Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-09-2023, 09:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. Militant applies to both, though.

I would argue you can be a freedom fighter and still be a terrorist. One does not negate the other.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-09-2023, 09:05 PM)treee Wrote: Most Palestinians are just normal people trying to live their lives like the rest of us. 

Unfortunately they do not control the agenda. Hamas and Iran do.

[StoneTheCrow]

(10-09-2023, 08:55 PM)pally Wrote: apparently, also on his schedule today was an interview with the special counsel investigating his documents

NOW: From the WH regard Biden’s special documents case pic.twitter.com/Thrm4zSDxk

— Brian J. Karem (@BrianKarem) October 9, 2023

 

Cool. I’ve got nothing but faith he’s got his eye on the ball now that he’s got that out of his way for the day.

Onward.

[NATI BENGALS]

(10-09-2023, 08:46 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: You mean the "secrets" he shared 6 years ago about ISIS? Or are you referring to something else?

Yep. Israeli secrets. To the friend of their enemy.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/horrified-israeli-intel-officials-were-shouting-at-us-counterparts-over-trump-leak/

“the spy was also reportedly a major asset in gaining information on the actions of Iran in Syria — through its Revolutionary Guards Corps and Lebanese proxy Hezbollah,”

If they used the info to squash out an Israeli spy network. Who knows, you could have a probable cause for the intelligence failure.

[CJD]

Whether you think the attacks from Hamas are warranted or not, the one thing that was never in doubt was that this kind of attack was inevitable. You have two states that believe they have a claim to a section of land that holds significance to their people on a religious level. The more powerful/well funded/globally approved side of the conflict has been slowly confiscating land, taking away homes, imprisoning, beating, and killing thousands of people from the other side and those people, in their desperation, turned to a group of terrorists that...maybe care about them? But mostly hate the other group of people.

The Israeli government is not innocent. Neither is Hamas (obviously). The victims are the Palestinians who have been made refugees and prisoners in their own land as well as the innocent Israelis that will be killed because of the actions of the two governing bodies in this conflict that refuse to treat with each other and come to a peaceful resolution (likely because their conviction in this conflict is based entirely on religion which does not really have a strong basis in logic or pragmatism).

This entire situation is sad and pathetic and it's only getting worse because of the rigidity and hatred between the two groups of people, particularly the governing bodies.

Even with how tragic and scary these last few days are, we must not forget who the aggressors in this conflict are (or, at the least, the benefactors of the original aggressors). The only people who can stop this madness (aside from an outright extermination of the Palestinian people) reside in the government of Israel.

Unfortunately, I do not have faith that they'll suddenly decide to treat with Hamas, especially now. Unless there is a global intervention, I fear wide scale genocide may occur soon.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-09-2023, 06:01 AM)Dill Wrote: WWII is a good baseline when it comes to understanding ethnic conflict. SSF has already referenced it once.

Once fascism had been defeated, lot of people did stop to ask why it had happened, and how to prevent it from happening again.

The goal was to prevent another world war. That meant rooting out fascism in Axis countries for sure.

But it also meant looking at what happened after WWI, how treatment of Germany created conditions under which
angry young men could form mass death cults based on ideologies rooted in ethnic them/us distinctions--as well as
some soul-searching among the victorious Allies.

That was, to a degree, trying "to find reason in Hitler's actions." To prevent another Hitler.

I would not be surprised if some, at the time, thought such efforts were "apologizing" for Hitler, 

but if so, they lost the argument. That's likely why we've had no WW since then. 

But increasingly people worldwide are forgetting lessons learned.

Nobody was discussing that shit in 1944.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-10-2023, 12:54 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Whether you think the attacks from Hamas are warranted or not, the one thing that was never in doubt was that this kind of attack was inevitable. You have two states that believe they have a claim to a section of land that holds significance to their people on a religious level. The more powerful/well funded/globally approved side of the conflict has been slowly confiscating land, taking away homes, imprisoning, beating, and killing thousands of people from the other side and those people, in their desperation, turned to a group of terrorists that...maybe care about them? But mostly hate the other group of people.

The Israeli government is not innocent. Neither is Hamas (obviously). The victims are the Palestinians who have been made refugees and prisoners in their own land as well as the innocent Israelis that will be killed because of the actions of the two governing bodies in this conflict that refuse to treat with each other and come to a peaceful resolution (likely because their conviction in this conflict is based entirely on religion which does not really have a strong basis in logic or pragmatism).

This entire situation is sad and pathetic and it's only getting worse because of the rigidity and hatred between the two groups of people, particularly the governing bodies.

Even with how tragic and scary these last few days are, we must not forget who the aggressors in this conflict are (or, at the least, the benefactors of the original aggressors). The only people who can stop this madness (aside from an outright extermination of the Palestinian people) reside in the government of Israel.

Unfortunately, I do not have faith that they'll suddenly decide to treat with Hamas, especially now. Unless there is a global intervention, I fear wide scale genocide may occur soon.

There is no legitimate argument that what they are doing right now is warranted. Vikings would be like, “Holy shit”. If they had gone after the Israeli military people could make an argument, but no way with this stuff.

[CJD]

(10-10-2023, 01:13 AM)michaelsean Wrote: There is no legitimate argument that what they are doing right now is warranted. Vikings would be like, “Holy shit”. If they had gone after the Israeli military people could make an argument, but no way with this stuff.

Immaterial to my post.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-10-2023, 01:18 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Immaterial to my post.

I mean it was your first sentence.

[CJD]

(10-10-2023, 01:20 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I mean it was your first sentence.

The first half of my first sentence was quite literally put there to prevent responses like yours.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-10-2023, 01:22 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The first half of my first sentence was quite literally put there to prevent responses like yours.

Ok well then that was a big fail. By putting it there you address both sides as equally rational.

[CJD]

(10-10-2023, 01:28 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Ok well then that was a big fail. By putting it there you address both sides as equally rational.

Your reading comprehension could use some work.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-10-2023, 01:34 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Your reading comprehension could use some work.

“Even though this was in no way warranted, the one thing that was never in doubt…”. Simple.

[CJD]

(10-10-2023, 01:40 AM)michaelsean Wrote: “Even though this was in no way warranted, the one thing that was never in doubt…”. Simple.

Sure.

Any comment on the actual post or just felt like re-wording someone's already understandable post?

[guyofthetiger]

There seems to be wars in Israel since the beginning of time. We need to support them and continue to be a blessed nation. Otherwise, we will fail as a nation.

[*pally*]

(10-10-2023, 01:10 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Nobody was discussing that shit in 1944.

The war didn’t end until 1945 so I guess in a manner you are correct. It wasn’t being discussed in 1944.
However, you need to revisit your post WWII history. Of course, people were examining how the war came to be and what conditions led to the wholesale massacre of millions of people while seemingly sane human beings turned their heads in denial.

The whole history of the Middle East is complicated. But we can trace the roots of the current conflicts back to the 1917 Balfour Declaration that stated the support for a Jewish homeland in Palestine, then held by the Ottoman Empire and controlled by the British when the Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the conclusion of WW1.

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-08-2023, 01:58 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote:

Blinken brings up possibility that Hamas, Hezbollah & Iran may be motivated to attack due to potential normalization of relations btw Israel & Saudi Arabia as well as Israel broadening its relationships with other countries. US normalization push began w/ Trump's Abraham accords https://t.co/iFZq2Tn86G

— Margaret Brennan (@margbrennan) October 8, 2023

Forgot to respond to this one, but there it is! That's a long roundabout way to get to the conclusion of "They just hate the Jews". They'll get there eventually though. Maybe.

[basballguy]

(10-09-2023, 09:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's not, though. It is still a very subjective statement based on values. I could make very reasonable and logical arguments that the IDF are terrorists, as well. I could argue that our US intelligence and security services are terrorist organizations. We like to make excuses for our actions and find ways to justify them, but by the letter of the UN resolution, those could be deemed terrorist groups. It's all a judgement call.

So make an argument that IDF is terrorizing people. I’m not saying one is and the other isn’t.

What I am saying is the majority of the world calls these actions terroristic. Now I feel like you do agree this is terrorism (hence why I called it silly) but you would rather lock in on a random comment simply because you enjoy arguing with people.

Or I could be completely wrong. You could possibly think murdering teenagers in cold blood to incite fear isn’t terrorism. I doubt you feel that way though :)

[Dill]

(10-10-2023, 01:10 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Nobody was discussing that shit in 1944.

Such a bad guess. 

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/history-of-the-un/preparatory-years
https://www.britannica.com/event/Dumbarton-Oaks-Conference
https://archive.org/details/internationallaw4445nava/page/248/mode/2up

But misinformation aside, why would you even want to make that point?

[Dill]

(10-09-2023, 08:50 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Do you who does NOT want a two-state system?  The Palestinians!  They want ONE state: Theirs — with Israel destroyed and completely eradicated.  Read their charter if you don’t believe me.

The PLO agreed to recognize Israel's right to exist in 1993 in exchange for a two-state solution, giving up
their claim to the lands they had been driven from. Netanyahu tanked the agreement after Rabin was assissinated
by a Jewish religious zealot.

What Palestinian "charter" are you referring to? Link please.