FoxNews declares Dems take control of Senate

[*Nately120*]

(01-06-2021, 10:17 PM)jason Wrote: They themselves thought they were done after the 2012 election though. It's easy to forget that 365 days ago it appeared Trump would cruise to reelection and the Republicans would easily hold on to the Senate... But I do agree that the party is in a world of hurt right now.

A lot can happen between now and the mid terms and 2024 and so on and we've had a very one side then the other back and forth sort of government.  With that being said, I can't say I've ever seen a president gleefully do so much damage to his own party, either.  

[*jason*]

(01-06-2021, 10:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: A lot can happen between now and the mid terms and 2024 and so on and we've had a very one side then the other back and forth sort of government.  With that being said, I can't say I've ever seen a president gleefully do so much damage to his own party, either.  

Yep... It's also odd that so many lined up to help him do it. I know they have to play to a constituency, but I do still truly believe that most Americans are sorta down the middle, and not on the extreme left or right. The ol silent majority that shakes their heads at this shit.

[*Nately120*]

(01-06-2021, 10:42 PM)jason Wrote: Yep... It's also odd that so many lined up to help him do it. I know they have to play to a constituency, but I do still truly believe that most Americans are sorta down the middle, and not on the extreme left or right. The ol silent majority that shakes their heads at this shit.

Right now Pence is the enemy of the Trump mob because he "won't stop the steal" not that he can, but lord knows truth doesn't matter in this case.  How long before the senators who protested are thrown under the bus by Trump?  They could have stopped the steal, but they didn't fight hard enough, they didn't make enough good points, they backed down.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-06-2021, 10:42 PM)jason Wrote: Yep... It's also odd that so many lined up to help him do it. I know they have to play to a constituency, but I do still truly believe that most Americans are sorta down the middle, and not on the extreme left or right. The ol silent majority that shakes their heads at this shit.

I remember years ago when CNN was the only 24/7 news network. There was a discussion about race and there were three old black men and three old white men. Lots of jib jab back and forth and there was one black guy that said nothing. The host noticed this and called on him while politely telling the others "Let him speak, we've heard enough from you for now".

He said one segment the entire show, it was over 30 years ago and it has stuck with me to this day . . . "Look. Both sides have a some geniuses, most of us are average and it's the few idiots that are the ones that are making the news. Don't blame everybody for their individual failures of character".

Kind of fits today.

[CJD]

(01-06-2021, 10:02 PM)Benton Wrote: I dunno.

In typical years I would agree with you. But the gop is all ****ed up at the moment. Mcconnell is trying 39 year old tricks to try and hold it together, which is getting his house graffitied and the capitol shot up.

Normally, I'd say you were right. But not any more. I'll be surprised if the Republicans gain much of any ground for the next 4-6 years.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If we know one thing about the Republican voting base, it is that they are exceedingly forgiving of corruption, racism, sexism and corporate greed and, seemingly, have an extremely short memory regarding anything Republicans do that is "bad" but will never forget the "bad" things that Democrats do.

I think this is aided by their propaganda networks, of which there used to be only 1 (Fox) but now there's like 10 of them. The wonders of the internet age...

I fully expect them to flip 4 or 5 Democrat seats in 2022 and then grind the government to a halt once again. In regards to the house, the maps are being redrawn this year, if I'm not mistaken, and with the majority of state legislatures in the Republicans' hands, I wouldn't count on a fair congressional map in most states. We're probably looking at a 20% delta in terms of representation vs votes (a state may vote 60% Democrat in total over all of the districts, but only have 40% of the house seats), if not even worse.

So I hope Biden has an aggressive agenda set for 2021 and 2022, because I very much anticipate 2023 being the end of any kind of real progress made by our government on any of the major issues this country faces. And that's excluding the ones that even the Democrats don't want to see fixed, like the pharmaceutical and medical healthcare industry. So we're already starting from a pretty weak position in terms of hope for change, but it's likely only going to get worse from here.

[Dill]

(01-06-2021, 07:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The Dems will lose the Senate in 2022, no doubt about it to me. They may even lose the House, as well. That depends a lot on how the GOP reacts int he wake of everything.

The GOP is pretty broken right now, and former luminaries like Sarah Palin are floating the idea of a 3rd party as a means of separating from establishment (party) machinery, which many in her camp blame for losing the Senate and presidency--because they failed to support Trump enough. That suggests political fantasy may continue to guide political strategy for many in the party. Other more establishment types are repeating what they said after Romney's loss--the party needs to recognize demographic changes and work actively to include minorities etc. But that is not what built the Trump coalition.

it will be the work of Fox commentators and other right wing opinion leaders to formulate a narrative which can knit the party back into a large enough voting block again by 2022. I think there is a good chance, though, that large numbers of Trump-motivated voters will lapse back into apathy. Others will only become more extreme an alienating. 

I should add that I doubt that yesterday's events are the final Trump outrage. More craziness to come in the final weeks. 

All of which is to say that, while conventional wisdom and precedent suggest Dems losses in 2022, I think this next election cycle may prove an exception. If Biden can keep a steady course, reap the benefits of pandemic recovery, I would not be surprised if Dems hold the House at least. 

Two years is a long time in politics though. And anti-socialist disinformation is still a potent political tool.

[Benton]

(01-07-2021, 01:04 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If we know one thing about the Republican voting base, it is that they are exceedingly forgiving of corruption, racism, sexism and corporate greed and, seemingly, have an extremely short memory regarding anything Republicans do that is "bad" but will never forget the "bad" things that Democrats do.

I think this is aided by their propaganda networks, of which there used to be only 1 (Fox) but now there's like 10 of them. The wonders of the internet age...

I fully expect them to flip 4 or 5 Democrat seats in 2022 and then grind the government to a halt once again. In regards to the house, the maps are being redrawn this year, if I'm not mistaken, and with the majority of state legislatures in the Republicans' hands, I wouldn't count on a fair congressional map in most states. We're probably looking at a 20% delta in terms of representation vs votes (a state may vote 60% Democrat in total over all of the districts, but only have 40% of the house seats), if not even worse.

So I hope Biden has an aggressive agenda set for 2021 and 2022, because I very much anticipate 2023 being the end of any kind of real progress made by our government on any of the major issues this country faces. And that's excluding the ones that even the Democrats don't want to see fixed, like the pharmaceutical and medical healthcare industry. So we're already starting from a pretty weak position in terms of hope for change, but it's likely only going to get worse from here.

Understood. But there are a lot of Republicans leaving the party over the trump issue. Most weren't really Republicans anyway (personally, I miss my old party), they just weren't democrats. They voted republican as a way to not vote Democrat. 

I think for the next few years, a lot of them just won't vote, or they'll be voting for fringe, trump-like candidates.

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2021, 10:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Right now Pence is the enemy of the Trump mob because he "won't stop the steal" not that he can, but lord knows truth doesn't matter in this case. 

The Christian coalition that is such a big part of the Republican party kind of held their noses while voting for Trump.  But Pence is the real icon of that crowd.  I think a lot of that group will turn on Trump for throwing Pence under the bus.

[fredtoast]

The pandemic will have long term effects on the economy. There is a limit to how much money the government can just keep printing to artificially pump it up. Plus the economy was starting to turn downward even before the covid outbreak.

Biden could possibly take the blame and the Republicans could be back in the majority within 2 years.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-07-2021, 03:57 PM)Benton Wrote: Understood. But there are a lot of Republicans leaving the party over the trump issue. Most weren't really Republicans anyway (personally, I miss my old party), they just weren't democrats. They voted republican as a way to not vote Democrat. 

I think for the next few years, a lot of them just won't vote, or they'll be voting for fringe, trump-like candidates.

Al of this will be determined by how the Dems exercise their control over the next two years.  If Congress starts hitting the progressive wish list, e.g. packing the SCOTUS, DC and Puerto Rico statehood, UBI, Universal Health Care with no private option, etc. then you'll see those people return to voting GOP for the same reason you correctly pointed out they did before, because they aren't the Democrats.

[Benton]

(01-07-2021, 07:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Al of this will be determined by how the Dems exercise their control over the next two years.  If Congress starts hitting the progressive wish list, e.g. packing the SCOTUS, DC and Puerto Rico statehood, UBI, Universal Health Care with no private option, etc. then you'll see those people return to voting GOP for the same reason you correctly pointed out they did before, because they aren't the Democrats.

I don't except the Dems to do a lot, but I do agree with your point. Court packing and gun grabs I don't think will be on the table. Given trump's disregard and just plain ignorance of things in puerto rico, I could see that gain some traction. 

Healthcare? Man who knows. That's such a complicated issue with a lot of folks getting paid to keep the industry broken. Toss in a lack of understanding by a lot of voters (and elected officials) and it gets worse.

[fredtoast]

Dems will not be as desperate to pack the Supreme Court (which I and a lot of other Dems think is a bad idea) now that they control the Senate.

[GMDino]

(01-07-2021, 09:21 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't except the Dems to do a lot, but I do agree with your point. Court packing and gun grabs I don't think will be on the table. Given trump's disregard and just plain ignorance of things in puerto rico, I could see that gain some traction. 

Healthcare? Man who knows. That's such a complicated issue with a lot of folks getting paid to keep the industry broken. Toss in a lack of understanding by a lot of voters (and elected officials) and it gets worse.

Honest question:  When were "gun grabs" on the table?  Seriously.  The Brady Bill?  Has there been a large, liberal lead attempt since then?

They will probably try to reinstate and fix parts of Obamacare too.  That's popular.

And another round of Covid Relief will come.  That's popular.

The rest is that esoteric stuff like The Paris Accord and Operation Open Skies and big things that people will argue about without even knowing what is going on.  Maybe even the Iran deal.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-08-2021, 10:16 AM)GMDino Wrote: Honest question:  When were "gun grabs" on the table?  Seriously.  The Brady Bill?  Has there been a large, liberal lead attempt since then?

I registered to vote as an Independent in the Fall of 1985. Almost all of the Republicans that I encountered tried to sell me "the Democrats are trying to take away all of our guns".

35 years, and until the NRA recently got caught taking Russian money, every previous election was swamped with NRA sponsored Republican ads talking about Democrats taking away their guns. The only thing close to a gun ad that I remember seeing this last election was the ridiculously stupid ad about an old lady trying to call 911 but there is no police because they were defunded.

[fredtoast]

Kind of strange how immigration reform went from the #1 issue (for Trump) 4 years ago to an afterthought in this election.

That still needs to be addressed.

[Au165]

(01-08-2021, 12:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Kind of strange how immigration reform went from the #1 issue (for Trump) 4 years ago to an afterthought in this election.

That still needs to be addressed.

Maybe they wanted to avoid bringing up the failure that was "build the wall, and they will pay for it"?

[GMDino]

(01-08-2021, 12:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Kind of strange how immigration reform went from the #1 issue (for Trump) 4 years ago to an afterthought in this election.

That still needs to be addressed.

I did read that DJT brought up "new caravans forming" at either the Georgia or DC rally.

Like watching a rerun of a bad television show.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-08-2021, 10:44 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I registered to vote as an Independent in the Fall of 1985. Almost all of the Republicans that I encountered tried to sell me "the Democrats are trying to take away all of our guns".

35 years, and until the NRA recently got caught taking Russian money, every previous election was swamped with NRA sponsored Republican ads talking about Democrats taking away their guns. The only thing close to a gun ad that I remember seeing this last election was the ridiculously stupid ad about an old lady trying to call 911 but there is no police because they were defunded.

You don't live in California, where gun grabs have been in effect for years.  So, yeah, the Dems are trying to take your guns.  It doesn't happen all at once, it's a gradual process and we haven't even reached the endgame here.  But one need look no further than CA to see what they want for other parts of the nation, we're just further along the process than anywhere else.

[Belsnickel]

(01-08-2021, 08:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You don't live in California, where gun grabs have been in effect for years.  So, yeah, the Dems are trying to take your guns.  It doesn't happen all at once, it's a gradual process and we haven't even reached the endgame here.  But one need look no further than CA to see what they want for other parts of the nation, we're just further along the process than anywhere else.

This is why you need to vote in the leftists. Once you get past the neo-liberal Democrats and move on to actual leftists, you get your guns back.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-08-2021, 08:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is why you need to vote in the leftists. Once you get past the neo-liberal Democrats and move on to actual leftists, you get your guns back.

Dude, in CA you get one choice; woke, far left, pandering, "progressives".  I don't disagree with your point though, I was probably exactly what you're describing for most of my life.  The past few years have definitely soured me on it.  It would absolutely be nice to see a party dedicated to personal freedom instead of varying forms of the government knowing what is best for you.