Has democracy ended in the U.S.?

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 11:36 AM)Beaker Wrote: The entitlement mentality of our current society can help explain the cause of almost every point brought up in this thread so far.

Could you expand on that?

Like do you mean people feel "entitled" to be treated equally and fairly?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-02-2018, 11:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: So basically "Yeah Trump is an awful person who says and does awful things that "sound" like he is on his way to being Hitler but he didn't didn't EVERYTHING Hitler did do stop talking about Nazis."  

It's the lowering of the bar that got Trump this far in his life...

Nah, it's basically that the Nazi comparisons are both stupid and childish.  I can see how you'd try and avoid acknowledging this conclusion though.

[Bengalzona]

(07-02-2018, 11:23 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: None of which indicate collusion between Trump and Russia.

Sure, we have no checks and balances, which is why every item on Trump's agenda has been implemented with ease. 

Not directly between Trump and Russia. I've stated here several times my sentiment that I doubt that anything is ever found that connects Donald Trump directly with Russia (except for witnesses seeing hookers peeing on him). However, folks within his campaign were involved with Russia in shady ways (and possibly still are). Russia was involved with influencing the election.

Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, etc. didn't always get everything they wanted either. But they also had one party rule.

[Beaker]

(07-02-2018, 11:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: Could you expand on that?

Like do you mean people feel "entitled" to be treated equally and fairly?

No, I meant like everyone is only out to get theirs, their feelings are the ones that matter and screw everyone else type mentality.

[Bengalzona]

(07-02-2018, 11:36 AM)Beaker Wrote: The entitlement mentality of our current society can help explain the cause of almost every point brought up in this thread so far.

Yeah. I suppose we aren't entitled to be represented by more than one party in our government. (not a snide comment. Statement of fact)

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 11:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: So basically "Yeah Trump is an awful person who says and does awful things that "sound" like he is on his way to being Hitler but he didn't didn't EVERYTHING Hitler did do stop talking about Nazis."  

It's the lowering of the bar that got Trump this far in his life...

He didn't do EVERYTHING?  You think he came up just short?

[Belsnickel]

(07-02-2018, 11:44 AM)Beaker Wrote: No, I meant like everyone is only out to get theirs, their feelings are the ones that matter and screw everyone else type mentality.

It is the movement away from the idea of the common good in our political arena. Robert Reich has a book about it which is interesting. He lays blame at the feet of the right more than I would, because this has become a tit-for-tat thing, but his argument is that really there has been a decline in concern for the common good over the past 50 or so years. We've seen it with corporations moving from stakeholder concerns to stockholder concerns and maximizing profits, with politicians focusing more on winning than on governing, and then of course with the collusion (where the definite collusion occurs) between the two. Our elected officials and the moneyed interests working together for their own benefits rather than the benefit of the people as a whole.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 11:47 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yeah. I suppose we aren't entitled to be represented by more than one party in our government. (not a snide comment. Statement of fact)

Somehow we survived Obama as President, Reid as majority leader and Pelosi as speaker.

[Bengalzona]

(07-02-2018, 11:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It is the movement away from the idea of the common good in our political arena. Robert Reich has a book about it which is interesting. He lays blame at the feet of the right more than I would, because this has become a tit-for-tat thing, but his argument is that really there has been a decline in concern for the common good over the past 50 or so years. We've seen it with corporations moving from stakeholder concerns to stockholder concerns and maximizing profits, with politicians focusing more on winning than on governing, and then of course with the collusion (where the definite collusion occurs) between the two. Our elected officials and the moneyed interests working together for their own benefits rather than the benefit of the people as a whole.

Seems like something Marx predicted over 150 years ago.

[jj22]

(07-02-2018, 11:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: So basically "Yeah Trump is an awful person who says and does awful things that "sound" like he is on his way to being Hitler but he didn't didn't EVERYTHING Hitler did do stop talking about Nazis."  

It's the lowering of the bar that got Trump this far in his life...

Things that would have never been acceptable under Obama. That's the issue folks are having. All you have to do is ask yourself, how would they react if it was Obama. Suddenly everything Trump is doing now would be cause for impeachment by the same people defending it if it was Obama. It's why people hate politics and you can't really trust Trump supporters.

[Bengalzona]

(07-02-2018, 11:55 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Somehow we survived Obama as President, Reid as majority leader and Pelosi as speaker.

And yet, the SCOTUS still had a conservative majority.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-02-2018, 11:57 AM)jj22 Wrote: Things that would have never been acceptable under Obama. That's the issue folks are having. All you have to do is ask yourself, how would they react if it was Obama. Suddenly everything Trump is doing now would be cause for impeachment by the same people defending it if it was Obama. It's why people hate politics and you can't really trust Trump supporters.

You're right, imagine what would have happened if Obama's administration was putting "kids in cages".

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 11:59 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: And yet, the SCOTUS still had a conservative majority.

The one that OKed the ACA?

[jj22]

(07-02-2018, 11:55 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Somehow we survived Obama as President, Reid as majority leader and Pelosi as speaker.

They never stole seats, they never hid investigations from the American people (like McConnell did). They had open hearings for big ticket items like Obamacare, they never had the behind closed doors deals like you see under Republicans (tax breaks). They stayed within the political norms you don't see any longer under Republicans. They played by the rules. They didn't attack our FBI even as the FBI attacked Hillary Clinton and covered for Trump during the campaign season. They watched as Hillary sat through 16 hours of questioning under oath. They didn't fire anyone, and allowed any investigations to conclude (they showed you how innocent people act).

Say what you want about Dems, but they have shown they can govern unlike Republicans who can't get anything done with the majority unless it's giving tax cuts to billionaires.

[GMDino]

(07-02-2018, 11:41 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Nah, it's basically that the Nazi comparisons are both stupid and childish.  I can see how you'd try and avoid acknowledging this conclusion though.

I also understand why a huge Trump supporter like yourself would not like those comparison being made. 

[Bengalzona]

(07-02-2018, 11:57 AM)jj22 Wrote: Things that would have never been acceptable under Obama. That's the issue folks are having. All you have to do is ask yourself, how would they react if it was Obama. Suddenly everything Trump is doing now would be cause for impeachment by the same people defending it if it was Obama. It's why people hate politics and you can't really trust Trump supporters.

What? Don't you remember the multiple tweets Obama sent every single day telling how great he was, threatening people and other countries, and firing up his base with deliberate falsehoods?

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 12:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: They never stole seats, they never hid investigations from the American people (McConnell). They had open hearings for big ticket items like Obamacare, they never had the behind closed doors deals like you see under Republicans (tax breaks). They stayed within the political norms you don't see any longer under Republicans. They played by the rules. They didn't attack our FBI even as the FBI attacked Hillary Clinton and covered for Trump during the campaign season. They didn't fire anyone (they showed you how innocent people act).

Say what you want about Dems, but they have shown they can govern unlike Republicans who can't get anything done with the majority unless it's giving tax cuts to billionaires.

That's awesome but has nothing to do with what I was replying to. But it does sound like you are advocating for one party rule so your fight is with Zona.

[Bengalzona]

(07-02-2018, 12:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The one that OKed the ACA?

Yup.

It has been conservative-based since the Reagan years.

Some folks are just upset that they didn't just ignore the law and do everything they were "told" to do.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-02-2018, 12:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: I also understand why a huge Trump supporter like yourself would not like those comparison being made. 

So you're really running with the Nazi thing huh?  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-02-2018, 12:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: I also understand why a huge Trump supporter like yourself would not like those comparison being made. 

I always enjoy your penchant for slapping labels on people, very progressive of you.


I'm fine with any comparison or analogy that is based in fact.  For a person who claims to dislike hateful and violent rhetoric you seem to be willfully ignorant to the dangers of labeling your political opponents as Nazis.