Gender Affirmation Surgery

[Mickeypoo]

(08-08-2023, 01:02 PM)basballguy Wrote: Chase did (or is doing) something similar.  I thought AT&T was on the verge of that last year.  It honestly wouldn't surprise me if more companies aren't at least considering this.  

My initial thoughts on this, based on what I've seen at AT&T (corporate), it's less of them trying to force it and more of a "**** it, just do it so we can stop having HR complaints"  The bad publicity just isn't worth it to these companies.  Especially when it comes to recruiting new/younger talent.  

This is also an opinion/speculation as I've never been important enough to be in the loop on decisions like that.  

I have a suggestion for these companies.  Let people choose to sound woke and virtuous if they want and leave the other 99% of us the eff alone.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-08-2023, 01:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, here is my issue, though. I make a delineation between cultural efforts like what you describe and putting it on the political agenda. The Democrats are not, at least not nationally or in my neck of the woods, using those issues to drive their people to the polls. That is the difference and what I was highlighting in my statement.

An interesting distinction, although I cannot completely agree.  I absolutely believe that the Dems use this as an issue to drive people to the polls, just not with the same fervor as the GOP.  A similar dynamic is taking place on abortion rights.  Both parties use it to gin up the base, but the Dems push it far more.  In both instances the party pushing it the most sees it as a more of a winning issue than the other party does.  Actually, you could make the same argument with gun rights as well, in that instance the GOP uses it to march people to the polls far more than the Dems do.  I'm sure if we put our minds to it we could identify a slew of issues that both parties manipulate, one to a lesser extent than the other.

[StoneTheCrow]

(08-08-2023, 12:44 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Seriously, my place of employment was a smidge away from mandating pronouns in our email sigs.  10's of thousands of employees.  I'm guessing there may have been some possible legal issues they didn't want to deal with and backed off at the eleventh hour.

If you guys could see some of the mandatory "training" we have to endure you would be amazed.

I think we work at the same place


Signed,

STC

(your/best guess)

[Mickeypoo]

(08-08-2023, 01:52 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: I think we work at the same place


Signed,  

STC

(your/best guess)

lmao!!!!

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2023, 01:36 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I have a suggestion for these companies.  Let people choose to sound woke and virtuous if they want and leave the other 99% of us the eff alone.

If a company wants you to be woke you either get woke or you get a different job.  That's the way it is.  Giving corporations power over people doesn't always mean they'll use it the way you want them to.

[StoneTheCrow]

(08-08-2023, 02:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If a company wants you to be woke you either get woke or you get a different job.  That's the way it is.  Giving corporations power over people doesn't always mean they'll use it the way you want them to.

My company would be what is considered very “woke”. (God I hate that stupid term).

I have a team of 13 employees, two of which are gay. The way the company pushes the DEI stuff drives them all bonkers, down to the person. But it’s a very good job so they just chew on it and swallow.

I really don’t care too much outside of thinking we’re there to do a GD job, not celebrate which body parts our fellow employees enjoy. That and someone at corporate has WAY too much time on their hands.

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2023, 02:17 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: My company would be what is considered very “woke”. (God I hate that stupid term).

I have a team of 13 employees, two of which are gay. The way the company pushes the DEI stuff drives them all bonkers, down to the person. But it’s a very good job so they just chew on it and swallow.

I really don’t care too much outside of thinking we’re there to do a GD job, not celebrate which body parts our fellow employees enjoy. That and someone at corporate has WAY too much time on their hands.

I hear ya, I'm sure I'd be annoyed at that but I was also annoyed when one of the sales managers at a job I had decided everyone "totally wanted" to see a bunch of pictures of her wedding.  My main point about this stuff is that we're so used to people being so in your face about being straight that any mention of any other segment of the population just seem like an invasion of our senses.

This is nothing new.  You had a bunch of sitcoms with white couples and then I Love Lucy comes on and people are like "Woah, white woman and a Hispanic immigrant?  Geeezzzz stop pushing stuff on us!!!!"  The Brady Bunch seems like the most schmaltzy cookie-cutter whitewashed thing ever, but at the time it was seen as needlessly bold for having Carol Brady be a divorcee.

I'm getting off topic I guess.  Just seems like everyone is always finding stuff to declare to be forced on them that is hardly being forced in any way a bunch of stuff we've stopped noticing is.

[*michaelsean*]

Could someone summarize the science? I’ve tried to read some articles about the science, but it always comes across to me as a psychosis. And I don’t mean that in a demeaning way. The brain is out of touch with reality. They feel like they should be the opposite sex and it really doesn’t seem to have that much to do with today’s societal norms. I think they would have felt that way 1000 years ago or 1000 years from now.

[treee]

(08-08-2023, 08:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Could someone summarize the science?  I’ve tried to read some articles about the science, but it always comes across to me as a psychosis. And I don’t mean that in a demeaning way. The brain is out of touch with reality. They feel like they should be the opposite sex and it really doesn’t seem to have that much to do with today’s societal norms. I think they would have felt that way 1000 years ago or 1000 years from now.

Psychosis has a specific description within psychology. Something like: a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. Transgender people are quite aware of their sex, that is why they experience gender dysphoria. I would not say that they are unaware of reality. They transition specifically to alleviate the symptoms of gender dysphoria. 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-08-2023, 08:31 PM)treee Wrote: Psychosis has a specific description within psychology. Something like: a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. Transgender people are quite aware of their sex, that is why they experience gender dysphoria. I would not say that they are unaware of reality. They transition specifically to alleviate the symptoms of gender dysphoria. 

I think I need to up my reading glasses number

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2023, 08:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Could someone summarize the science? I’ve tried to read some articles about the science, but it always comes across to me as a psychosis. And I don’t mean that in a demeaning way. The brain is out of touch with reality. They feel like they should be the opposite sex and it really doesn’t seem to have that much to do with today’s societal norms. I think they would have felt that way 1000 years ago or 1000 years from now.

Gender incongruence, is when a person's gender (or the degree of femininity/masculinity they express in society) does not match their biological sex. Many cultures throughout history, dating to at least 4,000 years ago in China, have recognized more than two genders in a way that accounts for this incongruence in different ways. Because of Christian influence in colonialism, many of these cultural practices were suppressed or eradicated as the church leaders saw these practices as immoral and pushed those views on cultures they conquered which is where we fell for a long time.

Because ignoring the phenomenon doesn't make it go away, people that fell into these categories still exist. As a result, psychologists were studying them. At first with the view you express here: psychosis. However, through continued study both of these individuals and anthropological research, the social sciences have come to recognize the differences between the social construct of gender and the biological sex and how those things interplay.

It is also important to note that there is evidence of physiological differences in those experiencing gender incongruence where certain structures in the brain have shown to be different, oftentimes more similar to that of the sex with which they identify than the sex they have been assigned. Of course, there is still a ton of research to be done, but understanding the differences between sex and gender and how those two things interact is the biggest thing to take away.

[basballguy]

(08-08-2023, 08:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Gender incongruence, is when a person's gender (or the degree of femininity/masculinity they express in society) does not match their biological sex. Many cultures throughout history, dating to at least 4,000 years ago in China, have recognized more than two genders in a way that accounts for this incongruence in different ways. Because of Christian influence in colonialism, many of these cultural practices were suppressed or eradicated as the church leaders saw these practices as immoral and pushed those views on cultures they conquered which is where we fell for a long time.

Because ignoring the phenomenon doesn't make it go away, people that fell into these categories still exist. As a result, psychologists were studying them. At first with the view you express here: psychosis. However, through continued study both of these individuals and anthropological research, the social sciences have come to recognize the differences between the social construct of gender and the biological sex and how those things interplay.

It is also important to note that there is evidence of physiological differences in those experiencing gender incongruence where certain structures in the brain have shown to be different, oftentimes more similar to that of the sex with which they identify than the sex they have been assigned. Of course, there is still a ton of research to be done, but understanding the differences between sex and gender and how those two things interact is the biggest thing to take away.

Curious about your thoughts on this:

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/33283#:~:text=It%20was%20in%20the%201970s,determined%22%20aspects%20(sex).

Quote:The concept of gender, in the modern sense, is a recent invention in human history. The ancient world had no basis of understanding gender as it has been understood in the humanities and social sciences for the past few decades.The term gender had been associated with grammar for most of history and only started to move towards it being a malleable cultural construct in the 1950s and 1960s.[6]

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2023, 09:08 PM)basballguy Wrote: Curious about your thoughts on this:

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/33283#:~:text=It%20was%20in%20the%201970s,determined%22%20aspects%20(sex).

I would disagree with the assertion that gender as a concept is newer. The term gender and its use in the way we use it now in the social sciences is new, but the idea of gender incongruence and the way some members of society interacted in a way that was different than what was seen as typical of those of their sex (which is also a new term, FWIW), is thousands of years old. With us having that knowledge it is hard to claim that the concept is new.

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2023, 08:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Gender incongruence, is when a person's gender (or the degree of femininity/masculinity they express in society) does not match their biological sex. Many cultures throughout history, dating to at least 4,000 years ago in China, have recognized more than two genders in a way that accounts for this incongruence in different ways. Because of Christian influence in colonialism, many of these cultural practices were suppressed or eradicated as the church leaders saw these practices as immoral and pushed those views on cultures they conquered which is where we fell for a long time.

Because ignoring the phenomenon doesn't make it go away, people that fell into these categories still exist. As a result, psychologists were studying them. At first with the view you express here: psychosis. However, through continued study both of these individuals and anthropological research, the social sciences have come to recognize the differences between the social construct of gender and the biological sex and how those things interplay.

It is also important to note that there is evidence of physiological differences in those experiencing gender incongruence where certain structures in the brain have shown to be different, oftentimes more similar to that of the sex with which they identify than the sex they have been assigned. Of course, there is still a ton of research to be done, but understanding the differences between sex and gender and how those two things interact is the biggest thing to take away.

I can't remember all this stuff...I'll just take the easy way out and let people live their own lives.

[GMDino]

(08-08-2023, 09:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't remember all this stuff...I'll just take the easy way out and let people live their own lives.

My wife works with a woman who is married to another woman.

I assumed they were lesbians.  My wife said her co worker identifies as a male.  A quick look at her email for work and she identifies as a female.

Didn't really matter though because I call her by her first name. 

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2023, 10:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: My wife works with a woman who is married to another woman.

I assumed they were lesbians.  My wife said her co worker identifies as a male.  A quick look at her email for work and she identifies as a female.

Didn't really matter though because I call her by her first name. 

Mislabeling people on purpose is a bit of a dick move, for sure.  I say this as someone who still remembers how much it stung to be accidentally mislabeled as a Steeler fan because my co workers in NYC in 2005 knew I was from PA and congratulated me on the Steelers winning the Super Bowl.  On a different note, I own about 10 Italy soccer jerseys because I got sick of people calling me Gandhi, Akbar, or "you Mexican piece of shit."

[NATI BENGALS]

I’ve often felt like a tall man trapped in a short man’s body. But I’m not going to run to a doc and let them do plastic surgery and painfully lengthen my femurs.

This gender stuff is elective surgery. You can’t get your ears pierced or a tattoo if under 18 without parental consent.

I really could give two shits about someone playing the victim and suing a doctor because they opted to have their body altered. That’s on you or your parent or guardian.

It’s not natural and it’s permanent.

Same thing I would tell someone thinking of getting a big face tattoo. You might want to rethink that choice.

[GreenDragon]

(08-08-2023, 03:34 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: If having a penis or vagina doesn’t determine gender, how does having said penis or vagina removed confirm gender?

Are you trying to tell us something, BFritz?

[basballguy]

(08-08-2023, 10:29 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’ve often felt like a tall man trapped in a short man’s body. But I’m not going to run to a doc and let them do plastic surgery and painfully lengthen my femurs.

This gender stuff is elective surgery. You can’t get your ears pierced or a tattoo if under 18 without parental consent.

I really could give two shits about someone playing the victim and suing a doctor because they opted to have their body altered. That’s on you or your parent or guardian.

It’s not natural and it’s permanent.

Same thing I would tell someone thinking of getting a big face tattoo. You might want to rethink that choice.

Ok.....

Who hacked NATI BENGALS?

[GMDino]

I know I've told the story before of my good friend, who we all knew was gay in HS, coming out in college.  The girl I was dating at the time was also friends with him and I made a joke about him looking at me in the shower after gym and she said "What makes you think he'd be attracted to YOU?" And it was one of the best learning moments of my life.

Matt Walsh (an adult man) says pansexuals are "scary" because he doesn't know who they're attracted to: "Other people have a right to know if they are potential objects of your sexual fantasies" pic.twitter.com/jZJi8YSlBH

— Jason S. Campbell (@JasonSCampbell) August 8, 2023

 




The people are just afraid of anything different and that they might be treated like they treat the "objects of their desire".