Good Night Irene

[Bengalzona]

Personally, I don't worry much about what other people do during the anthem. I do what I do (stand and face the flag in public, scratch my balls while lying on the couch watching the TV at home.... sometimes I'll complain about the quality of the anthem singer as well).

Why should I care what dude over there is doing? Conformity? Nationalism? Am I to be the "Anthem Policeman" and correct other peoples' behavior? Sorry, but I don't feel that kinda self-righteousness.

Those who kneel aren't hurting me or mine in any way. In fact, I view kneeling as more respectful than standing. I kneel with my son to pray at night to show proper homage and humility to the God I believe in. And I respect God WAY more than I respect anything in this world.

A lot of churches have little padded kneeling rails that you pull down when you pray. Maybe we need to install those in football stadiums. I'll bet a lot a lot of the drunker fans from the tailgate parties would appreciate kneeling rather than having to stand up.

[jj22]

Exactly why Vets told players to kneel. If you want to say they were disrespecting the Anthem/Flag etc, then sitting the bench would have been it. Kneeling is an act of grace. Always has been until now. Hopefully the good Lord don't think we are being disrespectful to him when we kneel.

[GMDino]

(08-16-2018, 12:56 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So the military fights for our flag. Therefore disrespecting the national anthem is disrespecting the flag which is disrespecting the military.


This is like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon but for finding ways to get outraged. 

"They don't even know what their message is!!!"
"They can't get their message out!!!!"
"They failed to get people talking about their message!"
"Now let me talk for a year about why *I* think kneeling is disrespectful rather than their message!!!"

[Shake n Blake]

(08-15-2018, 07:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Kneeling during the anthem is not disrespectful to service men.  There are too many veterans who agree with the kneeling.  Your opinion is your opinion.  It is not a fact.  You don't have the authority to speak for every person who ever served in the military.

They do not kneel to "disrespect" anyone.  They do it to draw attention to what they perceive as injustice.

Donald Trump spent his entire campaign claiming the United States had a lot of problems that need to be corrected.  That is all these football players are saying.  If what Kap was doing is disrespectful then Trumps entire campaign was based on disrespect.

Why did they choose the Anthem for their stage? If you don't believe it had something to do with the uproar it'd cause, you're not being honest.

Now why would it cause an uproar? The answer is that it is viewed as a disrespectful act.

[Bengalzona]

Are there bars where they make people stand when the anthem is played on the TV at sporting events?

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen this.

I have seen it at a bar once during the Superbowl, but never during regular season or playoff games. Frankly, I don't have a problem with it. It's their bar, their rules. As long as those rules aren't things like "No Blacks or Homersexuals Allowed!!", I have no problem with that. Or if they try to force handicapped people to stand. That ain't good either.

My son and I were stuck at an airport four years ago during the superbowl. All the people at the seating area were watching the TV, but none of them stood during the anthem.

Why is there this apparent disconnect between how people act in the stadium and how they act when they are just watching a broadcast of the same event? Doesn't the anthem evoke the same sense of pride?

[GMDino]

(08-16-2018, 02:17 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Are there bars where they make people stand when the anthem is played on the TV at sporting events?

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen this.

I have seen it at a bar once during the Superbowl, but never during regular season or playoff games. Frankly, I don't have a problem with it. It's their bar, their rules. As long as those rules aren't things like "No Blacks or Homersexuals Allowed!!", I have no problem with that. Or if they try to force handicapped people to stand. That ain't good either.

My son and I were stuck at an airport four years ago during the superbowl. All the people at the seating area were watching the TV, but none of them stood during the anthem.

Why is there this apparent disconnect between how people act in the stadium and how they act when they are just watching a broadcast of the same event? Doesn't the anthem evoke the same sense of pride?

The disconnect is that some people don't want any protests at all because they do not think anything is wrong.  So they complain about the protests and how they protest rather than engage in discussion about the topic of the protests.

It's amusing...but frustrating to watch.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-16-2018, 02:17 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Are there bars where they make people stand when the anthem is played on the TV at sporting events?

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen this.

I have seen it at a bar once during the Superbowl, but never during regular season or playoff games. Frankly, I don't have a problem with it. It's their bar, their rules. As long as those rules aren't things like "No Blacks or Homersexuals Allowed!!", I have no problem with that. Or if they try to force handicapped people to stand. That ain't good either.

My son and I were stuck at an airport four years ago during the superbowl. All the people at the seating area were watching the TV, but none of them stood during the anthem.

Why is there this apparent disconnect between how people act in the stadium and how they act when they are just watching a broadcast of the same event? Doesn't the anthem evoke the same sense of pride?

I'm guessing it's due to the fact that most people don't usually have a flag on display in their homes or at bars.

[*Nately120*]

(08-16-2018, 12:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Trump was an idiot to get involved to begin with, I'll explain why below. But the original point of kneeling didn't get muddied up due to Trump. It got covered over because of the act itself. During the 2016 season, there was quite a lot of debate on it going on, and lost during that debate was why it got started in the first place. The debate was over the method. And I even said back then their protest has backfired because no one cares about their message now.

On to Trump. He was an idiot a year later in Sept of 2017 I believe, to lash out at those that kneeled. At that point it seemed the kneeling was subsiding, and was just going to be a fad that will soon fade out.  But then he opened his big mouth about it, and basically threw a keg of gasoline on embers burning out. Since then he made it about himself as I agree and tried to keep the division going on it for his base, rather than just letting it die out on it's own, since he does love his rhetoric.

Trump was a genius to lash out because by doing so he gets to rile up his base of support while simultaneously hurting the business of a rival that spurned him multiple times over the decades.  Every time he makes a big deal about this it's more support for him and more trouble for the NFL.  Genius marketing move on his part. That'd be like somebody giving me a $20 bill every time I badmouth my ex. Sign me up!

Furthermore, the more people equate respect with the flag the less people think destroying the air/water/land that makes up this country is disrespectful to people who fought and died for it.  I stand and respect the flag and veterans!  Now just pay attention to that while I poison our water so I can make some more money here...there we go.  Respect! 

[Benton]

(08-16-2018, 01:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why did they choose the Anthem for their stage? 

Because if they took a knee on third and long, they'd get fired.



Where else would they have an opportunity to protest and it draw attention to the issue? You can't do it during the game without it impacting the game. And after or before, probably just flip to commercials. Off the field? Nobody would see it. 

[Bengalzona]

(08-16-2018, 02:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: The disconnect is that some people don't want any protests at all because they do not think anything is wrong.  So they complain about the protests and how they protest rather than engage in discussion about the topic of the protests.

It's amusing...but frustrating to watch.

That is nothing new. It was basically how the Vietnam War protests were handled by some. "Look at them hippies! What have they got to complain about! They are disrespecting our country!!! I heard they are spitting on soldiers returning from Vietnam!!!"

There were counterprotests to free Lt. Caulley after he ordered his troops to murder women and children.

[Millhouse]

(08-16-2018, 02:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump was a genius to lash out because by doing so he gets to rile up his base of support while simultaneously hurting the business of a rival that spurned him multiple times over the decades.  Every time he makes a big deal about this it's more support for him and more trouble for the NFL.  Genius marketing move on his part. That'd be like somebody giving me a $20 bill every time I badmouth my ex.  Sign me up!

Furthermore, the more people equate respect with the flag the less people think destroying the air/water/land that makes up this country is disrespectful to people who fought and died for it.  I stand and respect the flag and veterans!  Now just pay attention to that while I poison our water so I can make some more money here...there we go.  Respect! 

Well yeah, it was a genius move to help serve his egotistical narcissistic self.

But calling them out as 'sons of bitches', calling out LeBron recently, calling out John McCain, amidst numerous other things he has said is starting to turn off quite a few from the 'non-deplorable' side of his base that voted for him. Well, at least from some that I know. 

[*Nately120*]

(08-16-2018, 03:34 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Well yeah, it was a genius move to help serve his egotistical narcissistic self.

But calling them out as 'sons of bitches', calling out LeBron recently, calling out John McCain, amidst numerous other things he has said is starting to turn off quite a few from the 'non-deplorable' side of his base that voted for him. Well, at least from some that I know. 

They'd still vote for him over Clinton or Johnson if we got a 2016 election re-do tomorrow, I'd wager.

[Millhouse]

(08-16-2018, 03:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: They'd still vote for him over Clinton or Johnson if we got a 2016 election re-do tomorrow, I'd wager.

Maybe over Hillary. And is that Gary Johnson? I still dont dont anything about him lol.

But put Biden in there instead, I doubt it. At least he is likeable and seems trustworthy.

[jj22]

(08-16-2018, 02:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm guessing it's due to the fact that most people don't usually have a flag on display in their homes or at bars.

Most people in the stadium is using the bathroom, in line for beer or flat out not coming in and taking their seat until the kickoff. (I used the quote function just for you!).

I (someone who really cares about our VETS) feel bad for our Vets who fought for our right to peacefully protest just to get used as pawns for political gain.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-16-2018, 03:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: Most people in the stadium is using the bathroom, in line for beer or flat out not coming in and taking their seat until the kickoff.

A point in which the pro-kneeling people should probably focus their argument on. I was only pointing out why there's a disconnect between those AT the game versus those watching the game at him.

[*bfine32*]

(08-16-2018, 12:56 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So the military fights for our flag. Therefore disrespecting the national anthem is disrespecting the flag which is disrespecting the military.


This is like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon but for finding ways to get outraged. 

I thought you wanted an explanation. It seems you were just looking for something to disagree with.

Good day.

[*bfine32*]

Folks are free to believe that not standing for the National Anthem we told to is not disrespectful. personally, I cannot conceptualize the mentality; but apparently, that's just me.

[*bfine32*]

(08-16-2018, 03:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: Most people in the stadium is using the bathroom, in line for beer or flat out not coming in and taking their seat until the kickoff. (I used the quote function just for you!).

I (someone who really cares about our VETS) feel bad for our Vets who fought for our right to peacefully protest just to get used as pawns for political gain.

And this is why I've always said "purposely" choosing to disrespect. I give less than a damn if every player in the NFL stays in the bathroom during the Anthem; however, when you are in the presence of the flag and are asked to render honors and do something purposely not to render those honors then it is your intent to disrespect.

But, I'll check with the fellas and see if they can start kneeling during the Anthem, because apparently it is more respectful.  

[*Nately120*]

(08-16-2018, 03:48 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Maybe over Hillary. And is that Gary Johnson? I still dont dont anything about him lol.

Ha, the two-party system has done it's job.  I'm biased towards the party, but libertarians tend to stand for lower taxes (in a logical way), more freedom to own guns/smoke weed/get bizayyy, and Gary Johnson was born middle-class and became rich through actual hard work, was a successful governor, and other stuff that apparently can't hold a candle to Hillary and Trump.

He isn't perfect by any means, but lordy loo people.

[GMDino]

(08-16-2018, 04:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks are free to believe that not standing for the National Anthem we told to is not disrespectful. personally, I cannot conceptualize the mentality; but apparently, that's just me.

They are protesting.  They are kneeling to draw attention to their cause while trying to be respectful.

Perhaps there is a sliding scale of "disrespect?  Like going to the bathroom versus ordering your food versus not removing your hate versus kneeling.

With only one of those trying to be a movement toward a positive resolution of a cause and the rest being ignored because...what cause?