Government Shut Down

[GMDino]

Trump said it will be all the Democrats fault because...illegal aliens.

Discuss.

[*bfine32*]

Well the position does have some merit as Democrats are the ones that have introduced protection for the immigrants into the budget equation. It reminds me of the last shutdown when the GOP insisted repeal of the ACA be part of the equation.

As to the actual shutdown; I'm of the opinion that they will kick the can further down the road

[GMDino]

(12-06-2017, 06:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well the position does have some merit as Democrats are the ones that have introduced protection for the immigrants into the budget equation. It reminds me of the last shutdown when the GOP insisted repeal of the ACA be part of the equation.

As to the actual shutdown; I'm of the opinion that they will kick the can further down the road

Agreed.  Did the GOP have control of congress then though?  

Point too though is that sooner of later Trump is going to have to own something that isn't going right.

[Belsnickel]

(12-06-2017, 10:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Agreed.  Did the GOP have control of congress then though?  

Point too though is that sooner of later Trump is going to have to own something that isn't going right.

If there is a government shut down it will be the first time in the modern era that the shutdown has occurred under a unified government. For "the great deal maker" to be unable to make a deal like this with control of every branch of government is a joke.

This, of course, could have all been resolved had Congress, oh, I don't know, passed a budget. It is, after all, one of the primary functions of Congress, to fund our government. How long have they had Trump's proposed budget? It has bothered me for years how much reliance they have had on CRs like this rather than just doing a flipping budget.

[*bfine32*]

(12-07-2017, 10:06 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: If there is a government shut down it will be the first time in the modern era that the shutdown has occurred under a unified government. For "the great deal maker" to be unable to make a deal like this with control of every branch of government is a joke.

This, of course, could have all been resolved had Congress, oh, I don't know, passed a budget. It is, after all, one of the primary functions of Congress, to fund our government. How long have they had Trump's proposed budget? It has bothered me for years how much reliance they have had on CRs like this rather than just doing a flipping budget.

And no one side is immune from the petty politics that play with people's lives. We will see them kick the can down the road today; most likely until the 22nd of December and then they will threaten each other with a shutdown over the holiday recess and will most likely kick the can down the road again. Then on the 3rd attempt they will pass a budget and both sides will claim victory for caring about the common folk.

The uncertainty they are putting many folks through during the Holiday season is unforgiveable; all the while they are secure in the fact that they will get paid regardless.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-07-2017, 10:06 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: If there is a government shut down it will be the first time in the modern era that the shutdown has occurred under a unified government. For "the great deal maker" to be unable to make a deal like this with control of every branch of government is a joke.

Is that the narrative that will be used to blame Repubs instead of Dems?  

Repubs control the Senate, but they don't have nearly 60 votes. 

[Belsnickel]

(12-07-2017, 11:35 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And no one side is immune from the petty politics that play with people's lives. We will see them kick the can down the road today; most likely until the 22nd of December and then they will threaten each other with a shutdown over the holiday recess and will most likely kick the can down the road again. Then on the 3rd attempt they will pass a budget and both sides will claim victory for caring about the common folk.

The uncertainty they are putting many folks through during the Holiday season is unforgiveable; all the while they are secure in the fact that they will get paid regardless.

I don't disagree at all (though their paychecks from the government won't get cut, they have enough money from other sources that will keep them fat and happy).

(12-07-2017, 11:55 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Is that the narrative that will be used to blame Repubs instead of Dems?  

Repubs control the Senate, but they don't have nearly 60 votes. 

I blame all of them for the inability to come together and actually craft decent policy. But let's not forget that McConnell can blow up the filibuster at any time. The GOP could pass a CR and a budget without any Dem input, but it's the political game that is preventing them from doing it as well as the concern over their own caucus members splitting from them.

[GMDino]

This was fun.  From December 6, 2012

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/debt-ceiling-mitch-mcconnell_n_2251515.html

Quote:Debt Ceiling Bluff Called By Harry Reid, Leaving Mitch McConnell To Filibuster Himself

WASHINGTON — A move to embarrass Democrats backfired on Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell Thursday as the Kentucky Republican proposed a vote on raising the nation’s debt ceiling — then filibustered it when the Democrats tried to take him up on the offer.

On Thursday morning McConnell had made a motion for the vote on legislation that would let the president extend the country’s borrowing limit on his own. Congress would then have the option to disapprove such hikes, in a fashion similar to one that McConnell first suggested during last year’s standoff over the debt ceiling.


The minority leader apparently did not think Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) would take him up on his offer, which would have allowed McConnell to portray President Barack Obama’s desire for such authority as something even Democrats opposed.


Reid objected at first, but told McConnell he thought it might be a good idea. After Senate staff reviewed the proposal, Reid came back to the floor and proposed a straight up-or-down vote on the idea.


McConnell was forced to say no.


“What we’re talking about here is a perpetual debt ceiling grant, in effect, to the president, “ McConnell said. “Matters of this level of controversy always require 60 votes.”


Sixty votes are required to end a filibuster during debate on a bill and hold a vote.


Democrats immediately seized on McConnell’s reversal, noting it was the sort of obstruction that they think warrants changes to the rules on filibusters.


“What we have here is a case of the Republicans here in the Senate once again not taking yes for an answer,” Reid said. “This morning the Republican leader asked consent to have a vote on his proposal. Just now I told everyone we’re willing to have that vote, an up-or-down vote, and now the Republican leader objects to his own idea, so I guess we have a filibuser of his own bill.”


Democrats piled on.


Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) told reporters that McConnell thought he’d thrown Democrats for a loop. “It was a little too clever by half,” Schumer said, adding that it “would have been a great moment.”


“Sen. McConnell’s usually astute political radar was a bit off today,” Schumer said.


“This may be a moment in Senate history when a senator made a proposal and, when given an opportunity for a vote on that proposal, filibustered his own proposal,” said Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.). “I think we have reached a new spot in the history of the Senate we’ve never seen before.”


“I don’t know how the Republicans can say they’re not abusing the filibuster after what we saw on the floor today,” Durbin told reporters. 
“It’s somewhat comic, but sad as well, that we’ve reached the point where Sen. McConnell will not even accept a majority vote on his own measure.”


Democrats did, however, take up a previous offer by McConnell on a vote that he seemed to think would fail, which he then declined to filibuster. In July the Senate voted to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for 98 percent of earners, but not for the richest 2 percent.

The passage of the bill has put significant pressure on Republicans in the House, who are opposed to letting any of the tax cuts expire.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-07-2017, 07:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: This was fun.  From December 6, 2012

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/debt-ceiling-mitch-mcconnell_n_2251515.html

It's also irrelevant.  Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation. As for the current budget, just get rid of the filibuster already.  The majority party should have control, either they do well and they stay in power, or they blow it and the other side gets a chance.  The minority party being able to hold the nation hostage is inane, whichever party it is.

[Belsnickel]

They've extended things until 22 December. Then we're back at it.

[GMDino]

(12-07-2017, 10:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They've extended things until 22 December. Then we're back at it.

They won't be on their month long holiday break by then?

[Belsnickel]

(12-07-2017, 10:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: They won't be on their month long holiday break by then?

Apparently not. They are planning to spend the time between now and then working out the details and have something ready to vote on by then.

[GMDino]

(12-07-2017, 10:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Apparently not. They are planning to spend the time between now and then working out the details and have something ready to vote on by then.

While working on the tax overhaul?  They're gonna have to vote themselves some kind of raise for working that hard!

Edit: Suppose to close down next week.

http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/2017_the_hill_congressional_calendar.pdf

Surprised they didn't try to wrap it up by then.