Goodell calls Trump's comments "divisive"

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2017, 09:42 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'll finish by asking this, do you think that the majority of NFL fans (and by fans I mean people who buy jerseys and attend games, not some asshole who watches because they're in their work FF league) lean conservative of liberal?

In all seriousness, no idea. I don't know anyone personally that has gone to an NFL game (that I am aware of). My only exposure to that is people on this board. And while I have seen people wearing jerseys around here, don't know anyone personally with one, so I don't have a good sample to draw a conclusion from.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-24-2017, 09:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: In all seriousness, no idea. I don't know anyone personally that has gone to an NFL game (that I am aware of). My only exposure to that is people on this board. And while I have seen people wearing jerseys around here, don't know anyone personally with one, so I don't have a good sample to draw a conclusion from.

Let's say it's equal, although I tend to think they lean conservative.  Is alienating half of your customer base a smart business move, ever?

[Benton]

(09-24-2017, 05:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'll simply make this point. What employer is ok with their employees making political points or protests at your place of employment?

I'll simply make this counter point. How many employers start the day — every day — blasting the National Anthem?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-24-2017, 10:22 PM)Benton Wrote: I'll simply make this counter point. How many employers start the day — every day — blasting the National Anthem?

Not many to be sure.  However, it's not like the national anthem being played before sporting events is a new development, it was going on long before any player in the league was drafted or signed as a free agent.  While I get the point you are making it doesn't address the core issue at hand; how many employers allow their employees to make political statements on the clock?  At work you are a representative of your employer, everything you do reflects on them.  It's certainly not the only reason, but one of the main reasons I have never divulged what agency I work for is that there are posters here who would ascribe my viewpoints with those of my employer.

[Benton]

(09-24-2017, 10:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not many to be sure.  However, it's not like the national anthem being played before sporting events is a new development, it was going on long before any player in the league was drafted or signed as a free agent.  While I get the point you are making it doesn't address the core issue at hand; how many employers allow their employees to make political statements on the clock?  At work you are a representative of your employer, everything you do reflects on them.  It's certainly not the only reason, but one of the main reasons I have never divulged what agency I work for is that there are posters here who would ascribe my viewpoints with those of my employer.

But it still begs the questions, how many employers require their employees to make political statements on the clock?

I see your point, but it's not like McDonald's or Generic Steel Mill Inc is starting every shift with the anthem. Working at The Gap doesn't require you to swear fealty to anything.

Personally, my scruples aren't that big. If someone would pay me $3 million a year and all I've got to do is stand up during the anthem, drive my shoulder into someone's chest and not get arrested... I'd  stand up during the anthem, drive my shoulder into someone's chest and not get arrested.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-24-2017, 10:56 PM)Benton Wrote: But it still begs the questions, how many employers require their employees to make political statements on the clock?

Standing for the anthem is no more a political statement than a simple showing of respect for the country it represents.  This is apparent in the fact that players stood for the UK national anthem in London.

Quote:I see your point, but it's not like McDonald's or Generic Steel Mill Inc is starting every shift with the anthem. Working at The Gap doesn't require you to swear fealty to anything.

The anthem is not the Pledge of Allegiance.  During the Olympics everyone present stands for the anthem of the gold medal winner.  This is doen out of respect, not out of allegiance or as a political statement.

Quote:Personally, my scruples aren't that big. If someone would pay me $3 million a year and all I've got to do is stand up during the anthem, drive my shoulder into someone's chest and not get arrested... I'd  stand up during the anthem, drive my shoulder into someone's chest and not get arrested.

I suppose the gestalt protest mindset has a lot to do with it.  Lots of people thinking they're making a difference, sound and fury signifying nothing.  A paramedic or firefighter on shift right now will make more of a difference tonight than most of these NFL players will in their entire lives.  I suppose when you get paid millions to play a game you need to convince yourself you're more important than you really are.

[*Nately120*]

Trumps interference in private business as the president is unconstitutional. Its nice he respects the flag but his respect for this country is severely lacking.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-24-2017, 11:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trumps interference in private business as the president is unconstitutional. 

Yeah, you're going to have to explain that one.

[*Nately120*]

(09-25-2017, 12:34 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, you're going to have to explain that one.

Well maybe it's just a no no.  I was under the impression that the president wasn't supposed to have interests in private businesses and/or use his position of power to call for people to boycott and/or patronize specific private organizations but I could be wrong. Trump is already using his position to shill his own merchandise with impunity so I guess he can use his political office to tell people to stop patronizing other people's businesses. My bad.

[ballsofsteel]

Drumph's comments = diversion from his failing presidency, nothing more.

[*michaelsean*]

"Republicans buy shoes too." Very wise words.

[GMDino]

Happy Monday everyone pic.twitter.com/1PwE4dioRg

— Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff) September 25, 2017

[*Nately120*]

(09-25-2017, 09:49 AM)GMDino Wrote:

Happy Monday everyone pic.twitter.com/1PwE4dioRg

— Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff) September 25, 2017

Lordy, how did Trump lose support of so many white people on this one?  

[GMDino]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/donald-trump-and-the-politicization-of-everything/540915/

Quote:Donald Trump and the Depressing Politicization of Everything
One reason the president cannot resist commenting on every issue in American life is that he seemingly cannot stand the actual work of American politics.

In a flurry of comments historically unsuited to any head of state, yet hardly shocking for the current American president, Donald Trump this weekend targeted the two most popular sports in the country and elicited sharp criticism from some of their most important figures.

On Friday, Trump encouraged franchise owners in the National Football League to fire players who protest during the national anthem. “Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a ***** off the field right now, out. He’s fired,’” the president said at an Alabama rally.

Trump’s comment provoked Roger Goodell, the typically reticent commissioner of the NFL, to issue a strong statement condemning the president’s divisive language. The comment was particularly surprising, since most NFL owners who elect the league commissioner are staunch Republicans. Many of the most prominent owners donated to the Trump campaign.


Trump was undeterred. On Saturday, he disinvited the NBA champion Golden State Warriors from the White House, in a tweet. This came after several players, including star guard Stephen Curry, suggested that they would skip the ceremonial visit.

Quote:[/url] Follow
Donald J. Trump 

@realDonaldTrump
Going to the White House is considered a great honor for a championship team.Stephen Curry is hesitating,therefore invitation is withdrawn!
8:45 AM - Sep 23, 2017

In response to Trump, LeBron James, the basketball superstar whose Cleveland Cavaliers are rivals of the Warriors, called the president a “bum” on Twitter. The basketball star also pointed out the fecklessness of revoking an invitation after the other party has already declined. (Trump’s you-can’t-fire-me-because-I-quit instinct here recalls his earlier announcement to dissolve several business advisory councils, only after one of them had already disbanded.)

Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/KingJames] Follow
LeBron James 

@KingJames
U bum @StephenCurry30 already said he ain't going! So therefore ain't no invite. Going to White House was a great honor until you showed up!
11:17 AM - Sep 23, 2017

What is the meaning of these seemingly frivolous skirmishes with athletes and sports leagues? His true motivations aren’t clear, but his behavior does fit a pattern.

As Adam Serwer wrote here, there is a clear racial element to Trump’s pronouncements. When the NFL star Tom Brady, a white player, skipped his championship team’s White House visit, the president was silent. (Brady has described Trump as a “good friend,” and at one point displayed a “Make America Great Again” hat in his locker.) When Warriors star Stephen Curry, a black man, announced his intention to do the same, the president called him out on Twitter and rescinded the team’s invitation. In calling for NFL owners to fire protesting players, the president encourages an overwhelmingly white ownership group to disemploy members of overwhelmingly black NFL players union. As Serwer wrote, Trump’s instant criticism of Curry and black NFL players stands in stark contrast to his infamous hesitation to condemn white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

Another reason that the president cannot resist commenting on every non-political issue in American life is that he seemingly cannot stand the actual work of American governance—a preference made salient at a moment when lawmakers are busy trying to repeal the signature legislative achievement of Trump’s predecessor. Several Republican lawmakers said the president never mastered the details of health care policy. The president’s recent NFL commentary suggests that national anthem protests, on the other hand, are a debate he can engage with.

As a candidate, Trump promised to take a firm leadership role in changing American health care, tax policy, infrastructure spending, drug abuse, and regional inequality. But as president, Trump has given no national addressendorsing a specific health care plan. He has given no national address endorsing a specific tax reform plan. His administration has no clear plan to begin rebuilding American infrastructure, no real urgency to address the opioid crisis, and no outline to confront the economic issues that supposedly buffeted his candidacy, like regional inequality. Instead, the president has been more inclined to reserve the precious power of his bully pulpit to target his nemeses, by name, as in the case of Colin Kaepernick and Stephen Curry.

It has been said that the age of Trump is the politicization of everything. The claim is impossible to dispute, especially one week after an Emmy’s ceremony that felt like an extended presidential roast. But it’s important to note that Trump is choosing to politicize sports and entertainment, not only because he is inclined toward controversy, but also because he is so demonstrably uninterested in actual policy and the political process.

Nobody is forcing the president to morph into a sports radio commentator. It is merely the role that best suits the skills that come most naturally to the former game-show host. Consider the simple, uncontroversial fact that in his ninth month in office, the  U.S. president has a clearer position on Stephen Curry’s White House clearance than on any single detail of health care or tax reform. Trump is so bored by the quotidian demands of his surprisingly “complicated”job, which requires guiding policy through a complex political process, that he uses his position to instead harass Americans on the internet. Judging by the attention his sports commentary received this weekend, one can assume that Trump’s shock-jock-in-chief routine will be a long-running show.

[Benton]

(09-24-2017, 11:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Standing for the anthem is no more a political statement than a simple showing of respect for the country it represents.  This is apparent in the fact that players stood for the UK national anthem in London.

I'm not aware of May calling out NFL players. Trump politicized the issue. Standing, or not standing, isn't about respecting the country any more. It's about politicization. 

Quote:The anthem is not the Pledge of Allegiance.  During the Olympics everyone present stands for the anthem of the gold medal winner.  This is doen out of respect, not out of allegiance or as a political statement.

And they should. 

A track runner from Nigeria shouldn't be making a statement on the political situation in Canada by not standing.

This isn't an international event where respecting other nations is inherent in the competition. Along the same lines, that's why the Egyptian/Israeli tiff was newsworthy. Cultural/political/religious differences spilled over into a competition where, at its heart, athletes are supposed to come in and put all that stuff at the door.

So, the Olympics are irrelevant in this discussion.

NASCAR or the NBA? Sure. But Olympics and the NFL are apples and oranges.

Quote:I suppose the gestalt protest mindset has a lot to do with it.  Lots of people thinking they're making a difference, sound and fury signifying nothing.  A paramedic or firefighter on shift right now will make more of a difference tonight than most of these NFL players will in their entire lives.  I suppose when you get paid millions to play a game you need to convince yourself you're more important than you really are.

Maybe if they feel the need to have an impact, they should volunteer their time. Some do, but no idea how many.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-25-2017, 11:54 AM)Benton Wrote: I'm not aware of May calling out NFL players. Trump politicized the issue. Standing, or not standing, isn't about respecting the country any more. It's about politicization.

Dude, this issue was politicized long before Trump joined the fray.  He certainly ramped up the amplitude but he didn't create the situation. 

Quote:And they should. 

A track runner from Nigeria shouldn't be making a statement on the political situation in Canada by not standing.

This isn't an international event where respecting other nations is inherent in the competition. Along the same lines, that's why the Egyptian/Israeli tiff was newsworthy. Cultural/political/religious differences spilled over into a competition where, at its heart, athletes are supposed to come in and put all that stuff at the door.

So, the Olympics are irrelevant in this discussion.

NASCAR or the NBA? Sure. But Olympics and the NFL are apples and oranges.

The situation is different, to be sure.  The showing of respect for the country represented by the flag is not.  I don't care if some fool burns the flag, steps on it, urinates on it, whatever.  The country is not the flag.  But understand that such disrespect for the flag inherently shows disrespect for the country it represents.  To many they are inseparable.

Quote:Maybe if they feel the need to have an impact, they should volunteer their time. Some do, but no idea how many.

Point being, it's a lazy way to pretend you're making a difference.  You're not, at least not in the way you state as your objective.  This protest hasn't been about racial injustice for a long time, and I doubt it will ever again be perceived as such by many.

[BmorePat87]

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/09/26/steelers-anthem-flap/

Villanueva clarified that he did not mean to be outside of the tunnel for the anthem. He wanted to see the flag at Soldier Field before going back into the tunnel with the team. He asked a security guard how long he had before the anthem was was told he had more time than he really did. When the anthem began to play he stopped walking back and stood there.


I guess the intent of the Steelers was to stay in the tunnel and let players either kneel or stand. Villanueva says he's a bit embarrassed because of the optics it is causing, saying he doesn't want to see like he was disagreeing with his teammates.

[GMDino]

(09-26-2017, 09:52 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/09/26/steelers-anthem-flap/

Villanueva clarified that he did not mean to be outside of the tunnel for the anthem. He wanted to see the flag at Soldier Field before going back into the tunnel with the team. He asked a security guard how long he had before the anthem was was told he had more time than he really did. When the anthem began to play he stopped walking back and stood there.


I guess the intent of the Steelers was to stay in the tunnel and let players either kneel or stand. Villanueva says he's a bit embarrassed because of the optics it is causing, saying he doesn't want to see like he was disagreeing with his teammates.

And the reaction to his statement prompted so of the DUMBEST posts from my friends on FB.

So I wrote this:

Quote:So the same Steeler Nation that all day Sunday loved Villenueva for being a "real" American and "the only Steeler" they will root for NOW thinks he's a liar and a traitor and weak willed for going out and saying "what the team TOLD him to say."


Un....real.

Un...friggin...real.

And Ben's a liar and everyone is a liar because YOU couldn't possibly be wrong or overreacting or simply misunderstand what happened on Sunday or what led to it.

I'm so disappointed.

Current situation on that post? Arguing over why Trump is Orange and if we can call him that if we can't call black people black. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-26-2017, 10:14 AM)GMDino Wrote: And the reaction to his statement prompted so of the DUMBEST posts from my friends on FB.

So I wrote this:





Current situation on that post? Arguing over why Trump is Orange and if we can call him that if we can't call black people black. 

As soon as I heard Villanueva making a statement supporting the right to kneel during the anthem I knew the accusations that he was being held at gunpoint by the PC police and/or was a traitor were soon to follow.  Support the troops, my arse.  

Lordy, just think back to a year ago when the country was excited to elect Trump because that would usher in an America where people would be free to offend and upset without public opinion shaming them for it.  Fast forward and our president is leading the "Hey everyone, you NEED to get super offended!" charge.  Fun stuff.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-26-2017, 10:23 AM)Nately120 Wrote: As soon as I heard Villanueva making a statement supporting the right to kneel during the anthem I knew the accusations that he was being held at gunpoint by the PC police and/or was a traitor were soon to follow.  Support the troops, my arse.  

Lordy, just think back to a year ago when the country was excited to elect Trump because that would usher in an America where people would be free to offend and upset without public opinion shaming them for it.  Fast forward and our president is leading the "Hey everyone, you NEED to get super offended!" charge.  Fun stuff.

He was just being a good teammate. Tomlin probably thought it was a bad look for the people who wanted to kneel if anyone stood up. Villanueva was just diffusing and being a good teammate.