Gay marriage ruling about to come down

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-27-2015, 01:21 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The protected classes are becoming a larger group than the normal people.  

It's about time we stripped away all protections and let people be free and live their lives.

It must really suck being a member of the majority, or one of the so called "normal" people, and being forced by The Man to treat minorities with liberty and justice for all.  You're so oppressed.  Cry me a river!

[Bengalzona]

[Bengalzona]

[Bengalzona]

(06-27-2015, 01:21 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The protected classes are becoming a larger group than the normal people.  

It's about time we stripped away all protections and let people be free and live their lives.

[*bfine32*]

(06-27-2015, 11:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Are you kidding.

Dignity means being worthy of respect.

How the hell can you tell a person held in slavery that he has dignity when he is being treated like an animal?  Those are generally the words of white apologists.  "Yeah, we may have treated them like animals, but they still had there dignity.  It wasn't that bad."

Plus this case isn't about dignity.  It is about equal protection under the law.

Except they weren't from a "White apologist"; they were from a black man who is a direct descendant from slaves that grew up impoverished in the heart of the South. However, you most likely have a better grasp on whether or not slaves could maintain their dignity while being enslaved. 

Dignity also means "a sense of pride in oneself; self-respect." This is most likely why Thomas said "their dignity" instead of "treated with dignity". Growing up poor and black in the rural South during the 50's and 60's Thomas was probably treated with less dignity and suffered more prejudice and hate that most can only imagine. I am certain he knows what it is like to have to maintain your dignity while being oppressed.

The man has served in positions that promote equal rights and has fought for reform. I have absolutely no idea why anyone would refer to him as "someone just trying to please the white man. or as you say "a white apologist. He came from less and achieved more than 99.9% of the population. 

The man came from less and achieved more than 99.9% of the population

[*bfine32*]

(06-27-2015, 07:31 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: They didn't dislike the fact he dissented, they disliked the segment I posted from his dissent. The part about blacks not losing dignity because of slavery and all that jazz. 

Well you never really stated why and I wasn't the only one trying to draw a conclusion from your stating your Black friends called him an Uncle Tom.

[fredtoast]

(06-27-2015, 12:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Except they weren't from a "White apologist"; they were from a black man who is a direct descendant from slaves that grew up impoverished in the heart of the South. However, you most likely have a better grasp on whether or not slaves could maintain their dignity while being enslaved. 

Dignity also means "a sense of pride in oneself; self-respect." This is most likely why Thomas said "their dignity" instead of "treated with dignity". Growing up poor and black in the rural South during the 50's and 60's Thomas was probably treated with less dignity and suffered more prejudice and hate that most can only imagine. I am certain he knows what it is like to have to maintain your dignity while being oppressed.

The man has served in positions that promote equal rights and has fought for reform. I have absolutely no idea why anyone would refer to him as "someone just trying to please the white man. or as you say "a white apologist. He came from less and achieved more than 99.9% of the population. 

The man came from less and achieved more than 99.9% of the population

I am not going to dispute that Thomas is intelligent and worked very hard throughout his life.  But that fact is that when his family was trapped in abject poverty he was saved by the fact that he had a well to do family member to take him in.  

So it rings kind of hollow when a person says "Anyone can overcome hardship.  All you have to do is move in with your well-to-do family member."

[*bfine32*]

(06-27-2015, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not going to dispute that Thomas is intelligent and worked very hard throughout his life.  But that fact is that when his family was trapped in abject poverty he was saved by the fact that he had a well to do family member to take him in.  

So it rings kind of hollow when a person says "Anyone can overcome hardship.  All you have to do is move in with your well-to-do family member."

If by "well to do" your mean a black man who worked from sun up to sun down to earn a living by running his own business in the racist South with limited education; then yes. I am sure it was easy for Thomas to maintain his dignity being the only black kid at is High School in the 60's in the heart of the South. 

What does this have to do with him being a "white apologist" or an  "Uncle Tom"?

[fredtoast]

(06-27-2015, 12:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If by "well to do" your mean a black man who worked from sun up to sun down to earn a living by running his own business in the racist South with limited education; then yes. I am sure it was easy for Thomas to maintain his dignity being the only black kid at is High School in the 60's in the heart of the South. 

What does this have to do with him being a "white apologist" or an  "Uncle Tom"?

I have Not sure why you don't already explained it.

People think Thomas benefited from affirmative action yet he now is opposed to affirmative action.

People also think Thomas is a little to quick to claim "anyone" can overcome hardship when he was lucky enough to have a relative who was well to do that took him in.

His claims that "slavery was not that bad because they still had their dignity" is also straight out of the white apologist book of rhetoric.

I am not saying I agree with all of this, but I have explained pretty clearly why some people make these claims.  
Sorry if you don't understand.  I can't explain it in any simpler terms.

[*bfine32*]

(06-27-2015, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have Not sure why you don't already explained it.

People think Thomas benefited from affirmative action yet he now is opposed to affirmative action.

People also think Thomas is a little to quick to claim "anyone" can overcome hardship when he was lucky enough to have a relative who was well to do that took him in.

His claims that "slavery was not that bad because they still had their dignity" is also straight out of the white apologist book of rhetoric.

I am not saying I agree with all of this, but I have explained pretty clearly why some people make these claims.  
Sorry if you don't understand.  I can't explain it in any simpler terms.

He is most likely pointing to the relative (his grandfather) when is is talking about "anyone". Yes he did go live with him after the house of his abandoned mother burned down when he was 7.

I did not see anywhere that Thomas claimed slavery "wasn't that bad". Please provide me with that link as it would be something. To me his words simply mean no one can give you your dignity; it is something that comes from within. Did someone give you, your dignity? (Do not confuse with treated with).

Sure there are folks that consider him an Uncle Tom. Matt's friends and you come to mind (previous post calling his words those of a white apologist before you ask), it's just that, unlike Matt, I choose to challenge folks that view Thomas in that light. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(06-26-2015, 11:27 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Lots to do. Many saw marriage as the easiest fight to win to get the wheels moving. A very good comparison would be to the civil rights movement. The NAACP knew they could challenge segregation in schools at the local and state level and eventually get it to the Supreme Court. They did this years before substantial civil rights legislation was passed.

Now you need federal anti-discrimination laws.

There's also a lot to be done to help the trans community.

More federal laws? Nah...I'll pass.

[Belsnickel]

(06-27-2015, 09:58 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Really??? That's a pretty ignorant statement to make with no fact.

(06-27-2015, 10:10 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I believe he is talking about his friends.

That.

[Bmoreblitz]

[Belsnickel]

(06-27-2015, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well you never really stated why and I wasn't the only one trying to draw a conclusion from your stating your Black friends called him an Uncle Tom.

I thought it was obvious given that I quoted a part of his dissent and then commented on the feelings of people I knew about those statements. My bad.

[*bfine32*]

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3664143&page=1

"People feel free to say about me what they think about lots of blacks," Thomas said in an interview in his chambers at the Supreme Court. "Because of the heterodox views I've taken, they have license to say it about me with impunity."

"I'd grown up fearing the lynch mobs of the Ku Klux Klan; as an adult I was starting to wonder if I'd been afraid of the wrong white people all along — where I was being pursued not by bigots in white robes, but by left-wing zealots draped in flowing sanctimony,"

[fredtoast]

(06-27-2015, 01:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I did not see anywhere that Thomas claimed slavery "wasn't that bad". Please provide me with that link as it would be something. To me his words simply mean no one can give you your dignity; it is something that comes from within. Did someone give you, your dignity? (Do not confuse with treated with).

Here is what Thomas did in the quote belsnickle posted.

He tried to base his comments about "dignity" in he authority of the founding fathers when in fact there was no mention of "dignity" by the founding fathers.  Actually the founding father listed the inherent "Rights" as "life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".  The fact that the founding fathers could endorse slavery at the same time they claimed that all men are endowed by god with the right to "liberty" is recognized as a joke by everyone today except the most extreme of the white apologists.

How can you not see how ridiculous his claims were?  Who would argue that living in slavery is "dignified" and a life of "liberty".  It is a joke.

God did not give the slaves "liberty" the federal government did.

[WhoDeyWho]

(06-27-2015, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not going to dispute that Thomas is intelligent and worked very hard throughout his life.  But that fact is that when his family was trapped in abject poverty he was saved by the fact that he had a well to do family member to take him in.  

So it rings kind of hollow when a person says "Anyone can overcome hardship.  All you have to do is move in with your well-to-do family member."

There is ample proof that "most" anyone who sincerely wants to overcome hardship in this country can.  That's what is so great about America:  plenty of dirt poor people have become success stories.

Even his story is admirable, given that he grew up in the racist south.  Do you really think Clarence Thomas would have ended up working at McDonalds if he didn't receive help from a family member?  Did his uncle also help him with his course work at an Ivy League school?  

The left loves to make "Uncle Toms" of any black person that strays from the black monolithic group think that says we are all victims of the white establishment.  I find it patronizing and racists in and of itself:  whites are free to have varying opinions but the first black to say something contrary gets labeled a "race traitor".  Although, I completely disagree with his opinion on this issue, I don't think it makes him a "Tom" for saying it.   

[fredtoast]

(06-27-2015, 02:03 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: There is ample proof that "most" anyone who sincerely want to overcome hardship in this country can.  That's what is so great about America:  plenty of dirt poor people have become success stories.

Even his story is admirable, given that he grew up in the racist south.  Do you really think Clarence Thomas would have ended up working at McDonalds if he didn't receive help from a family member?  Did his uncle also help him with his course work at an Ivy League school?  

The left loves to make "Uncle Toms" of any black person that strays from the black monolithic group think that says we are all victims of the white establishment.  I find it patronizing and racists in and of itself:  whites are free to have varying opinions but the first black to say something contrary gets labeled a "race traitor".  Although, I completely disagree with his opinion on this issue, I don't think it makes him a "Tom" for saying it.   

Thomas may very well have been forced to drop out of school and work to support the family if he had not been taken in by a well-to-do relative.  Or he may have been forced to attend a "black" high school that did not have the resources to allow him to take full advantage of his academic abilities.

I am not saying Thomas didn't work hard.  But the fact is that he had advantages that many others in his position did not posses.  He was given a place to live and got the chance to attend a white high school.

A man with his brains and work ethic probably would not have ended up in poverty, but there is a good chance he would not have gone to Yale and become a Supreme Court Justice.

[*bfine32*]

(06-27-2015, 02:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is what Thomas did in the quote belsnickle posted.

He tried to base his comments about "dignity" in he authority of the founding fathers when in fact there was no mention of "dignity" by the founding fathers.  Actually the founding father listed the inherent "Rights" as "life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".  The fact that the founding fathers could endorse slavery at the same time they claimed that all men are endowed by god with the right to "liberty" is recognized as a joke by everyone today except the most extreme of the white apologists.

How can you not see how ridiculous his claims were?  Who would argue that living in slavery is "dignified" and a life of "liberty".  It is a joke.

God did not give the slaves "liberty" the federal government did.

Still waiting on the link where Thomas said "slavery wasn't that bad".

I guess we will just leave it as you cannot understand the difference between being treated with dignity and having dignity in yourself (you claim you have to be given it).  Thomas used dignity as that was the central focus of the love story that was written in the majority view. Thomas acually explained the difference between dignity and liberty as he assumed some would try to draw the feeble coralation. 

Nowhere did he state slaves did not lose their liberty. He stated they did not lose their dignity or humanity. Pretty sure, contrary to the opinion of some around here, Thomas is not in favor of Slavery.

You also never told me who gave you your dignity or why you consider Thomas a White Apologist?

[*bfine32*]

(06-27-2015, 02:03 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: There is ample proof that "most" anyone who sincerely wants to overcome hardship in this country can.  That's what is so great about America:  plenty of dirt poor people have become success stories.

Even his story is admirable, given that he grew up in the racist south.  Do you really think Clarence Thomas would have ended up working at McDonalds if he didn't receive help from a family member?  Did his uncle also help him with his course work at an Ivy League school?  

The left loves to make "Uncle Toms" of any black person that strays from the black monolithic group think that says we are all victims of the white establishment.  I find it patronizing and racists in and of itself:  whites are free to have varying opinions but the first black to say something contrary gets labeled a "race traitor".  Although, I completely disagree with his opinion on this issue, I don't think it makes him a "Tom" for saying it.   

Yet some will assert that Thomas had a "leg up" because his Grandfather ran a gas station in the Jim Crow South and because of his success this somehow makes him an Uncle Tom