Free trade run amuck......

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?partner=msft_msn&_r=0&referrer=


What say you?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Anyone out there still think they ain't stackin' the deck against the American worker after reading that?

[Benton]

Goes back to the immigration issue. Businesses prefer it this way, they get cheap labor. Its shifts the burden small business owners and the self employed more every day.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-03-2015, 07:59 PM)Benton Wrote: Goes back to the immigration issue. Businesses prefer it this way, they get cheap labor. Its shifts the burden small business owners and the self employed more every day.

It sure does.  Anyone who thinks free trade or lax immigration is benefiting anyone besides the campaign war chest stuffers is naive at best.  Benevolence is most certainly not the driving force here......

[Devils Advocate]

This is more on par as to why I don't watch ESPN ... plus they suck balls.

[Devils Advocate]

(06-03-2015, 07:59 PM)Benton Wrote: Goes back to the immigration issue. Businesses prefer it this way, they get cheap labor. Its shifts the burden small business owners and the self employed more every day.

But these workers aren't suppose to be cheap labor. Their purpose of employment is suppose to be because the company couldn't find Americans to do the job. Obviously Americans were available because they trained the foreign workers. Part of the deal to bring in this type of 'specialized' worker is offering competitive and comparitive pay. They're not cheap by any means.  

Begging the question[s] how does Disney and others get away with it? Why do they think they can? How have they to this point?

[*bfine32*]

These STEM visa are a sham. Plenty of qualified works born right here in the USA to fill these jobs.

[Benton]

(06-03-2015, 10:09 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: But these workers aren't suppose to be cheap labor. Their purpose of employment is suppose to be because the company couldn't find Americans to do the job. Obviously Americans were available because they trained the foreign workers. Part of the deal to bring in this type of 'specialized' worker is offering competitive and comparitive pay. They're not cheap by any means.  

Begging the question[s] how does Disney and others get away with it? Why do they think they can? How have they to this point?

And therein lies the problem that goes back to immigration. The idea was to allow for highly technical jobs where there isn't much competition, just a lot of need. Programmers at a theme park don't really fit that bill, but companies like Disney can bring them in for much cheaper than they were paying home grown workers. Since we don't fund regulation (cause regulation is all bad), we don't stop companies like Disney from abusing the system. 

I'll say it again and again, if we fund existing laws and have people watching safeguards, things like this won't happen. If we just jump up and down and say "Close the borders! Ship 'em out!" then we're not ever going to fix the problem. You can not solve a problem by ignoring it. It's only going to get worse the longer people think the only answer is hoping no one is smart enough to walk around a fence, or answer an international job placement ad by a multi-national company like Disney.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-03-2015, 07:59 PM)Benton Wrote: Goes back to the immigration issue. Businesses prefer it this way, they get cheap labor. Its shifts the burden small business owners and the self employed more every day.

Sorry I disagree with your assertion here... These are highly educated immigrants which we say we want.... I would rather have this than indicated criminals rolling up from mexico and central America. 

I also will say that we can't let these guys plus the Mess at the southern border to come in....   We need to seal off the souther border then maybe cut these guys some.  

I prefer highly educated over the Mexicans and Central Amercians.... Plus Indians don't seem to wanna blow anything up or jump on benefits.   

[Benton]

(06-04-2015, 05:07 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sorry I disagree with your assertion here... These are highly educated immigrants which we say we want.... I would rather have this than indicated criminals rolling up from mexico and central America. 

I also will say that we can't let these guys plus the Mess at the southern border to come in....   We need to seal off the souther border then maybe cut these guys some.  

I prefer highly educated over the Mexicans and Central Amercians.... Plus Indians don't seem to wanna blow anything up or jump on benefits.   

who is saying we want immigrants? We don't need any. We shouldn't want any as we've already got a job shortage.

being accepting and actively encouraging are two different things. An open border accepts, businesses replacing workers with cheaper foreign workers is encouraging the system. That's not an assertion.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-03-2015, 10:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These STEM visa are a sham. Plenty of qualified works born right here in the USA to fill these jobs.

Excellent point b......and another point to consider:  how are we encouraging our own students to go after STEM degrees, when they will ultimately just be used as instructors for cheap labor and cast aside?  We're not exactly selling the investment in one's self here.......

[GMDino]

(06-04-2015, 05:07 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sorry I disagree with your assertion here... These are highly educated immigrants which we say we want.... I would rather have this than indicated criminals rolling up from mexico and central America. 

I also will say that we can't let these guys plus the Mess at the southern border to come in....   We need to seal off the souther border then maybe cut these guys some.  

I prefer highly educated over the Mexicans and Central Amercians.... Plus Indians don't seem to wanna blow anything up or jump on benefits.   

[GMDino]

(06-03-2015, 10:09 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: But these workers aren't suppose to be cheap labor. Their purpose of employment is suppose to be because the company couldn't find Americans to do the job. Obviously Americans were available because they trained the foreign workers. Part of the deal to bring in this type of 'specialized' worker is offering competitive and comparitive pay. They're not cheap by any means.  

Begging the question[s] how does Disney and others get away with it? Why do they think they can? How have they to this point?

"Right to work" and the anti-union movement.

These aren't "burger flippers".  These people worked and got where they were and were doing a good job.  So they don't fit the lazy bum stereotype the right tries to force on us when talking about American jobs.

Its all about the almighty dollar.  Period.

Disney is saving some bucks...who cares what happens to the ex-employees.  Its the new American Dream.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-04-2015, 05:07 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sorry I disagree with your assertion here... These are highly educated immigrants which we say we want.... I would rather have this than indicated criminals rolling up from mexico and central America. 

I also will say that we can't let these guys plus the Mess at the southern border to come in....   We need to seal off the souther border then maybe cut these guys some.  

I prefer highly educated over the Mexicans and Central Amercians.... Plus Indians don't seem to wanna blow anything up or jump on benefits.   

But we need someone to come in and work the jobs that the lazy, entitled, white Americans won't work.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-04-2015, 09:13 AM)GMDino Wrote:

.....not to mention these AMERICAN workers are supplying the education via on the job training.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-04-2015, 09:24 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: But we need someone to come in and work the jobs that the lazy, entitled, white Americans won't work.

Yep.....this shit right here kinda dispels that myth and reinforces what I have always said......it ain't ALWAYS about lazy, it's more often about the pay.....

[Belsnickel]

(06-04-2015, 08:06 AM)Wyche Wrote: Excellent point b......and another point to consider:  how are we encouraging our own students to go after STEM degrees, when they will ultimately just be used as instructors for cheap labor and cast aside?  We're not exactly selling the investment in one's self here.......

This has always been a thing for me. We are putting so much into encouraging STEM students, but we aren't giving them the jobs. Our education industry needs to collaborate more with the private industry out there and make things happen. But the priorities in the private industry is profit and not the benefit of the country. Which is interesting considering a corporation originally meant for the common good.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-04-2015, 09:31 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This has always been a thing for me. We are putting so much into encouraging STEM students, but we aren't giving them the jobs. Our education industry needs to collaborate more with the private industry out there and make things happen. But the priorities in the private industry is profit and not the benefit of the country. Which is interesting considering a corporation originally meant for the common good.

Precisely.......

[*michaelsean*]

(06-04-2015, 06:19 AM)Benton Wrote: who is saying we want immigrants? We don't need any. We shouldn't want any as we've already got a job shortage.

being accepting and actively encouraging are two different things. An open border accepts, businesses replacing workers with cheaper foreign workers is encouraging the system. That's not an assertion.

I always want immigrants.  The numbers we want   may change depending on the times, but immigrants always remind us of what we really have here.  

As for Disney, this just seems stupid.  250 jobs?  How much can they possibly be saving?  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-04-2015, 09:49 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I always want immigrants.  The numbers we want   may change depending on the times, but immigrants always remind us of what we really have here.  

As for Disney, this just seems stupid.  250 jobs?  How much can they possibly be saving?  

This is just one company, Microsoft, Edison Power, on and on......this is becoming a rapidly growing problem, and will likely only be exacerbated by laws like the TPP.  We are led to believe that the immigration problem is a result of "lazy Americans not wanting to work".  While that is *sometimes* the case, more often than not, it isn't.  It's more about getting paid to survive our cost of living here.....in this case, we have educated and skilled (some highly educated, skilled, and experienced) workers being shown the door because they're not here on visas, and need more compensation to live what we were told was "the American dream".  

This will lead to even more on the welfare teat.....think about it.....why would young people go into debt with student loans only to have their jobs "insourced" with cheaper replacements that they will have to train?  Where's the incentive to "better yourself"?  This thing could get ugly....