigration system and making it more available to people worldwide, especially to those in Mexico and Central America.  We need to spread out those visas and provide them to unskilled laborers as well as high-earning educated persons.  We need those unskilled laborers as much as we need those techy folks.  

Congress unfortunately would rather keep immigration as an unsolved political football so each side can blame the other for the problems instead of fixing the issue.  And yes that includes getting California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas more resources to deal with the problems stemming from being a border state.  Better security measures may include strategic walls but it can't end there.  We need more human resources, more electronic surveillance, better facilities and procedures for handling asylum seekers. We need better ways of tracking people who are here on an asylum basis or on a temporary visa.