Grope a dope: Trump is on the ropes now

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-09-2016, 03:17 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: While Trump wasn't running for President in 2005, keep in mind he was 59 years old at the time. This is well past the age when lessons are learned from such 'youthful indiscretions'. To suggest that everybody has done something at some point in their life hardly excuses this level of disrespect from a 59 year old husband, father, and business leader.

You're trying to throw his age around as if older people don't do or say bad things. 59 year olds can be just as careless about the things that they say as 19 year olds, especially when that 59 year old is in such a position of power as Trump.

You mention that Trump is 59 years old. Okay, well lets dig a little deeper and look at the context of the scenario then. Trump was a 59 year old man who was on a bus having a private one-on-one conversation with Billy Bush, who was at that time 33 years old and obviously the much younger and handsomer of the two. So you have an old guy talking to a young guy about women and this old guy makes some offensive sexual remarks when talking to this younger guy. Wow. How surprising.

I'll tell you right now that I am 26 years old, and I have talked to quite a few older men or at least been in the vicinity of the conversation, and hear similar remarks come out of their mouths about how many women they slept with or how they got with this woman or that woman. It's not surprising to me that a man his age would say something like that, or any man really because men have a dominance factor to them and men are always trying to ONE UP each other or sound "cooler" or "sexier" when it comes to their sexual endeavors. It's how men have always been and how men will always be.

Trump said it was "locker room banter" and that's pretty much what it was. Two dudes trying to act macho around each other. I'm not surprised in the least bit.

[CageTheBengal]

(10-07-2016, 10:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems like a lot of self-righteous in the house. Any male that hasn't objectified a woman with a pal in what you thought was a private conversation raise your hand.

WTS, this is not a good look and I can see the GOP going into spin mode Let's hope they bring in Allen West.

LMAO at Hills being appalled by such talk.

I have never spoken about a woman that way that I can recall. It's despicable and low-brow to do it period. Just because you say something in private doesn't mean it's okay and it still reflects on your values.

Maybe I have just drank the PC koolaid.

[6andcounting]

As stupid of a controversy as it is, no politician by trade could have possibly survived something like this.

[BmorePat87]

(10-09-2016, 07:43 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: You're trying to throw his age around as if older people don't do or say bad things. 59 year olds can be just as careless about the things that they say as 19 year olds, especially when that 59 year old is in such a position of power as Trump.

You mention that Trump is 59 years old. Okay, well lets dig a little deeper and look at the context of the scenario then. Trump was a 59 year old man who was on a bus having a private one-on-one conversation with Billy Bush, who was at that time 33 years old and obviously the much younger and handsomer of the two. So you have an old guy talking to a young guy about women and this old guy makes some offensive sexual remarks when talking to this younger guy. Wow. How surprising.

I'll tell you right now that I am 26 years old, and I have talked to quite a few older men or at least been in the vicinity of the conversation, and hear similar remarks come out of their mouths about how many women they slept with or how they got with this woman or that woman. It's not surprising to me that a man his age would say something like that, or any man really because men have a dominance factor to them and men are always trying to ONE UP each other or sound "cooler" or "sexier" when it comes to their sexual endeavors. It's how men have always been and how men will always be.

Trump said it was "locker room banter" and that's pretty much what it was. Two dudes trying to act macho around each other. I'm not surprised in the least bit.

There's a difference between saying you want to sleep with someone or have slept with them and saying that you can sexually assault women because they won't say anything. 

I have no clue who you support, and I won't accuse you of supporting Trump, but this is a common strategy of his supporters. You downplay what he said/did and suggest it's equivalent to something far tamer. 

The funny part is that the response to women mentioning sexual assault and rape culture is "not all men". The defense of Trump mentioning sexual assault is "all men". 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2016, 07:44 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I have never spoken about a woman that way that I can recall. It's despicable and low-brow to do it period. Just because you say something in private doesn't mean it's okay and it still reflects on your values.

Maybe I have just drank the PC koolaid.

Nope, you're just a saint.

An example of my "poor values": I was watching the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics with a friend. There was a pretty famous woman that did a mile-long catwalk. Both me and my friend made comments other than I'm sure she has a nice personality. 

May have even suggested that bfine might bravely go to places where Tom has only scratched the surface. So I made comments about having sexual relations with a married woman while me being married myself. Where we just talking shit? Sure, but if many here would have been present I would have been accused of rape. 

Has Trump ever did what he said he could do (grab in the no-no or just start kissing beautiful)? Who knows. But somehow you defend such comments if you do not draw unfounded conclusions and compare him to a rapist. 

Until I see further evidence I'll chalk it up to a couple guys talking shit. The fact that I don't consider him a molester and rapist because of them makes me less open-minded that most I suppose.  

[GMDino]

(10-09-2016, 07:39 PM)6andcounting Wrote: If he actually did it and it wasn't consensual.

He says he did.  A lawsuit said it wasn't.

[GMDino]

(10-09-2016, 07:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, you're just a saint.

An example of my "poor values": I was watching the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics with a friend. There was a pretty famous woman that did a mile-long catwalk. Both me and my friend made comments other than I'm sure she has a nice personality. 

May have even suggested that bfine might bravely go to places where Tom has only scratched the surface. So I made comments about having sexual relations with a married woman while me being married myself. Where we just talking shit? Sure, but if many here would have been present I would have been accused of rape. 

Has Trump ever did what he said he could do (grab in the no-no or just start kissing beautiful)? Who knows. But somehow you defend such comments if you do not draw unfounded conclusions and compare him to a rapist. 

Until I see further evidence I'll chalk it up to a couple guys talking shit. The fact that I don't consider him a molester and rapist because of them makes me less open-minded that most I suppose.  

Seriously...I am being completely sincere with this question:

How did you read the transcript or watch the video and hear his own words and NOT take it as he had done it before?

Quote:Unknown: "She used to be great, she's still very beautiful."

Trump: "I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it. I did try and **** her, she was married."
Unknown: "That's huge news there."
Trump: "No, no, Nancy. No this was [inaudible] and I moved on her very heavily in fact I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said I'll show you where they have some nice furniture. I moved on her like a *****. I couldn't get there and she was married. Then all-of-a-sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look."
Bush: "Your girl's hot as shit. In the purple."
Multiple voices: "Whoah. Yes. Whoah."
Bush: "Yes. The Donald has scored. Whoah my man."
Trump: "Look at you. You are a *****."
Bush: "You gotta get the thumbs up."
Trump: "Maybe it's a different one."
Bush: "It better not be the publicist. No, it's, it's her."
Trump: "Yeah that's her with the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."
Bush: "Whatever you want."
Trump: "Grab them by the *****. You can do anything."

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-09-2016, 07:51 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There's a difference between saying you want to sleep with someone or have slept with them and saying that you can sexually assault women because they won't say anything. 

I have no clue who you support, and I won't accuse you of supporting Trump, but this is a common strategy of his supporters. You downplay what he said/did and suggest it's equivalent to something far tamer. 

The funny part is that the response to women mentioning sexual assault and rape culture is "not all men". The defense of Trump mentioning sexual assault is "all men". 

I don't support either of them, but if it came down to it I would rather Trump be president than Hillary.

With that said, I would like to respond to your comparative statement and say that there's a difference between saying you can grab a woman in her private area and actually sexually assaulting a woman. People like to throw around phrases like "sexual assault" to escalate things to a more serious level than they actually know. People want to act like they know what Trump has done, but the truth is people have absolutely no idea. It's all a bunch of wishful thinking and politics.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2016, 08:08 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: People like to throw around phrases like "sexual assault" to escalate things to a more serious level than they actually know. People want to act like they know what Trump has done, but the truth is people have absolutely no idea. It's all a bunch of wishful thinking and politics.

In some warped existence it is called being open-minded. 

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-09-2016, 07:51 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The funny part is that the response to women mentioning sexual assault and rape culture is "not all men". The defense of Trump mentioning sexual assault is "all men". 

Also this is a gross misinterpretation. Saying that Donald Trump's remarks are typical of men is not the same as saying all men commit sexual assault.

[Belsnickel]

(10-09-2016, 08:08 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I don't support either of them, but if it came down to it I would rather Trump be president than Hillary.

With that said, I would like to respond to your comparative statement and say that there's a difference between saying you can grab a woman in her private area and actually sexually assaulting a woman. People like to throw around phrases like "sexual assault" to escalate things to a more serious level than they actually know. People want to act like they know what Trump has done, but the truth is people have absolutely no idea. It's all a bunch of wishful thinking and politics.

So kissing someone or grabbing their genitals without having consent to do so first is not sexual assault? He said he had done that. More often than not a woman in that situation will freeze up if it is unwanted touching out of fear. Someone that is sexually aggressive will consider that to be letting him do what he wants, but in reality it is completely unwanted.

[CageTheBengal]

(10-09-2016, 07:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, you're just a saint.

An example of my "poor values": I was watching the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics with a friend. There was a pretty famous woman that did a mile-long catwalk. Both me and my friend made comments other than I'm sure she has a nice personality. 

May have even suggested that bfine might bravely go to places where Tom has only scratched the surface. So I made comments about having sexual relations with a married woman while me being married myself. Where we just talking shit? Sure, but if many here would have been present I would have been accused of rape. 

Has Trump ever did what he said he could do (grab in the no-no or just start kissing beautiful)? Who knows. But somehow you defend such comments if you do not draw unfounded conclusions and compare him to a rapist. 

Holy crap! All you have to do to be a saint is show females the same respect as males? Those standards are pretty low and telling.

If you and your friend were talking about how you would love to have power and be famous so you could grab a woman inappropriately without consequence then that's a whole other level. That's talking about sexual assault. Believe it or not when some people talk BS with their friends they don't fantasize about cheating on their spouse.


We bounce from one extreme to the other. I'm a saint for respecting females and your accused of rape for "comments about having sexual relations with a married woman while me being married myself". Both those sound really out of touch.

Why does it matter if he actually did it? He's still speaking his mind which is a reflection of who he is a person. That's the way it works for everyone else in the world. So best case scenario is Trump said those things but didn't actually do it.

Yippee!

[xxlt]

(10-07-2016, 10:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I can honestly say with absolute certainty that I have never in my life had a conversation like that. And what needs to be mentioned, again, is that he is talking about things he has done. This is not just talk, this is his describing actions he has taken. This isn't just about objectifying women, this is about him  describing sexual assault.

And Archimedes claims about the power of levers not withstanding, as responses to this and other posts demonstrate, there is not a 2x4 big enough and hard enough to knock understanding into the skulls of those who don't understand why this is problematic. Shocking and sad as this fact is it is also at some level, as Spock used to say, "Fascinating."

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-09-2016, 08:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So kissing someone or grabbing their genitals without having consent to do so first is not sexual assault? He said he had done that. More often than not a woman in that situation will freeze up if it is unwanted touching out of fear. Someone that is sexually aggressive will consider that to be letting him do what he wants, but in reality it is completely unwanted.

Depends on what you mean by "sexual assault".

See this is the problem with this whole "sexual assault" thing. It's too open to interpretation and people can turn anything that can be considered "sexual assault" into what they want it to mean. As I have already mentioned before, people who are criticizing Trump don't know what Trump has actually done. All they know is that he said some negative things about women. They don't know what consensual and non-consensual things have happened between him and anyone else. Trump said some "rapey" comment and now everyone's shouting sexual assault.

[BmorePat87]

(10-09-2016, 08:08 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I don't support either of them, but if it came down to it I would rather Trump be president than Hillary.

With that said, I would like to respond to your comparative statement and say that there's a difference between saying you can grab a woman in her private area and actually sexually assaulting a woman. People like to throw around phrases like "sexual assault" to escalate things to a more serious level than they actually know. People want to act like they know what Trump has done, but the truth is people have absolutely no idea. It's all a bunch of wishful thinking and politics.

I agree that there's a difference between saying you could sexually assault a woman and actually sexually assaulting a woman. I responding to you comparing guys talking about people they had sex with to a guy boasting about sexual assault.

Let's be clear, what he is describing is sexual assault. 

[GMDino]

(10-09-2016, 08:41 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Depends on what you mean by "sexual assault".

See this is the problem with this whole "sexual assault" thing. It's too open to interpretation and people can turn anything that can be considered "sexual assault" into what they want it to mean. As I have already mentioned before, people who are criticizing Trump don't know what Trump has actually done. All they know is that he said some negative things about women. They don't know what consensual and non-consensual things have happened between him and anyone else. Trump said some "rapey" comment and now everyone's shouting sexual assault.

Unknown: "She used to be great, she's still very beautiful."


T

Quote:rump: "I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it. I did try and **** her, she was married."
Unknown: "That's huge news there."
Trump: "No, no, Nancy. No this was [inaudible] and I moved on her very heavily in fact I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said I'll show you where they have some nice furniture. I moved on her like a *****. I couldn't get there and she was married. Then all-of-a-sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look."
Bush: "Your girl's hot as shit. In the purple."
Multiple voices: "Whoah. Yes. Whoah."
Bush: "Yes. The Donald has scored. Whoah my man."
Trump: "Look at you. You are a *****."
Bush: "You gotta get the thumbs up."
Trump: "Maybe it's a different one."
Bush: "It better not be the publicist. No, it's, it's her."
Trump: "Yeah that's her with the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."
Bush: "Whatever you want."
Trump: "Grab them by the *****. You can do anything."

[Belsnickel]

(10-09-2016, 08:41 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Depends on what you mean by "sexual assault".

See this is the problem with this whole "sexual assault" thing. It's too open to interpretation and people can turn anything that can be considered "sexual assault" into what they want it to mean. As I have already mentioned before, people who are criticizing Trump don't know what Trump has actually done. All they know is that he said some negative things about women. They don't know what consensual and non-consensual things have happened between him and anyone else. Trump said some "rapey" comment and now everyone's shouting sexual assault.

Sexual assault is non-consensual sexual contact. Trump boasted about sexual assault. So either he carried out sexual assault and is boasting about it, or he is lying and saying he did commit sexual assault because he, for some reason, thinks that is a positive thing. Neither option is a good one.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2016, 08:41 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Depends on what you mean by "sexual assault".

Kudos to you for looking for middle-ground, but there is none to be had.

Those that did not like Trump prior to these comments will do all they can to make them seem more than they actually are; while those that liked Trump will look to mitigate them.

I tentatively place myself in the "like Trump" category; therefore, I may be making more light of the comments than they warrant. I will say and do say, if there is any proof he sexually assaulted anyone, my stance would not be one of mitigation. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2016, 08:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Sexual assault is non-consensual sexual contact. Trump boasted about sexual assault. So either he carried out sexual assault and is boasting about it, or he is lying and saying he did commit sexual assault because he, for some reason, thinks that is a positive thing. Neither option is a good one.

I hate to sound like a broken record but....

[GMDino]

(10-09-2016, 08:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Kudos to you for looking for middle-ground, but there is none to be had.

Those that did not like Trump prior to these comments will do all they can to make them seem more than they actually are; while those that liked Trump will look to mitigate them.

I tentatively place myself in the "like Trump" category; therefore, I may be making more light of the comments than they warrant. I will say and do say, if there is any proof he sexually assaulted anyone, my stance would not be one of mitigation.