Good Night Irene

[*Nately120*]

None of this will be an issue when we replace all the players with robutts.

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 11:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why did the tradition of playing the National Anthem start at ball games? 

I agree that they don't have a problem with the military. I do not know how many more times I can type that. But purposely not rendering honor when asked to is disrespectful. I don't know how anyone can see it as any different.

The left wants to have it all their way:

The can kneel

Their employer cannot tell them not to kneel

They can fail to show respect but not be considered disrespectful

As for me: I agree with the first one. 

BTW, you lefties need to have a conference. Some say it's not disrespectful, some say it is disrespectful, but just disrespectful to the things they want it to be.

Which is it so I can understand the mentality.

Disrespectful to who?  If we both agree that the protest was not aimed at the veterans then who is being disrespected?

If saying the country has problems is disrespectful then Donald Trump is just as bad as these players.  That was the entire theme of his campaign.

[BmorePat87]

(08-16-2018, 08:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree the original intention was not to disrespect the Military. But it does. 

Now let's delve into Fred Logic:

Fred: I don't like the fact that they use cubed ice instead of crushed ice at McDonalds, some I'm going to pull out my peepee every time I order a happy meal

Sane Person: Fred, it is not proper decorum to pull your peepee out at McDonalds

Fred: You just can't disagree with the actual issue so you try to twist it into some obscene act. 

Yes, quietly kneeling is the same thing as exposing your genitals in public. 

You nailed it. 

[GMDino]

(08-17-2018, 12:58 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yes, quietly kneeling is the same thing as exposing your genitals in public. 

You nailed it. 

Probably disrespects the military more than even Trump has ever done.  

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 08:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Fred: I don't like the fact that they use cubed ice instead of crushed ice at McDonalds, some I'm going to pull out my peepee every time I order a happy meal

This is ridiculous.  I would never order a happy meal.

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 12:58 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yes, quietly kneeling is the same thing as exposing your genitals in public. 

You nailed it. 

Oh, I fully expected folks to focus on the trees rather that the forest.

Do I need to explain the point or do you understand it and simply wanted to just say?

Change it to quietly picking his nose if that will help you focus more on the point.

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 12:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Disrespectful to who?  If we both agree that the protest was not aimed at the veterans then who is being disrespected?

If saying the country has problems is disrespectful then Donald Trump is just as bad as these players.  That was the entire theme of his campaign.

It is disrespectful to the flag, can we agree on that?

We can differ on opinion of what the flag represents, but can we just get past this one obvious hurdle?

[*PhilHos*]

(08-16-2018, 09:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So they kneel to show respect?

In many instances, kneeling IS a sign of respect and deference. Think of someone who kneels in prayer or someone who kneels before royalty or their superior (i.e. "Kneel before Zod"). So, kneeling CAN be viewed as a sign of respect.

I get that it's different because we're "required" to stand for the anthem, but just sayin' ...

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 02:03 PM)PhilHos Wrote: In many instances, kneeling IS a sign of respect and deference. Think of someone who kneels in prayer or someone who kneels before royalty or their superior (i.e. "Kneel before Zod"). So, kneeling CAN be viewed as a sign of respect.

I get that it's different because we're "required" to stand for the anthem, but just sayin' ...

You are not "required" to stand. You are simply asked to as a sign of respect.

[GMDino]

(08-17-2018, 02:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You are not "required" to stand. You are simply asked to as a sign of respect.

Then how is disrespectful to not stand, but to rather kneel quietly?

Oh right...because some don't like the cause.

Got it.

[GMDino]

(08-17-2018, 02:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I fully expected folks to focus on the trees rather that the forest.

Do I need to explain the point or do you understand it and simply wanted to just say?

Change it to quietly picking his nose if that will help you focus more on the point.

Still doesn't disrespect anyone else.

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is disrespectful to the flag, can we agree on that?

We can differ on opinion of what the flag represents, but can we just get past this one obvious hurdle?

The flag is just a piece of cloth.  It has no value or meaning other than the country for which it is a symbol.

Is it like the logo for a football team.  You can't separate them.  

The players are not saying "Our flag stinks.  We need a new one."  Instead they are saying "There are problems in this country that we need to address".  Basically exactly the same thing Trump said every day during his campaign.

[BmorePat87]

(08-17-2018, 02:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I fully expected folks to focus on the trees rather that the forest.

Do I need to explain the point or do you understand it and simply wanted to just say?

Change it to quietly picking his nose if that will help you focus more on the point.

Was your point that kneeling during the national anthem is as unacceptable as exposing your genitals in the middle of a restaurant? Because if not, then your comparison failed horrendously. 

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 03:30 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Was your point that kneeling during the national anthem is as unacceptable as exposing your genitals in the middle of a restaurant? Because if not, then your comparison failed horrendously. 

Nope, it was to refute the fact that you point to the act simply because you cannot dispute the cause. Sorry about failing horrendously; keep focusing on the trees.

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 02:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The flag is just a piece of cloth.  It has no value or meaning other than the country for which it is a symbol.

Is it like the logo for a football team.  You can't separate them.  

The players are not saying "Our flag stinks.  We need a new one."  Instead they are saying "There are problems in this country that we need to address".  Basically exactly the same thing Trump said every day during his campaign.

That's where we differ greatly. So did we reach common ground on agreeing that they are disrespecting this "piece of cloth"?

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 02:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: Still doesn't disrespect anyone else.

Guess using the word peepee was sorta like saying squirrel!! to a dog.

The point was not the genitalia (although you are the only one to focus on it). The point was Fred says you are forced to disagree with the act (read kneeling=exposure (changed to picking nose well because..)) because you cannot disagree with the cause (police inequality=crushed ice).

When in fact you can disagree with the act while agreeing the cause has merit...


DAMN, that was like pulling teeth......Note to bfine; don't use the word peepee again.

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 04:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That's where we differ greatly. So did we reach common ground on agreeing that they are disrespecting this "piece of cloth"?

Apparently not.

I don't think the players have a single problem with the actual flag.  I have not heard any of them talking about any problem with how the flag looks.  Instead they are protesting against problems with the country it represents.

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 04:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When in fact you can disagree with the act while agreeing the cause has merit...

The act is non-violent and does not even inconvenience anyone.  It is one of the most passive acts of protest in history.  I don't see why you would be upset by the actual act.

You defend the first amendment rights of white supremacists who come into a town and march through the streets with no permit causeing lots of inconvenience for lots of people.  So why the hell would you have a problem with such a passive act as kneeling during the national anthem?

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Apparently not.

I don't think the players have a single problem with the actual flag.  I have not heard any of them talking about any problem with how the flag looks.  Instead they are protesting against problems with the country it represents.

So they are showing disrespect to the nation, for which, it stands.

[*bfine32*]

(08-17-2018, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The act is non-violent and does not even inconvenience anyone.  It is one of the most passive acts of protest in history.  I don't see why you would be upset by the actual act.

You defend the first amendment rights of white supremacists who come into a town and march through the streets with no permit causeing lots of inconvenience for lots of people.  So why the hell would you have a problem with such a passive act as kneeling during the national anthem?

Where have I stated they should not be allowed to kneel? They can kneel all they want and if their employer doesn't want them kneeling (showing disrespect) on their dime, they are free to sat stop it or go find another job; just as any employer of a White supremacists can fire him if that employer doesn't like him expressing the message on his dime.

Furthermore, I'm not upset about the act; I think I've said that a few times. I'm simply stating it is an act of disrespect. it is the impetus of their protest, just take Kap's exact words when he started it.