German Antifa Far-Left Extremists Release ‘Riot Tourist’ Instr. Terror Handbook

[GMDino]

(08-06-2018, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's for all groups. I have no problem with anyone expressing their views; however, when your purpose is to stop others from expressing theirs, simply because you disagree, then I have a problem. BTW, anyone seen Lucie lately?

Based on pulling up a post from 3 months ago (that was locked until today) I bet someone has.

(08-06-2018, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said these Antifa folks could have made their opposition known at an alternate location.

As you know we recently had an occupy ICE movement here in Louisville and a group wanted to stage an anti-protest. They did so in a different location and it went largely unnoticed. 

Yep. Those counter protest work really well when there's no one around to counter.

Maybe the residents should have gone to a different city altogether? Just to avoid upsetting your friends the nazis...

[Benton]

(08-06-2018, 02:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is the silliest popular stance asserted on this matter. We know violence has happened in situations such as this before, but they should not show up prepared to defend themselves if violence erupted.

Like I said if there's no counter-protest they're just a bunch of clowns dressed up stupidly. However, if there is a counter-protest and LEO has to step in and stop the violence from the Antifa; then their attire is appropriate. 

Or confusing, which some accuse of being the intent. 

[Benton]

(08-06-2018, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  

Do you have an opinion on the matter? 

Yes. 

I don't like groups that spread messages of hate, and I don't have an issue with counter protestors showing that there's more people with less hate.

That's a general opinion and I'm sure there are some positive messages in there among the desire to turn the world into an all-white sausage fest.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 02:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Based on pulling up a post from 3 months ago (that was locked until today) I bet someone has.  


Yep.  Those counter protest work really well when there's no one around to counter.  

Maybe the residents should have gone to a different city altogether?  Just to avoid upsetting your friends the nazis...

I try to find a relevant thread to add to instead of starting a shiny new thread about everything.

No need to slur me by stating Nazis are my friends (folks I have called clowns numerous times in this and other threads) simply because I feel everyone should be granted the right to peaceful protest and condemn those who look to make the protest less than peaceful. 

My initial post in this matter was that LEOs determined the Antifa were the aggressors in this situation and maneuvered to minimize the violence. I further asserted folks are disagreeing with what the LEOs did because of their biased natures. 

I think my point has been proven right numerous times, by numerous people in the thread. Botomline: The Antifa were in the wrong, but some will excuse their actions. 

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 03:06 PM)Benton Wrote: Or confusing, which some accuse of being the intent. 

Well we cannot always save the easily confused from themselves. 

[Benton]

(08-06-2018, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well we cannot always save the easily confused from themselves. 

I never pegged the alt-right as trying to save anyone. 

Probably all the swastikas. 

And Nazi slogans.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2018, 03:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I try to find a relevant thread to add to instead of starting a shiny new thread about everything.

No need to slur me by stating Nazis are my friends (folks I have called clowns numerous times in this and other threads) simply because I feel everyone should be granted the right to peaceful protest and condemn those who look to make the protest less than peaceful. 

My initial post in this matter was that LEOs determined the Antifa were the aggressors in this situation and maneuvered to minimize the violence. I further asserted folks are disagreeing with what the LEOs did because of their biased natures. 

I think my point has been proven right numerous times, by numerous people in the thread. Botomline: The Antifa were in the wrong, but some will excuse their actions. 

You failed to provide evidence that the counter-protestors, or even the protestors, were being violent. The only violence according to the article you provided was at the hands of the police. HuffPo gives a couple of explanations provided to them for the reason for the riot control methods but states they say no violent activity. This makes your argument specious, at best.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 04:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You failed to provide evidence that the counter-protestors, or even the protestors, were being violent. The only violence according to the article you provided was at the hands of the police. HuffPo gives a couple of explanations provided to them for the reason for the riot control methods but states they say no violent activity. This makes your argument specious, at best.

There are countless articles that cite the Police Commissioner stated that lawbreakers forced her agency to respond and led to these arrests:

• Robert J. Majure, 27, on suspicion of harassment and resist arrest;
• Tracy L Molina, 45, on suspicion of second-degree disorderly conduct and attempted assault on a public safety officer;
• Tristan I. Rominemann, 28, on suspicion of interfering with a police officer, second-degree disorderly conduct and harassment;
• and Joseph C. Evans, 34, on suspicion of recklessly endangering another person and unlawful use of a weapon.
  

My assumption was that those involved in the discussion were aware of this. My link was to simply show folks justifying this violence.  But we can assume the Portland Police Commissioner is simply protecting the "white-supremacist sausage fest"

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 03:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think my point has been proven right numerous times, by numerous people in the thread. Botomline: The Antifa were in the wrong, but some will excuse their actions. 

I have read multiple stories from different sources and I still don't see where you get that the counter protestors were "aggressors" while prayer patriots were "peaceful".

There are plenty of videos of people from both sides blocking the streets.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2018, 04:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There are countless articles that cite the Police Commissioner stated that lawbreakers forced her agency to respond and led to these arrests:

• Robert J. Majure, 27, on suspicion of harassment and resist arrest;
• Tracy L Molina, 45, on suspicion of second-degree disorderly conduct and attempted assault on a public safety officer;
• Tristan I. Rominemann, 28, on suspicion of interfering with a police officer, second-degree disorderly conduct and harassment;
• and Joseph C. Evans, 34, on suspicion of recklessly endangering another person and unlawful use of a weapon.
  

My assumption was that those involved in the discussion were aware of this. My link was to simply show folks justifying this violence.  But we can assume the Portland Police Commissioner is simply protecting the "white-supremacist sausage fest"

My entire knowledge of this situation is based on what has been provided in this thread and the linked article. When I see someone make a claim and link to an article, I am operating under the assumption that the article provides some sort of support to the claim. I don't assume others reading and responding in a thread have additional information when I make a thread or post in one unless that information is linked to. Maybe that's just me, though.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2018, 04:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There are countless articles that cite the Police Commissioner stated that lawbreakers forced her agency to respond and led to these arrests:

• Robert J. Majure, 27, on suspicion of harassment and resist arrest;
• Tracy L Molina, 45, on suspicion of second-degree disorderly conduct and attempted assault on a public safety officer;
• Tristan I. Rominemann, 28, on suspicion of interfering with a police officer, second-degree disorderly conduct and harassment;
• and Joseph C. Evans, 34, on suspicion of recklessly endangering another person and unlawful use of a weapon.
  

My assumption was that those involved in the discussion were aware of this. My link was to simply show folks justifying this violence.  But we can assume the Portland Police Commissioner is simply protecting the "white-supremacist sausage fest"

Do the "countless articles" (uncited) also only say "suspicion" and not that anyone was actually charged with anything?

[Bengalzona]

I think it is all just actors paid by the Right.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 05:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: My entire knowledge of this situation is based on what has been provided in this thread and the linked article. When I see someone make a claim and link to an article, I am operating under the assumption that the article provides some sort of support to the claim. I don't assume others reading and responding in a thread have additional information when I make a thread or post in one unless that information is linked to. Maybe that's just me, though.

However, it appears you are fine with posting in one without knowledge of the situation. I'll never make assumptions about your knowledge again.

Now, with the additional knowledge provided; perhaps you can join me in laying the blame with Antifa... am I right? 

[Benton]

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/08/patriot_prayer_antifa_face_off.html

Since the first link didn’t provide a lot of detail on why the violence against Antifa, found a little more there. Still doesn’t really explain well, but sounds like the cops told everyone to disperse and started using crowd control on antifa when they didn’t. Doesn’t really explain if prayer patriots weren’t targeted because they were complying or because they just... well, weren’t targeted.

Either way, doesn’t really sound like any violence on the part of any of the protestors, just cops trying to break things up before it got that way.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 08:16 PM)Benton Wrote: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/08/patriot_prayer_antifa_face_off.html

Since the first link didn’t provide a lot of detail on why the violence against Antifa, found a little more there. Still doesn’t really explain well, but sounds like the cops told everyone to disperse and started using crowd control on antifa when they didn’t. Doesn’t really explain if prayer patriots weren’t targeted because they were complying or because they just... well, weren’t targeted.

Either way, doesn’t really sound like any violence on the part of any of the protestors, just cops trying to break things up before it got that way.

Arrests to include charges of:
Attempted assault on a public safety officer
Recklessly Endangering another person
Unlawful use of a weapon

But we don't have any indication of violence.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2018, 05:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: However, it appears you are fine with posting in one without knowledge of the situation. I'll never make assumptions about your knowledge again.

Now, with the additional knowledge provided; perhaps you can join me in laying the blame with Antifa... am I right? 

No. I have yet to see a source that says that one side started getting violent, or that those four charged were from any particular side. The only things I have read, today, have said that the city is investigating the police response for being heavy handed and that this recent protest was actually not at a point of violence like others in the past have.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 08:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No. I have yet to see a source that says that one side started getting violent, or that those four charged were from any particular side. The only things I have read, today, have said that the city is investigating the police response for being heavy handed and that this recent protest was actually not at a point of violence like others in the past have.

Are you reading for yourself or going off links provided? 

What if I told you all 4 arrested were from the Antifa side; would that matter? I bet it wouldn't but of course I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Of course the city is going to investigate the Police for being heavy-handed; as I said in my first post, folks are aghast that the police chose to stop the Antifa. The Police recognized the threat of violence was from the Antifa and actioned on them (I've provided links that have supported this) Perhaps why this one was not a point of violence like others in the past.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2018, 09:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are you reading for yourself or going off links provided? 

What if I told you all 4 arrested were from the Antifa side; would that matter? I bet it wouldn't but of course I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Of course the city is going to investigate the Police for being heavy-handed; as I said in my first post, folks are aghast that the police chose to stop the Antifa. The Police recognized the threat of violence was from the Antifa and actioned on them (I've provided links that have supported this) Perhaps why this one was not a point of violence like others in the past.

It doesn't really matter what you tell me; you can say whatever you like. I'll stick with reliable sources.

I have yet to see a source saying either side had gotten violent. Based upon the hundreds that were there and the four people arrested, not so bad. Most of those arrested seem to be based mostly on interactions with police, so I can infer that it is likely those actions were taken after the police started moving on the crowd, not actions that caused the police to start their actions.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2018, 08:16 PM)Benton Wrote: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/08/patriot_prayer_antifa_face_off.html

Since the first link didn’t provide a lot of detail on why the violence against Antifa, found a little more there. Still doesn’t really explain well, but sounds like the cops told everyone to disperse and started using crowd control on antifa when they didn’t. Doesn’t really explain if prayer patriots weren’t targeted because they were complying or because they just... well, weren’t targeted.

Either way, doesn’t really sound like any violence on the part of any of the protestors, just cops trying to break things up before it got that way.

I've read sources stating that neither side was complying with law enforcement directives but that the bigots weren't targeted. Definitely some interesting stuff.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 09:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It doesn't really matter what you tell me; you can say whatever you like. I'll stick with reliable sources.

I have yet to see a source saying either side had gotten violent. Based upon the hundreds that were there and the four people arrested, not so bad. Most of those arrested seem to be based mostly on interactions with police, so I can infer that it is likely those actions were taken after the police started moving on the crowd, not actions that caused the police to start their actions.

Dang you're hard to read. Earlier you blamed you ignorance of the situation on me because you relied solely on the link I provided and now you don't care what I say or provide. But at least you are honest; it wouldn't matter what I shared with you. your heels are dug in. 

I wonder if your desire for undisputed proof of violence would be the same if the police had actioned on the the other side and all 4 arrested on violent charges would have been from them. 

As I have continuously asserted and you and others have continuously supported that assertion: folks will defy their own logic to support their bias.