Four LEOs fatally shot

[*bfine32*]

Latest on Dallas 5 Officers now dead. Up to 6 snipers suspected.

[*bfine32*]

(07-08-2016, 10:15 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: http://www.complex.com/life/2016/07/former-congressman-threatens-obama-twitter-dallas

Wife just forwarded this to me.

Individual should be arrested and prosecuted for trying to incite a riot, at a minimum and criminal threatening.

[Bmoreblitz]

Those LEOs had nothing to do with everything going on. My heart goes out to their families. Killing someone not knowing who they are or what they stand for.

[GMDino]

(07-08-2016, 10:40 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Latest on Dallas 5 Officers now dead. Up to 6 snipers suspected.

Did the POTUS get charged yet?  

[Rotobeast]

(07-08-2016, 11:17 AM)GMDino Wrote: Did the POTUS get charged yet?  

He might not be directly guilty, but I'm with Bfine that the blood trickles his way for shaping the culture into what it is today.
It's not much different than what Trump's been accused of, with Muslim animosity.
Obama is just far more eloquent and vague.

[Belsnickel]

(07-08-2016, 10:37 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Now the Capitol is on lockdown. Suspected woman with a gun.

It really is sad how much had been going on lately. Again, I don't know if it is truly an uptick or if we are just hearing about it more, but it is very concerning.

(07-08-2016, 10:38 AM)GMDino Wrote: Sorry, my bad.

I didn't have time to click on the link and read your quote that it was deleted.

What  POS that guy is.

It's all good. I figured that was the case.

(07-08-2016, 10:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Individual should be arrested and prosecuted for trying to incite a riot, at a minimum and criminal threatening.

Oh, I have no doubt that he will be getting a visit from some federal LEOs.

(07-08-2016, 11:13 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Those LEOs had nothing to do with everything going on. My heart goes out to their families. Killing someone not knowing who they are or what they stand for.

This is part of the problem with how the information is put out there. Instead of individual actions, we like to make people a part of a group and then blame the group. This isn't to say we shouldn't look at the group when something like this happens, but recognizing that there is a distinction between those that carried out these actions and the group as a whole is often a line that gets blurry for some people. Whether we are talking about cops, Muslims, the LGBT community, feminists, whatever.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-08-2016, 09:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Even if there wasn't a race angle being highlighted there would be another one. People killing other people. Police get so much attention because they have authority. The citizens of this country want them to be held to a higher standard, to be perfect, but we are all humans and no one is perfect. No matter whether the angle is race, gender, religion, ethnicity, whatever, it boils down tot he police having authority and power and when people are killed by police in ways that are seen by the public as questionable it is going to create a backlash because it is seen as an abuse of that power.

How we fix this, I don't know. There are a lot of theories out there, a lot of ways LE agencies around the country, and really the world, try to do community outreach to make it so there isn't so much tension. But because they have that authority, that power, any minor slip up is magnified in the minds of those that feel a commonality to those that are the victims. And that isn't to say the use of deadly force unnecessarily is a minor slip up, just saying that even minor slip ups are magnified, so situations like those as of late are even more tumultuous.

Edit to add: I am not saying they don't deserve a high level of scrutiny, because anyone given the authority they have by the state should be under scrutiny, I am just explaining why this becomes such a heated topic.

Very well stated, kudos to you.

[*bfine32*]

(07-08-2016, 11:42 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: He might not be directly guilty, but I'm with Bfine that the blood trickles his way for shaping the culture into what it is today.
It's not much different than what Trump's been accused of, with Muslim animosity.
Obama is just far more eloquent and vague.

But it's OK to criticize Trump's words because he is a hateful bigot. Just earlier this week I read an article that stated he was responsible for a Muslim getting arrested in an Ohio hotel.

WTS, credit to POTUS as he has come out to ensure his hands are clean:
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/barack-obama-on-dallas-shooting-vicious-calculated-attack-w212414

It seems he relooked his words yesterday and wanted to make sure there was no confusion on his point. Good on him. Now maybe he can work toward healing and less division. This is why I suggested he should look at his hands and he did just that.

[GMDino]

(07-08-2016, 11:42 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: He might not be directly guilty, but I'm with Bfine that the blood trickles his way for shaping the culture into what it is today.
It's not much different than what Trump's been accused of, with Muslim animosity.
Obama is just far more eloquent and vague.

(07-08-2016, 11:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: But it's OK to criticize Trump's words because he is a hateful bigot. Just earlier this week I read an article that stated he was responsible for a Muslim getting arrested in an Ohio hotel.

WTS, credit to POTUS as he has come out to ensure his hands are clean:
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/barack-obama-on-dallas-shooting-vicious-calculated-attack-w212414

It seems he relooked his words yesterday and wanted to make sure there was no confusion on his point. Good on him. Now maybe he can work toward healing and less division. This is why I suggested he should look at his hands and he did just that.

So you can't complain that the President didn't say anything publicly so you complain that he's just CYA?

Oh, and good thing you aren't defending Trump...all the time.  

[Millhouse]

Prayers & sympathies to the families and loved ones of the officers murdered.

[Rotobeast]

(07-08-2016, 12:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: So you can't complain that the President didn't say anything publicly so you complain that he's just CYA?

Oh, and good thing you aren't defending Trump...all the time.  

I defend Trump ?

[GMDino]

(07-08-2016, 12:22 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I defend Trump ?

No, Larry "doesn't" defend Trump.

I meant to respond to you separately.

[GMDino]

(07-08-2016, 12:22 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I defend Trump ?

No, Larry "doesn't" defend Trump.

I meant to respond to you separately.

[Millhouse]

I think it is time that the blm movement get rid of that first word and change it to all. This needs to come from the top down from the likes of Sharpton, NAACP, & Obama.

One thing I have noticed while watching the news this morning is that the cops that were there going after the shooter(s?) were white, black, and latino, with a black police chief ordering the rc bomb sent in killing the black racist shooter.

[Rotobeast]

(07-08-2016, 12:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: No, Larry "doesn't" defend Trump.

I meant to respond to you separately.

Np.... just had to make sure.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-08-2016, 12:32 PM)Millhouse Wrote: ...with a black police chief ordering the rc bomb sent in killing the black racist shooter.

I saw that reported, but did they really kill him with an RC bomb, or did the robot detonate the shooter's bomb, or did the shooter just do it himself?

Because if they used an RC bomb to take the shooter out, WOW.  I mean, it makes sense and is justifiable, I've just never heard of it before and it's a bit disconcerting.

[masterpanthera_t]

(07-08-2016, 09:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Even if there wasn't a race angle being highlighted there would be another one. People killing other people. Police get so much attention because they have authority. The citizens of this country want them to be held to a higher standard, to be perfect, but we are all humans and no one is perfect. No matter whether the angle is race, gender, religion, ethnicity, whatever, it boils down tot he police having authority and power and when people are killed by police in ways that are seen by the public as questionable it is going to create a backlash because it is seen as an abuse of that power.

How we fix this, I don't know. There are a lot of theories out there, a lot of ways LE agencies around the country, and really the world, try to do community outreach to make it so there isn't so much tension. But because they have that authority, that power, any minor slip up is magnified in the minds of those that feel a commonality to those that are the victims. And that isn't to say the use of deadly force unnecessarily is a minor slip up, just saying that even minor slip ups are magnified, so situations like those as of late are even more tumultuous.

Edit to add: I am not saying they don't deserve a high level of scrutiny, because anyone given the authority they have by the state should be under scrutiny, I am just explaining why this becomes such a heated topic.

Apologies, for the long post to follow, it ended up longer than I initially expected.

It is absolutely regrettable that we have reached this state of existence in our country today and I'm totally concerned about this American vs. American mentality. We've reached a total and complete mistrust of each other within the nation and it's exemplified in groups blaming one another without taking any genuine steps to address each other's concerns or even find out if "facts" that are understood by various groups are true or not. I do not have any concrete solutions, but it's high time we as Americans have a discussion of what ails the black community (and any other impoverished community for that matter) and make a concerted effort to address these issues genuinely. Along with this discussion there needs to be a clear explanation of what a police officer faces when attempting to perform the job. There needs to be transparency both in the reporting of statistics by the police departments and a better explanation of an LEO's concerns and perspectives whenever a stop/other escalations are performed. Also, a more open discussion from the perspective of detainees (not the ones who are actually convicted of a crime, but ones who are stopped, for whatever reason and allowed to continue on with their day with the officer finding them to be NOT in violation). There is clearly a disconnect between law enforcement and the people, since the people perceive an abuse of power, and the officer potentially executed job tasks in compliance with protocol. Maybe a clearer explanation of the protocol, the natural steps of escalation, etc., could be a beginning. Also, an open discussion from the perspective of detainees on why they perceived an abuse of power, and a response from the police community in detail on why the "perception" is not reality.

As citizens, many times when we're not directly affected by these situations, there is a perception that the courts can handle the cases against an officer "justly", while those who have been on the other side perceive system wide bias. LEOs are by and large "good" and have a high stress job that requires great levels of composure, and a high percentage of them likely show the composure that are orders of magnitude better than the average citizen. However - and I could be wrong - there surely must exist a more stringent testing system to test the stress handling levels of prospective candidates entering the LEO applicant pool. I will defer to those who are experienced in this field; our resident board member SSF, being one. While I truly sympathize with the the police for the stress and high pressure placed on them, I don't feel it is right to dismiss the perspectives of the minorities who feel wrongfully profiled. Even given the statistics of who commits crimes, I don't feel that the statements of minorities can be summarily dismissed as incorrect when they claim unreasonable bias.

I will raise another point, and once again defer to SSF. Is it possible that some (by some, I mean a significant enough number that leads to the perceptions by minorities/regular citizens) police officers who may have at first joined the force with noble intentions and a level head, have over time been stressed to the point that their views/ability to keep their composure have been eroded to the point that their "outlet" for venting is to abuse their power on the powerless?

Transparency nationwide is a must, since it seems (maybe incorrectly to me), that enforcement policies/protocol vary in different regions and the judicial system's rulings don't seem to be following a standard line of application. And the other part of the discussion would probably be how to educate the poor communities of the nation to a high enough level that their access to economic and intellectual gain can be greatly broadened so that we have an intelligent/aware citizenry that is able to deduce how/why certain interactions with the police have come to be and how they may be able to effectively navigate theses interactions and have their questions addressed post-interaction through the government. Also, overall educational goal achievement can go a long way towards changing this perception.

Having typed all this, I acknowledge the above could just be a pipe dream, since most Americans neither have the time nor inclination to concern themselves with any type of social reform unless it has directly affected them.

[Au165]

Being black does not inherently make you a criminal and being a cop does not inherently make you racist. If both those preconceived notions can be overcome we have a chance. The first thing that needs to happen is the media needs to stop portraying both as such. Every case is unique, but we have started treating them like they are connected.

[GMDino]

And another "adult" and elected official helps with the healing:

[Au165]

(07-08-2016, 03:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: And another "adult" and elected official helps with the healing:

Another example of perception not being reality.