Every American should be very upset. Ukraine is in Europe, but US gibes Ukraine tens of billions of dollars in cash and weapons while Germany does very little if anything.
Trump got NATO countries to pay their fair share, he leaves office and countries give US the middle finger due to poor leadership of strength by Biden administration.
Fix it Joe and fix it now.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
Every American should be very upset. Ukraine is in Europe, but US gibes Ukraine tens of billions of dollars in cash and weapons while Germany does very little if anything.
Trump got NATO countries to pay their fair share, he leaves office and countries give US the middle finger due to poor leadership of strength by Biden administration.
Fix it Joe and fix it now.
First, no, Trump didn't get them to pay up. Second, what do you propose we do?
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
Every American should be very upset. Ukraine is in Europe, but US gibes Ukraine tens of billions of dollars in cash and weapons while Germany does very little if anything.
Trump got NATO countries to pay their fair share, he leaves office and countries give US the middle finger due to poor leadership of strength by Biden administration.
Fix it Joe and fix it now.
Just doing a quick review of historical NATO spending by country, by year, shows that Germany is paying roughly what they have always paid, though they have been incrementally gaining. From 2014-2021, Germany spent anywhere from 1.19% to 1.55% of their GDP on NATO. They are currently paying 1.6%. The request was to pay 2%, Germany declined to make a legal commitment to it. Instead, Germany has pledged to meet that 2% mark over a five year average.
In 2014, NATO members made a commitment to slowly raise NATO payments to 2% of their national GDP on NATO. Germany was meeting that commitment by incrementally increasing their payments, which they have continued to do under Biden. That wasn't a Trump thing and just part of the original agreement. They have continued to increase under Biden, but not enough to reach the 2% mark.
Every American should be very upset. Ukraine is in Europe, but US gibes Ukraine tens of billions of dollars in cash and weapons while Germany does very little if anything.
The latter part just is not true. The US gives 0.3% of GDP to Ukraine, all kinds of aid combined, while Germany gives 0,5% of their GDP, directly or through the EU.
Why do have so many troops in Germany? We could use these troops to secure the border.
So, just to be clear, you would like us to reduce our global military capabilities? And what do you propose our military should do at the border?
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(08-18-2023, 07:29 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, just to be clear, you would like us to reduce our global military capabilities? And what do you propose our military should do at the border?
Yes, I see no need for US troops in Europe. How many German troops are in the US? How many foreign troops from any country are in the US?
For the border, i would use the military to capture and or kill cartel members bringing people to our border. I would also have them build the rest of the wall to keep illegal immigrants out.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(08-18-2023, 08:49 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yes, I see no need for US troops in Europe. How many German troops are in the US? How many foreign troops from any country are in the US?
I won't say whether I agree or disagree. I would just say that the DoD sees them as necessary for our response to global threats against our national interests.
(08-18-2023, 08:49 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: For the border, i would use the military to capture and or kill cartel members bringing people to our border. I would also have them build the rest of the wall to keep illegal immigrants out.
So, our personnel in European bases are active duty personnel. Active duty are unable to engage in law enforcement activities due to the Posse Comitatus Act. People like to cry foul with this claim when it comes to things like the idiots sending ARNG personnel to the border, but because Nasty Girls are under state authority they are not covered by the PCA. Active duty personnel, though, are because they are federal.
As for the border wall, the areas where we have a border wall are the areas where it works. Border walls in much of the terrain are not feasible due to environmental factors and are not effective. Physical barriers are most effective in urban areas as it slows down border crossers so that law enforcement are afforded more time for their response. In the more wild areas of the border, a wall would be costly, more prone to destruction, have a negative impact on the ecology, and would not provide an effective deterrent to crossings.
In all, our immigration crisis is not one that can be solved by border security. That's a bit of fear mongering. The immigration crisis we face is a humanitarian crisis and something we need to address with our partners in the hemisphere as well as by putting resources into our immigration system so people can be processed through more expeditiously.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
Every American should be very upset. Ukraine is in Europe, but US gibes Ukraine tens of billions of dollars in cash and weapons while Germany does very little if anything.
Trump got NATO countries to pay their fair share, he leaves office and countries give US the middle finger due to poor leadership of strength by Biden administration.
Although I am FOR reducing our military budget in some way I don't see how allowing Russia to invade and keep land is a good thing, or how leaving our allies in Europe is a good thing.
(08-18-2023, 11:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: This all sounds so familiar.
Although I am FOR reducing our military budget in some way I don't see how allowing Russia to invade and keep land is a good thing, or how leaving our allies in Europe is a good thing.
I was more into pulling troops from Germany when it was a libertarian talking point. Now that pulling that and pulling funding from Ukraine is being floated by people who clearly show preference for Putin and leaders of his ilk, I'm less inclined to hold my prior positions. It's hard to see it as a fiscal move and more of a move to support authoritarianism from the people who want to bring as much of that ruling style to our own country.
It's like being out in public and seeing someone hit their kid and saying "Geez, I don't want to get involved' versus seeing it and saying "I don't want to get involved, because kids need to be beaten." Sorry for another side story.
(08-18-2023, 11:43 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I was more into pulling troops from Germany when it was a libertarian talking point. Now that pulling that and pulling funding from Ukraine is being floated by people who clearly show preference for Putin and leaders of his ilk, I'm less inclined to hold my prior positions. It's hard to see it as a fiscal move and more of a move to support authoritarianism from the people who want to bring as much of that ruling style to our own country.
It's like being out in public and seeing someone hit their kid and saying "Geez, I don't want to get involved' versus seeing it and saying "I don't want to get involved, because kids need to be beaten." Sorry for another side story.
I tend to agree, here. I am not a big fan of our role as the global police force and have long advocated to reducing our footprint around the globe. The events in Ukraine have caused me to reevaluate my positions, and especially the response from people that are parroting propaganda generated from Kremlin-friendly sources.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(08-18-2023, 12:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I tend to agree, here. I am not a big fan of our role as the global police force and have long advocated to reducing our footprint around the globe. The events in Ukraine have caused me to reevaluate my positions, and especially the response from people that are parroting propaganda generated from Kremlin-friendly sources.
As we should have learned in the '30s, the international system (commerce and the law which organizes and protects it) abhors power vacuums.
(08-18-2023, 08:49 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yes, I see no need for US troops in Europe. How many German troops are in the US? How many foreign troops from any country are in the US?
For the border, i would use the military to capture and or kill cartel members bringing people to our border. I would also have them build the rest of the wall to keep illegal immigrants out.
None at the moment, because we have a defensive perimeter that extends from our West Coast to the South China Sea and from our East Coast and to the Baltic and Black Seas.
But that could change if we simultaneously reduce that defensive shield abroad, and the alliances which maintain it, in favor of a more divisive and authoritarian politics at home.
Xi won't dare eff with us if he sees the U.S. collapse its defensive perimeter and disconnect alliances to focus on our southern border.
(08-18-2023, 10:42 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: we should also stop giving money to ukraine
Putin, Xi, and MTG certainly think so.
So do a lot of Americans who believe that the politicians who want us out of Ukraine would then take all the money saved from shoring up the international system, upon which our economy and military advantage depend, and plow it back into rural America. But they're not really that kind of politician. Into cutting taxes, but not actually governing.
(08-19-2023, 08:46 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Soviet Union went away in 1991. NATO no longer has a reason to exist other than to bleed the US dry.
NATO looks pretty helpful, now that Putin has launched a full scale war on another European state.
It is also becoming more helpful as the U.S. finds itself once again facing a full spectrum adversary,
which for the moment lags far behind the U.S.' massive diplomatic power, and the extra economic'
leverage that comes with it.
It won't lag, though, if the U.S. destroys its own leverage. Withdrawing from the Iran Deal and the
TPP dealt U.S. power and prestige a pretty severe blow. But no need to utterly destroy it by, say, withdrawing
from an alliance which effectively doubles U.S. economic/military power at minimal cost.
(Since the Soviet Union is gone, I say also scrap treaty restrictions based the defunct power arrangements
and include a currently free-riding central European nation too!)
Every American should be very upset. Ukraine is in Europe, but US gibes Ukraine tens of billions of dollars in cash and weapons while Germany does very little if anything.
Trump got NATO countries to pay their fair share, he leaves office and countries give US the middle finger due to poor leadership of strength by Biden administration.
Hmmm. A VERY excitable guy who dislikes Biden and thinks Trump would do a better job responding to the Maui fire.
He doesn't want to fuel conspiracy theories, but includes a guy who mentions "nukes" and questions about why Oprah's house
wasn't touched. And another "guest" who is supposedly a "lefty"--but is surprised that a horde of capitalists would descend on a disaster area
looking for cheap real estate, as landlords evict tenants, and that makes him wonder if he's on the "right side of the aisle"?
(Is this just another example of political confusion, common now that "leftists" are seen everywhere, or a more deliberate misdirection?)
So exactly what has "all come out"?
Why would you give that video wider circulation rather than than something like this link?
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: images.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/D0xbp7dF/images.jpg)
![[Image: 410WDOGF6OL._SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_FMwebp_.jpg]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/410WDOGF6OL._SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_FMwebp_.jpg)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/1kwsTjL8BNqlszNtnCE/giphy.gif)
![[Image: 4540978331_3e8fe35323.jpg]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2781/4540978331_3e8fe35323.jpg)
