Free crack pipes

[basballguy]

(02-09-2022, 03:32 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm not dying on any hill, really. I personally don't think this program is a big deal. I think it has the potential to help some people and I am not convinced it would influence anyone who doesn't already want to do crack from doing crack.

You were the one comparing it to vaccines.

i'm comparing policies....not crack to a vaccine.    

Instead of making it "safer" to do crack they should focus more on reducing the numbers of people who do crack....getting people the help they need.  This policy (hence the post of this thread) gives off the impression "we don't care what you do with your body so you might as well do it safely".

Changing the conversation a little....

Where this rubs me the wrong way is we're spending tax dollars focused on a demographic that likely isn't capable of doing anything to better their situation.  How does clean crack pipes set these people up for success?  This money should either be spent in a way that helps these people get out of their situation or diverted to people/programs that really need it.  

It's an example of poor government spending.  

[HarleyDog]

(02-09-2022, 03:34 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So are you conceding that it isn't offensive that this is referenced as a form of racial justice? Or are you just changing the subject unintentionally?

Pointing out the similarities between your post and handing out free (ILLEGAL) drug paraphernalia. 

[CKwi88]

Whatever happened to all lives matter?

[basballguy]

(02-09-2022, 03:49 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Whatever happened to all lives matter?

What does this have to do with anything?  Seems like all you're trying to do is stir the pot and add no real substance to the conversation.  

[CJD]

(02-09-2022, 03:46 PM)basballguy Wrote: i'm comparing policies....not crack to a vaccine.    

Instead of making it "safer" to do crack they should focus more on reducing the numbers of people who do crack....getting people the help they need.  This policy (hence the post of this thread) gives off the impression "we don't care what you do with your body so you might as well do it safely".

Changing the conversation a little....

Where this rubs me the wrong way is we're spending tax dollars focused on a demographic that likely isn't capable of doing anything to better their situation.  How does clean crack pipes set these people up for success?  This money should either be spent in a way that helps these people get out of their situation or diverted to people/programs that really need it.  

It's an example of poor government spending.  

I agree. I don't think this program is going to end up being all that impactful.

[CJD]

(02-09-2022, 03:47 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Pointing out the similarities between your post and handing out free (ILLEGAL) drug paraphernalia. 

Okay, so you changed the subject intentionally.

[HarleyDog]

(02-09-2022, 04:11 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Okay, so you changed the subject intentionally.

No, I didn't but see it how you wish. 

[GMDino]

Did anyone look at what the kits involve?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-crack-pipes-racial-equity/

And I know many of you hate Snopes because it is "left leaning" but they have the links to back up this case.

The pipes are one, small, component of the overall program.

I'd encourage you to read about the entire program rather than clutching pearls about one part that may or may not help enough for your liking.

Quote:What Does the Biden Administration’s Harm Reduction Document Actually Say?


The document alluded to in the news reports was a Notice of Funding Opportunity (NOFO) for the 2022 Harm Reduction Program Grant, issued by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, which is part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). The document can be read in full here.

In order to place the safer smoking kit component of the grant in its proper context, and demonstrate that it was just one of 20 requirements set out in the NOFO, the following is the relevant section of the 75-page document, in full, with numbered requirements, abridged for the sake of brevity:

Quote:Grant funds must be used primarily to support the following required harm reduction activities:

1. Assess organizational readiness and create a strategic action plan…
2. Develop a sustainability plan…
3. Develop policies and procedures to implement evidence-based trauma-informed practices…
4. Distribute FDA-approved overdose reversal medication and deliver overdose prevention education to target populations…
5. Establish processes, protocols, mechanisms for referral to treatment and recovery support services…
6. Assemble a harm reduction advisory council…
7. Designate staff…to provide program design, implementation, and evaluation…
8. Purchase equipment and supplies to enhance harm reduction efforts, such as:
   
   1. Harm reduction vending machine(s)…
   2. Infectious diseases testing kits…
   3. Medication lock boxes
   4. FDA-approved overdose reversal medication
   5. Safe sex kits, including PrEP resources and condoms
   6. Safe smoking kits/supplies
   7. Screening for infectious diseases (HIV, sexually transmitted infections, viral hepatitis)
   8. Sharps disposal and medication disposal kits
   9. Substance test kits, including test strips for fentanyl and other synthetic drugs
   10. Syringes to prevent and control the spread of infectious diseases
   11. Vaccination services (hepatitis A, hepatitis B vaccination)
   12. Wound care management supplies [Emphasis is added].
       

t’s important to note that safe smoking kits typically consist of several other items, including: a rubber mouthpieces for glass pipes, in order to prevent burns and cuts; brass screens, in order to filter out potentially harmful contaminants or debris; as well as disinfectant wipes. As such, they are a logical component of a broader substance abuse strategy of harm reduction. 


While the reporting around this document focused almost exclusively on “crack pipes,” it could just as easily have focused on the infectious disease testing, naloxone provision, or even sterilized syringe distribution required of grant recipients. Disapproving news articles zeroed in on the safe smoking kits not because of the prominence given to them in the grant description itself, but simply because it allowed them to include “crack pipes” in their headlines.

[CJD]

(02-09-2022, 04:15 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: No, I didn't but see it how you wish. 

The subject that I quoted was that you believed it was offensive that the administration is treating this as a racial equity/justice program because that implies that black people use crack more than other races.

I responded that it wasn't an implication, it's just our country's history.

And then you changed the subject to "But it's illegal though."

I was simply pointing out that black people were targeted by crack in the war on drugs and so addressing the effects of crack is, no question, a form of racial justice.

I wasn't arguing whether it is just, legal, right or even a good idea to give people crack pipes. Just giving you the context of why it is considered a racial justice program.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-09-2022, 04:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did anyone look at what the kits involve?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-crack-pipes-racial-equity/

And I know many of you hate Snopes because it is "left leaning" but they have the links to back up this case.

The pipes are one, small, component of the overall program.

I'd encourage you to read about the entire program rather than clutching pearls about one part that may or may not help enough for your liking.

We know it was just one component of the package, that's in the OP.  Some people are wondering why crack pipes are included.  The "safety features" of the distributed crack pipes don't look like something worth spending money on to me.  I'll reiterate, handing out needles to IV drug users makes perfect sense, it demonstrably helps stop the spread of blood borne diseases.  Adding a rubber end so you don't burn your lips or a brass screen so you don't get a small piece of rock in your mouth does not appear to grant the same benefits and definitely not the same level of efficacy.  Having an issue with this is certainly not a knee jerk Biden bash.

[Millhouse]

(02-09-2022, 03:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Handing out needles to IV drug users makes sense as it absolutely helps prevent the spread of blood borne diseases.  Handing out crack pipes?  I'm not sure what the public health benefit of that could be.  A crack pipe is literally just a glass tube.  Sharing one is no more likely to spread disease than sharing a cigarette or a drink with someone.  Granted, I wouldn't be eager to do either with a crack addict, but I have a feeling they aren't as picky as I am.

To me, I don't understand how this can be part of that package put together. One would think someone would have thought of just how idiotic this is to do. It's a bit mindboggling actually, because headlines of 'Free crack pipes' is a pr nightmare, while not making a difference at all in public health.

(02-09-2022, 03:17 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Why is this any different? possession of a crack pipe is against the law. Therefore, the government is handling out illegal drug paraphernalia that will land some people behind bars.

I have to assume it's like being able to legally sell and carry around marijuana pipes, just as long as they aren't used with an illegal substance. I heard this from a friend.   

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-09-2022, 05:26 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The subject that I quoted was that you believed it was offensive that the administration is treating this as a racial equity/justice program because that implies that black people use crack more than other races.

I responded that it wasn't an implication, it's just our country's history.

And then you changed the subject to "But it's illegal though."

I was simply pointing out that black people were targeted by crack in the war on drugs and so addressing the effects of crack is, no question, a form of racial justice.

I wasn't arguing whether it is just, right or even a good idea to give people crack pipes. Just giving you the context of why it is considered a racial justice program.

It has less to do with the fact that black people used crack more frequently than others, per capita, and more to do with the sentencing disparities between possession and use of powdered versus rock cocaine back then.  In this regard there is really no argument, the disparity was real and it was significant.  Of course, that's no longer the case so I don't think you can make a racial justice issue out of current day crack use.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-09-2022, 05:28 PM)Millhouse Wrote: To me, I don't understand how this can be part of that package put together. One would think someone would have thought of just how idiotic this is to do. It's a bit mindboggling actually, because headlines of 'Free crack pipes' is a pr nightmare, while not making a difference at all in public health.

Because a lot of people in government, in both parties, are incredibly stupid.  I deal with it every day here, politicians make moves that earn them votes, the actual benefits of these moves are a tertiary concern, if they're even a concern at all.

Quote:I have to assume it's like being able to legally sell and carry around marijuana pipes, just as long as they aren't used with an illegal substance. I heard this from a friend.   

You really can't effectively smoke crack out of a weed pipe.  No one would smoke meth out of it either as it would "waste" a lot of the meth that a meth pipe (they have a glass bulb at the lighter end) traps so you can smoke it again later.

[Millhouse]

(02-09-2022, 05:32 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You really can't effectively smoke crack out of a weed pipe.  No one would smoke meth out of it either as it would "waste" a lot of the meth that a meth pipe (they have a glass bulb at the lighter end) traps so you can smoke it again later.

No what I am saying is that it is probably similar. As long as the 'crack pipe' hasn't been used with any illegal substance including crack, it can be sold or given away. Maybe some states or federal laws have changed on this, but it used to be that way.

[NATI BENGALS]

I’m really not worried about this. And I highly doubt it was Biden banging the table insisting crack pipes be included in the kits.

But this is just more ammo for the conservative main stream media machine to scare and control their base. I’ve seen this headline on countless news sources today. We have bigger fish to fry than coddling crack heads. Yet here we are and this is the narrative.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-09-2022, 05:36 PM)Millhouse Wrote: No what I am saying is that it is probably similar. As long as the 'crack pipe' hasn't been used with any illegal substance including crack, it can be sold or given away. Maybe some states or federal laws have changed on this, but it used to be that way.

I see.  Yes, paraphernalia laws have changed significantly in most areas over the past several years.

(02-09-2022, 05:38 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’m really not worried about this. And I highly doubt it was Biden banging the table insisting crack pipes be included in the kits.

But this is just more ammo for the conservative main stream media machine to scare and control their base. I’ve seen this headline on countless news sources today. We have bigger fish to fry than coddling crack heads. Yet here we are and this is the narrative.

I don't know that anyone is worrying about it, it's a topic for discussion like any other.  There are certainly far better things to spend our money on, but that could be said about many things.  As to your overall point about more important things, I am very surprised there's no thread on the trucker protests in Canada and possibly spreading here.

[HarleyDog]

(02-09-2022, 05:28 PM)Millhouse Wrote: To me, I don't understand how this can be part of that package put together. One would think someone would have thought of just how idiotic this is to do. It's a bit mindboggling actually, because headlines of 'Free crack pipes' is a pr nightmare, while not making a difference at all in public health.


I have to assume it's like being able to legally sell and carry around marijuana pipes, just as long as they aren't used with an illegal substance. I heard this from a friend.   

I went to Hamilton County Sheriffs jail roster today because I seen a video of a few so-called Bengals fans at the rally being idiots and throwing stuff at workers at one of the food stations inside the stadium, and was kind of hoping I would see them there for being morons. As I was clicking on names, there were a ton of arrests in there over drug paraphernalia. At first I thought, Damn, that's an arrestable offense? I mean, I could see confiscating whatever but an actual arrest seems over the top. It was coincidental I read this article about an hour later and the topic came up in discussion.

[HarleyDog]

And it begins:

[BmorePat87]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/593566-white-house-disputes-reports-of-federal-funds-for-crack-pipes

Apparently the grant isn't paying for pipes, though that may be the administration reacting to clickbait driven opposition and a statement from the Drug Policy Alliance on this commented on the fact that safe smoke kits are often used to encourage inhalation over injection, something that is safer (though of course not safe) and would arguably lead to lower costs for our government, hence the benefit of a kit that could include a pipe.

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-09-2022, 07:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I am very surprised there's no thread on the trucker protests in Canada and possibly spreading here.

Give it time. Yet another double dose of Biden crisis. The Canadian trucker protest crack pipe giveaway extravaganza.

I just flipped on Fox News for the first time in a few weeks and it was Hannity with what appeared to be a cheerleader/reporter on location with the truckers (“we support you”). R