Forum reset

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 03:45 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Guys this is Politics and Religion.  Two of the most polarizing topics on the planet.  People are going to disagree with you vehemently and things will get heated. Period.  If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.  If you don't want to be called racist, or bigot, or liberal, or whatever, then don't post.  It's pretty much that simple.  If you do post, better be prepared to defend it.  Sometimes people can change their minds, I have from time to time.  I think that might be peoples biggest hurdle.  Admitting you were wrong can hurt sometimes.

Time to pull on your big boy pants sometimes.  If you're easily offended don't come in here.  And if you do for cryin out loud stop whining/crying.  There are those that I feel like I can discuss things with even if we disagree without name calling.  There are others I avoid because I know it's going to go know where.

And this illustates the difference in outlooks. You are suggesting a forum that can grow heated be less moderated sort of a "let boys be boys" mentality. I think such a forum should be more strictly moderated and don't consider the call for such as "whining or crying".

I also do not consider the epitome of pulling on one's "big boy pants" insulting someone on a message board. In fact I view it as just the opposite' I see it as childish and immature.  

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 03:55 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Unfortunately, the bigger person course of action doesn't do anything to illuminate reality to someone who direly needs it.  

I didn't suggest you do it for their benefit.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-02-2015, 03:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I also do not consider the epitome of pulling on one's "big boy pants" insulting someone on a message board. In fact I view it as just the opposite' I see it as childish and immature.  

enough about you.

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 04:04 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: enough about you.

See

[djs7685]

(11-02-2015, 04:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't suggest you do it for their benefit.

I just don't see ignoring it and saying "well, looks like we disagree!" to every strong opinion making for good debate whatsoever.

You need to face the reality that when discussing politics and religion, you can't separate the post from the poster as you can do with football and other, less controversial topics.

Fred hit the nail on the head. When your opinion is "it's my personal belief and that's that", then YOU become the target for discussion. You put yourself out there as the discussion point, not any of us. Anybody should be free to comment on any poster that puts themselves in that situation.

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 04:10 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I just don't see ignoring it and saying "well, looks like we disagree!" to every strong opinion making for good debate whatsoever.

You need to face the reality that when discussing politics and religion, you can't separate the post from the poster as you can do with football and other, less controversial topics.

Fred hit the nail on the head. When your opinion is "it's my personal belief and that's that", then YOU become the target for discussion. You put yourself out there as the discussion point, not any of us. Anybody should be free to comment on any poster that puts themselves in that situation.

I don't see calling someone derogatory names as good for debate. We just differ on the techniques of a good "debate".

[djs7685]

(11-02-2015, 04:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: See

See what?

I see that a guy poked fun at something you've said dozens of times, and now you think it proved your point somehow.

This is the issue. You're allowed to do whatever you'd like, but others can't. You just want the rules to have a Bfine write in section. Whenever you want to throw snark in all over the place, that's fine. If others do it?? PERSONAL ATTACK!

Do you "see" now? It's an issue, man. I don't want to start a huge back and forth about this, I'll let it go, but damn it if you didn't just prove what is actually wrong with most of your suggestions here.

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 04:14 PM)djs7685 Wrote: See what?

I see that a guy poked fun at something you've said dozens of times, and now you think it proved your point somehow.

This is the issue. You're allowed to do whatever you'd like, but others can't. You just want the rules to have a Bfine write in section. Whenever you want to throw snark in all over the place, that's fine. If others do it?? PERSONAL ATTACK!

Do you "see" now? It's an issue, man. I don't want to start a huge back and forth about this, I'll let it go, but damn it if you didn't just prove what is actually wrong with most of your suggestions here.

Where has I been snarky in this discussion?

Also show me where I have asked for special rules. I think all should abide by the CoC; others do not.

But as was said....Enough about me.

[djs7685]

(11-02-2015, 04:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Where has I been snarky in this discussion?

Also show me where I have asked for special rules. I think all should abide by the CoC; others do not.

But as was said....Enough about me.

I said I'll drop it, so I will, but I will clarify for you.

I guess my point is that this is all strange coming from you in a way. An attack on a person's character comes in many more forms than just the blatant "you're an idiot". I'm sure you know that.

This is like if the leader of the Klan came out and said that we need to stop bothering black people, or if Hitler put out a PSA to feed the needy jewish folks. I can't take all of this seriously from somebody with your background. You may pride yourself on not using many direct insults, but you beat around the bush and indirectly (purposely) insult people here on a daily basis.

There is a thread now about PnR going forward, so this will be my last post on this topic. Thanks for the discussion though, it was nice to get all of this out in the open today.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-02-2015, 04:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: See

so, you're allowed to call someone childish and immature, but others can't redirect the statement in a patented bfine manner?  got it.

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 04:59 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: so, you're allowed to call someone childish and immature, but others can't redirect the statement in a patented bfine manner?  got it.

Who did I call childish or immature?

I simply stated the act of insulting another person was childish and immature. If I would have said you are childish and immature because you insult folks; then that would be me calling someone such. I find a vast difference between stating someone's thoughts on a subject may be childish and actually stating they are childish. (I know)

The mentality is absurd to me and sort of reminds me of a famous sports soundbite: "Coach treats us like men, he allows us to wear earrings." "PnR forum treats us like adults, it allows us to call each other names." 

This also brings to light another issue:  taking things that were not said and stating they were.

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 04:34 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I said I'll drop it, so I will, but I will clarify for you.

I guess my point is that this is all strange coming from you in a way. An attack on a person's character comes in many more forms than just the blatant "you're an idiot". I'm sure you know that.

This is like if the leader of the Klan came out and said that we need to stop bothering black people, or if Hitler put out a PSA to feed the needy jewish folks. I can't take all of this seriously from somebody with your background. You may pride yourself on not using many direct insults, but you beat around the bush and indirectly (purposely) insult people here on a daily basis.

There is a thread now about PnR going forward, so this will be my last post on this topic. Thanks for the discussion though, it was nice to get all of this out in the open today.

Fair enough and I agree the discussion could perhaps be constructive.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-02-2015, 02:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: while there are others that feel such a forum requires stiffer moderation to keep conversations out of the gutter.

My safe word is "don't stop."

[Vas Deferens]

(11-02-2015, 05:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who did I call childish or immature?

I simply stated the act of insulting another person was childish and immature. If I would have said you are childish and immature because you insult folks; then that would be me calling someone such. I find a vast difference between stating someone's thoughts on a subject may be childish and actually stating they are childish. (I know)

The mentality is absurd to me and sort of reminds me of a famous sports soundbite: "Coach treats us like men, he allows us to wear earrings." "PnR forum treats us like adults, it allows us to call each other names." 

This also brings to light another issue:  taking things that were not said and stating they were.

I wasn't really calling you childish and immature, because I don't think you are.  It was more of a statement on the patented 'enough about me' comment you like to use; which I think leans towards being a childish OR immature line of response.  

Who have I insulted btw?

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2015, 05:16 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I wasn't really calling you childish and immature, because I don't think you are.  It was more of a statement on the patented 'enough about me' comment you like to use; which I think leans towards being a childish OR immature line of response.  

Who have I insulted btw?

I didn't suggest you called anyone childish or immature; nor did I accuse you of insulting anyone. I simply stated I find the point of veiw that insulting someone is somehow a sign of maturity to be absurd.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-02-2015, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't suggest you called anyone childish or immature; nor did I accuse you of insulting anyone. I simply stated I find the point of veiw that insulting someone is somehow a sign of maturity to be absurd.

OK.  We're way off base here.  Carry on.

[BmorePat87]

I'm guilty of personal attacks in response to bigotry. I believed that constant racism/homophobia/transphobia needed to be called out.

I'm not going to pretend like my own actions were justified. I even messaged some mods and told them that I understand some of my posts may be borderline violations of the rules and asked them to just give me a heads up if I crossed the line. I just cannot stomach the idea of someone constantly posting derogatory statements and expecting us to just accept it as a civil discussion.

That said, I am happy to reset myself and any feuds or established opinions I had about others. I know I was no better than some at times, so I'm not trying to sit here on a high horse.

I think going forward, any outward bigotry shouldn't have a home here. That includes blanket attacks on conservative religious groups or people. Insulting a Christian for their belief is just as bad as someone hating on Muslims, assuming we are not discussing beliefs from these groups that justify discrimination. I don't think we should call Christians "unintelligent" or Muslims "savages", but saying that Christians need to stop legislating their scientific beliefs or that Muslims need to treat women equally is a legitimate conversation.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 05:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I simply stated the act of insulting another person was childish and immature. If I would have said you are childish and immature because you insult folks; then that would be me calling someone such. I find a vast difference between stating someone's thoughts on a subject may be childish and actually stating they are childish. (I know)

So I can call people who believe in Christianity stupid as long as I don't use anyone's name?

If that is what you are talking about then I haven't really seen many personal attacks around here.  Almost every time I have seen a person here get all upset over an "insult" it has been directed at that person's beliefs instead of that person.  

So, just to make it clear, you have no problem with me using a line like "Anyone who believes___________ is childish and immature."  Right?

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 03:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No one is suggesting you pander to anyone; perhaps just take solice in being the bigger person.

"Being the bigger person" applies to situations where I avoid conflict in order to spare other innocent bystanders from having an uncomfortable conflict forced upon them.

There is no motive to do anything like that here.  I am not going to waste my time coming here just to say "I respectfully disagree with your opinion so let's leave it at that."  What is the point of that?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-02-2015, 04:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: See

You're funny.