Gunman At DC Pizza Parlor Was 'Investigating' Right-Wing Conspiracy 'Pizzagate' Lie

[GMDino]

We might need a "Fake news made a guy do something..." subforum for the next four years.

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/12/gunman-dc-pizza-parlor-was-investigating

Quote:On Sunday, a man with a rifle showed up at a Washington, DC pizza restaurant, threatening one employee before shooting his gun into the floor a couple of times.


It turns out he believed the lies perpetuated on Reddit and Alex Jones' site about "Pizzagate", as echoed by National Security Adviser-to-be Michael Flynn about the restaurant. According to their lies, it was really a front for a child sex-trafficking ring run by Hillary Clinton and John Podesta.

And this guy, Edgar Maddison Welch, believed it. He believed it so much, this happened:

Quote:A North Carolina man was arrested Sunday after he walked into a popular pizza restaurant in Northwest Washington carrying an assault rifle and fired one or more shots, D.C. police said. The man told police he had come to the restaurant to “self-investigate” a false election-related conspiracy theory involving Hillary Clinton that spread online during her presidential campaign.

The incident caused panic, with several businesses going into lockdown as police swarmed the neighborhood after receiving the call shortly before 3 p.m.
Police said 28-year-old Edgar Maddison Welch, of Salisbury, N.C., walked in the front door of Comet Ping Pong and pointed a firearm in the direction of a restaurant employee. The employee was able to flee and notify police. Police said Welch proceeded to discharge the rifle inside the restaurant; they believe all other occupants had fled when Welch began shooting.

Welch has been charged with assault with a dangerous weapon. Police said there were no reported injuries.

Fortunately, no one was hurt. But the lies are still spinning. The newest one is that he never confessed to such a thing at all, but instead it's all a -- you guessed it -- false flag.

Mike Cernovich, one of the worst purveyors of lies and spin on behalf of the extreme right wing, offered this:

Quote:There is zero evidence connecting the gunman (who gave no statement) and#pizzagate. None. This is more fake news.
— Mike Cernovich

Here's some of what Cernovich and his Reddit pals did ahead of this incident:

Quote:↓ Story continues below ↓

The restaurant’s owner and employees were threatened on social media in the days before the election after fake news stories circulated claiming that then-Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton and her campaign chief were running a child sex ring from the restaurant’s backrooms. Even Michael Flynn, a retired general whom President-elect Trump has tapped to advise him on national security, shared stories about another anti-Clinton conspiracy theory involving pedophilia. None of them were true. But the fake stories and threats persisted, some even aimed at children of Comet Ping Pong employees and patrons. The restaurant’s owner was forced to contact the FBI, local police, Facebook and other social-media platforms in an effort to remove the articles.

I expect there will be many more lies, many more nuts with guns ready to "defend" the lies and lying liars, and of course, the top liar will be residing in the White House.

It's going to be a long four years.

[BmorePat87]

I was about to post this since it has been all over our local news.

Flynn pushed this story before and one of Podesta being involved in satanic dinners. Flynn's son, who is his advisor, said after the shooting:

“Until #Pizzagate proven to be false, it'll remain a story. The left seems to forget #PodestaEmails and the many ‘coincidences’ tied to it.”


This is why I made my students read an article about not believing everything on the internet.

[6andcounting]

This picture alone and the fact that simply owning a pizza parlor makes this guy one of the 50 most powerful people in Washington is enough to confirm Pizzagate.

[hollodero]

(12-05-2016, 10:44 AM)6andcounting Wrote: This picture alone and the fact that simply owning a pizza parlor makes this guy one of the 50 most powerful people in Washington is enough to confirm Pizzagate.

Are you serious? (just curious)

[GMDino]

(12-05-2016, 10:44 AM)6andcounting Wrote: This picture alone and the fact that simply owning a pizza parlor makes this guy one of the 50 most powerful people in Washington is enough to confirm Pizzagate.

That Shamwow guy went downhill after prison....

[BmorePat87]

It's sad that Flynn is still pushing this conspiracy theory considering he was once in charge of military intelligence.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Guy is clearly a bit nuts, but from what I read, it didn't look like he intended to kill anyone. Read he let everyone flee, and then fired shots. Then surrendered peacefully when the police surrounded the building.

Maybe in his craziness, he thought if he did that, then the police would search the building and if there were kids, they'd be found? Who knows. As I said, nuts, but at least didn't seem to want to kill anyone.

Take the positives where you can get them in 2016. Lol

[fredtoast]

This morning on CNN when confronted with Michael Flynn's tweet about Pizzagate a Trump spokesperson accused CNN of reporting "fake news" when they predicted that Hillary would win the election.

Politicians on both sides have always tried to spin facts in their own favor, but it looks like Trump is going to take it to a new level by posting flat out lies e.g. millions of illegals voted for Hillary, and expecting people to believe him.

[BmorePat87]

(12-05-2016, 02:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Politicians on both sides have always tried to spin facts in their own favor, but it looks like Trump is going to take it to a new level by posting flat out lies e.g. millions of illegals voted for Hillary, and expecting people to believe him.

Pence and Priebus both said it was "possible" that Trump was right. Pence said Trump  has a "right to express his opinion" and it's "refreshing" that he can speak from his mind. When asked what was refreshing about making false statements, Pence responded "I don't know that is a false statement and neither do you". 

Priebus said that he doesn't know "if it's not true" and that there are estimates all over the map and no one really knows. When asked if a President can just offer theories with no evidence, Priebus says that Trump is doing a great job at pushing the envelope to make people think and not accept conventional thought. 

The common defense has been "Prove it's not true". 

[Benton]

What's scarier than an armed guy in the wrong place firing shots because he believed intentionally misleading fiction?

The fact that some people still think there's nothing wrong with intentionally misleading fiction cast as news.

Of course, this isn't anything new. Not even by presidents. But it is discouraging how blatant and accepted it's become.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-05-2016, 03:36 PM)Benton Wrote: What's scarier than an armed guy in the wrong place firing shots because he believed intentionally misleading fiction?

The fact that some people still think there's nothing wrong with intentionally misleading fiction cast as news.

Of course, this isn't anything new. Not even by presidents. But it is discouraging how blatant and accepted it's become.

Intentionally misleading fiction cast as news is wrong. Agreed 100%.

That said, once you start passing laws and such deciding what can and can't be printed, it starts becoming a slippery slope.

Kind of like flag burners. Probably one of the worst kinds of protesters out there and I can't agree with it at all. That said, I will never do anything about it because it is legally protected through their free speech. Same with Colin Kapernick kneeling during the national anthem. I think he's an idiot (who's never registered in his life to vote), but it's his right to be an idiot.

So while I would be all on board for finding some way to reduce/get rid of fake news, I am not sure how you could go about doing it in a manner that doesn't risk future government censorship of media. Remember that while 99% of conspiracy theories are totally bullshit, there's always those random ones that oddly/terrifyingly enough turn out to be true.

-The Manhattan Project was a conspiracy theory at first. It would have been easy to call that fake news then.
-The CIA never did mind control experiments... until a FoIA request pulled up MK-Ultra.
etc

Just focus on teaching children critical thinking skills and logic ability while they are in school and hopefully they will have the capacity to differentiate the two.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Would you say that's about as Looney as Climate Change? We can't prove that we are the cause of that either.

[Benton]

(12-05-2016, 03:56 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Intentionally misleading fiction cast as news is wrong. Agreed 100%.

That said, once you start passing laws and such deciding what can and can't be printed, it starts becoming a slippery slope.

Kind of like flag burners. Probably one of the worst kinds of protesters out there and I can't agree with it at all. That said, I will never do anything about it because it is legally protected through their free speech. Same with Colin Kapernick kneeling during the national anthem. I think he's an idiot (who's never registered in his life to vote), but it's his right to be an idiot.

So while I would be all on board for finding some way to reduce/get rid of fake news, I am not sure how you could go about doing it in a manner that doesn't risk future government censorship of media. Remember that while 99% of conspiracy theories are totally bullshit, there's always those random ones that oddly/terrifyingly enough turn out to be true.

-The Manhattan Project was a conspiracy theory at first. It would have been easy to call that fake news then.
-The CIA never did mind control experiments... until a FoIA request pulled up MK-Ultra.
etc

Just focus on teaching children critical thinking skills and logic ability while they are in school and hopefully they will have the capacity to differentiate the two.

I agree, and (as I make my living off the 1st) I don't want to see any reduction in freedom of speech.

But there is a solution, and something Trump might actually improve (although with some of his appointments, that's more unlikely since they'd get hit). Litigation.

Slander and libel aren't hard to win in court, but the penalties are fairly watered down. Make them bigger. Remove the causal requirements for loss of income, or allow judges some leeway there. If Buzzfeed, RedState, Infowars, Breitbart, Conspiracy Wire and others started shelling out six figure checks every time they propagate headlines like "George Bush excited about owning slaves" or "Clinton vows to confiscate guns," then you'd see fake news stories dry up. Misleading or not reporting an issue is one thing and real media takes its lumps (deservingly so) for it. But real media needs to take a step forward and litigate fake news the same way it gets litigated if it prints false stories.

[hollodero]

(12-05-2016, 04:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Would you say that's about as Looney as Climate Change? We can't prove that we are the cause of that either.

That's just no valid comparison whatsoever.

There is overwhelming evidence that humankind causes global warming. 97% of scientists do agree. By calling that "looney" - just like every completely made up story - you deny tons of evidence, carefully modeled studies and the evaluation of de facto all scientists. 

There's no way to sustain that "looney" view without in the end claiming that 97% of scientists are corrupted and lieing - or at least (the very least) are incompetent, stupid and don't understand their stuff at all. You're willing to say any of that? 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-05-2016, 04:59 PM)hollodero Wrote: That's just no valid comparison whatsoever.

There is overwhelming evidence that humankind causes global warming. 97% of scientists do agree. By calling that "looney" - just like every completely made up story - you deny tons of evidence, carefully modeled studies and the evaluation of de facto all scientists. 

There's no way to sustain that "looney" view without in the end claiming that 97% of scientists are corrupted and lieing - or at least (the very least) are incompetent, stupid and don't understand their stuff at all. You're willing to say any of that? 

Not hopping in one side or the other on this debate right now, but I do want to point out that 97% isn't all scientists, it is climate scientists.

Unclear if that's more or less convincing of a number then, but I do feel it's an important distinction considering rather than talking about all scientists who might have no financial motive involved in their opinion, you're instead talking about a specific group, who while it's their specialization, are also financially dependent upon Global Warming being a thing. I am sure 97% of oil lobbyists will say Global Warming isn't a thing. Why? Their job depends on it.

It's the same reason why everything known to man these days has been "possibly linked to cancer" by "a study". Scientists don't get paid research grants to find nothing, or if they do, they don't continue to get paid if they said "Nope, nothing here."

Always gotta be cautious when there's heavy financial motive involved.

[hollodero]

(12-05-2016, 05:15 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not hopping in one side or the other on this debate right now, but I do want to point out that 97% isn't all scientists, it is climate scientists.

Unclear if that's more or less convincing of a number then, but I do feel it's an important distinction considering rather than talking about all scientists who might have no financial motive involved in their opinion, you're instead talking about a specific group, who while it's their specialization, are also financially dependent upon Global Warming being a thing. I am sure 97% of oil lobbyists will say Global Warming isn't a thing. Why? Their job depends on it.

It's the same reason why everything known to man these days has been "possibly linked to cancer" by "a study". Scientists don't get paid research grants to find nothing, or if they do, they don't continue to get paid if they said "Nope, nothing here."

Always gotta be cautious when there's heavy financial motive involved.

Nothing you said is inherently untrue.

Don't forget though that being a climate sceptic also does pay quite nicely. Whilst the climate change scientists often reside in a real scientific background, e.g. an university or another research facility. Sure they live off climate change, which per se is no proof whatsoever that climate change isn't real.

And whenever a scientist publishes results, these results get double-checked, you can't just forge or invent data/measures or publish a lie without having to fear that you get caught, discredited and lose your career. And whilst there are always some who risk it and get caught - and maybe some that risk it and don't get caught - even thinking about a money-making scam in this dimension, where almost EVERY climate scientist (btw. I don't think "non-climate scientists" are more opposed to climate change, although you're probably technically right by saying "climate scientists") would have to be in is very far fetched to me.

Just think it through. You go to university, study science, absolve that very hard education with huge motivation (or you don't make it) - just to then use that knowledge to ignore knowledge, forge data and tell a huge lie for your whole scientific life? Believe me. People in science seldomly are motivated by running a scam. They tend to love facts and the truth too much. (Plus, big big money is to be found in other fields, not in science. You're not in science for the money in the first place.)

Therefore comparing climate change to a completely made up story about whatever, like refugees committing mass rapes and police covering the deeds (just an example from here) - is highly uncalled for. The way I see it.

[BmorePat87]

(12-05-2016, 04:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Would you say that's about as Looney as Climate Change? We can't prove that we are the cause of that either.

Well the basis of one is people on the internet saying that ping pong paddles and the word "pizza" are code for pedophilia.

The basis for the other is peer reviewed studies. 

[BmorePat87]

I should probably report my school's ping pong club to the superintendent. I heard they were having a pizza party.

[Rotobeast]

(12-05-2016, 07:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I should probably report my school's ping pong club to the superintendent. I heard they were having a pizza party.

Was it Cheese Pizza ?

[fredtoast]

(12-05-2016, 05:15 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Unclear if that's more or less convincing of a number then, but I do feel it's an important distinction considering rather than talking about all scientists who might have no financial motive involved in their opinion, you're instead talking about a specific group, who while it's their specialization, are also financially dependent upon Global Warming being a thing. I am sure 97% of oil lobbyists will say Global Warming isn't a thing. Why? Their job depends on it.

It's the same reason why everything known to man these days has been "possibly linked to cancer" by "a study". Scientists don't get paid research grants to find nothing, or if they do, they don't continue to get paid if they said "Nope, nothing here."

Always gotta be cautious when there's heavy financial motive involved.

None of this is true at all.

Scientists get research funds to do research.  They do not get paid to favor one side or the other unless they are working for private companies like the oil and gas industry.  

Same with finding cancer causing agents.  There are thousands of studies done each year on all sorts of substances o see if they can be approved for use by the general public.  Scientists get paid the same if they find carcinogens or not.  If what you claimed was true then there would not have been any new medications approved ever because they would all be labeled as causing cancer.

The only climate change scientists with financial motives are the ones hired by the oil and gas industry.  Any government measures to surb global warming would actually HURT the economy.  So they have no financial motive to support global warming.