Grope a dope: Trump is on the ropes now

[Belsnickel]

(10-11-2016, 01:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Trump said "They let you do it." That's the very definition of consent. Ergo, Trump was NOT talking about sexual assault. His comments were lewd and lascivious, to be sure, and certainly not something a presidential candidate should ever have said. But the comments were not about sexual assault.

I apologize if this helps Trump but I know how important facts are to some of you.

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I posted this earlier in the thread:

(10-09-2016, 08:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So kissing someone or grabbing their genitals without having consent to do so first is not sexual assault? He said he had done that. More often than not a woman in that situation will freeze up if it is unwanted touching out of fear. Someone that is sexually aggressive will consider that to be letting him do what he wants, but in reality it is completely unwanted.

Do we know for certain that the incident(s) he described was/were not consensual? No. We know that he has been accused multiple times of sexual assault, and statistics would say that his actions being described we likely not consensual. That's why a lot of people are calling this sexual assault, because the use of celebrity/authority in that situation is a coercive act. Women in that situation overwhelmingly freeze up rather than fight their assailant off, and then they often don't report it for a number of reasons.

This is why people are referring to it as sexual assault. Because taking those actions without waiting for consent, which he states he did not do, is more often than not sexual assault.

[*bfine32*]

(10-11-2016, 02:33 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I would guess that the ones who didn't let him kiss them were the ones that didn't consent.

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Nope, you got the system wrong. It is guilty until proven innocent. We must assume Trump is guilty of Sexual harrasment until he can prove he is not. You need to open your mind more.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-11-2016, 02:43 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If he kisses them without waiting when did they consent?

Is he kissing blind ladies? As soon as his face gets too close, the unconsenting women will move away from him and/or do whatever it takes to demonstrate they do not want Trump-kisses.

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[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-11-2016, 02:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, you got the system wrong. It is guilty until proven innocent. We must assume Trump is guilty of Sexual harrasment until he can prove he is not. You need to open your mind more.

You have a degree in human resources, correct?

If you kiss one of your subordinates "without waiting" and that subordinates doesn't say or do anything to suggest what you just did was unwelcomed, does their action or lack of action imply consent to being kissed by you, their boss?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-11-2016, 02:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I posted this earlier in the thread:


Do we know for certain that the incident(s) he described was/were not consensual? No. We know that he has been accused multiple times of sexual assault, and statistics would say that his actions being described we likely not consensual. That's why a lot of people are calling this sexual assault, because the use of celebrity/authority in that situation is a coercive act. Women in that situation overwhelmingly freeze up rather than fight their assailant off, and then they often don't report it for a number of reasons.

This is why people are referring to it as sexual assault. Because taking those actions without waiting for consent, which he states he did not do, is more often than not sexual assault.

I would agree with the authority part but not the celebrity part. A celebrity has no authority over you whatsoever and unless the celebrity coerced you into having sex, then sexual relations with a celebrity is not automatically sexual assault.

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[Vas Deferens]

(10-11-2016, 02:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes:

Hey everybody, Vas F***s Himself.

ahhh.  you're such a little sweetie.  a twisted, deranged, self-mutilation focused little sweetie pie.

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-11-2016, 02:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: WTF, over?

If you assume there was no consent . . . then there was consent?

If Trump is as big of a rapist as you guys are making him out to be, why didn't he start kissing that woman when they got off the bus? Trump wouldn't even go as far as to give her a hug. Bush had to TELL HER to give him a hug. As a matter of fact, Trump didnt even mention to her anything about her appearence. Yet somehow you guys think it's undeniably true this man sexually assaults women.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-11-2016, 02:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Is he kissing blind ladies? As soon as his face gets too close, the unconsenting women will move away from him and/or do whatever it takes to demonstrate they do not want Trump-kisses.

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Bingo. 

This is the heart of the matter. You don't even know what consent is. Many victims of work place sexual harassment and/or assault may not speak out for fear of retaliation. If you kiss one of your co-workers and they don't object that doesn't mean they "let you do it."

[*bfine32*]

(10-11-2016, 02:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I would agree with the authority part but not the celebrity part. A celebrity has no authority over you whatsoever and unless the celebrity coerced you into having sex, then sexual relations with a celebrity is not automatically sexual assault.

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It's just more embellishment to tip the unjustified scales to guilty. In Trump's own words he said "because you're a star", nowhere did he say "because I'm there boss"

I would like someone to explain exactly what is consent to being kissed, because, I'm here to tell you I've kissed a girl or 2 in my time without first asking "may I"

[Belsnickel]

(10-11-2016, 02:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I would agree with the authority part but not the celebrity part. A celebrity has no authority over you whatsoever and unless the celebrity coerced you into having sex, then sexual relations with a celebrity is not automatically sexual assault.

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You may not agree with it, but celebrity in today's society is a form of authority. Perceived authority in that position is just as real as legitimate authority.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-11-2016, 02:58 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Bingo. 

This is the heart of the matter. You don't even know what consent is. Many victims of work place sexual harassment and/or assault may not speak out for fear of retaliation. If you kiss one of your co-workers and they don't object that doesn't mean they "let you do it."

Yes they did. It's called tacit consent. If you don't want someone to do something to you, you stop them.

Note that i recognize the law may say something different, so I may be speaking more philosophically rather then legally. But considering we're not talking about actual events ...

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[BmorePat87]

(10-11-2016, 02:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: WTF, over?

If you assume there was no consent . . . then there was consent?

We're suppose to believe that he never actually says anything he says. 

His running mate tells us so. His surrogates tell us so. Even his supporters tell us so. We're asked to accept bizarre arguments and distorted versions of reality.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-11-2016, 03:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You may not agree with it, but celebrity in today's society is a form of authority. Perceived authority in that position is just as real as legitimate authority.

Gotcha. Everytime a celebrity has sex with a non celebrity it's sexual assault.

I'm surprised there aren't more celebrities being arrested for sexual assault.

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[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-11-2016, 02:58 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: If Trump is as big of a rapist as you guys are making him out to be, why didn't he start kissing that woman when they got off the bus? Trump wouldn't even go as far as to give her a hug. Bush had to TELL HER to give him a hug. As a matter of fact, Trump didnt even mention to her anything about her appearence. Yet somehow you guys think it's undeniably true this man sexually assaults women.

Why?  Because he knew the cameras were recording then. Duh!  He asked for tic tacs in case he started kissing her while still on the bus unaware he was being recorded. It's the same reason which prompted his denial on a nationally televised presidential debate.

Let me ask you, when do you think he would be likely to tell the truth about such alleged behavior?  When he was unaware he was being recorded or when he knew he was on television?

[*bfine32*]

(10-11-2016, 03:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You may not agree with it, but celebrity in today's society is a form of authority. Perceived authority in that position is just as real as legitimate authority.

This sounds kind of made up.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-11-2016, 03:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I may be speaking more philosophically rather then legally. But considering we're not talking about actual events ...

No shit, Sherlock. 

Is a philosopher going to get you off the hook for grabbing someone's ***** in a court of law?

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-11-2016, 02:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: A President shouldn't commit or claim to commit sexual assault.... because it's a heinous crime that violates the dignity of others. 

Sorry, I didn't realize I had to explain why sexual assault itself was bad.

How predictable. You dodge the question and make a statement about why sexual assault is bad as if Trump has actually comitted it.

Youre doing constant dodging. My question was not "Why should Donald Trump not be president after committing sexual assault". My question was how does making the sexual remarks he made make him unfit to be president. You're answering the question by claiming Trump committed sexual assault yet have no proof of this.

[BmorePat87]

(10-11-2016, 03:14 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: How predictable. You dodge the question and make a statement about why sexual assault is bad as if Trump has actually comitted it.

Youre doing constant dodging. My question was not "Why should Donald Trump not be president after committing sexual assault". My question was how does making the sexual remarks he made make him unfit to be president. You're answering the question by claiming Trump committed sexual assault yet have no proof of this.

I answered it three times, elaborating each time when you asked me to. He claims he did these things. I tailored my question so that it addressed why actually doing these things or claiming you have makes you unfit to be President. 

If you disagree, that's fine, but stop being a child by repeating that I didn't answer the question. 

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-11-2016, 03:09 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Why?  Because he knew the cameras were recording then. Duh!  He asked for tic tacs in case he started kissing her while still on the bus unaware he was being recorded. It's the same reason which prompted his denial on a nationally televised presidential debate.

Let me ask you, when do you think he would be likely to tell the truth about such alleged behavior?  When he was unaware he was being recorded or when he knew he was on television?

So he had to wait for Bush to give them permission before he hugs her and kisses her on the cheek because the cameras are watching? Give me a break. Men "welcome" themselves to women like this all the time on live television without permission yet for some reason the big ol' rapist Donald Trump who can't control himself around beautiful women had to wait for Bush to initiate any sort of physical contact between them and didn't even bother to tall her how good she looks.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-11-2016, 03:14 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: How predictable. You dodge the question and make a statement about why sexual assault is bad as if Trump has actually comitted it.

Youre doing constant dodging. My question was not "Why should Donald Trump not be president after committing sexual assault". My question was how does making the sexual remarks he made make him unfit to be president. You're answering the question by claiming Trump committed sexual assault yet have no proof of this.

No proof other than listening to a recording of him stating he grabs ***** and they "let" him do anything he wants because he is a celebrity?