Heroin now officially more deadly than guns

[SunsetBengal]

You read that correctly. Heroin is now responsible for more deaths in American than guns. More than twice as deadly, when you combine all opioid and synthetic opioid related deaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/heroin-deaths-surpass-gun-homicides-for-the-first-time-cdc-data-show/?utm_term=.7beeda16ed9b

But yeah, we should end the "war on drugs", not enforce the boarder, etc..

[*bfine32*]

We should outlaw heroin.

[Belsnickel]

(12-09-2016, 09:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You read that correctly. Heroin is now responsible for more deaths in American than guns. More than twice as deadly, when you combine all opioid and synthetic opioid related deaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/heroin-deaths-surpass-gun-homicides-for-the-first-time-cdc-data-show/?utm_term=.7beeda16ed9b

But yeah, we should end the "war on drugs", not enforce the boarder, etc..

Yes, we should end the policies from the war on drugs, though no one has said we should not enforce the border that I am aware of.

Anyway, the policies from the war on drugs seem to not be having the desired effect, so maybe it is time to rethink our approach. Though when it comes to this it is a problem that needs to be addressed on many fronts. Not just our legal system changing to keep people from being afraid to seek help, but the medical field and how they prescribe medications. I am sure there is even more, but that would be a good start.

[GMDino]

(12-09-2016, 11:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes, we should end the policies from the war on drugs, though no one has said we should not enforce the border that I am aware of.

Anyway, the policies from the war on drugs seem to not be having the desired effect, so maybe it is time to rethink our approach. Though when it comes to this it is a problem that needs to be addressed on many fronts. Not just our legal system changing to keep people from being afraid to seek help, but the medical field and how they prescribe medications. I am sure there is even more, but that would be a good start.

Yes Matt...but GUNS!  We must protect our guns!!

At least I'm guessing that's the message here.

[Dill]

(12-09-2016, 09:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You read that correctly.  Heroin is now responsible for more deaths in American than guns.  More than twice as deadly, when you combine all opioid and synthetic opioid related deaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/heroin-deaths-surpass-gun-homicides-for-the-first-time-cdc-data-show/?utm_term=.7beeda16ed9b

But yeah, we should end the "war on drugs", not enforce the boarder, etc..

Looks like the war on drugs is not working.

Rather than continuing to stack offenders up in prison, why not try one of the liberals' policies, like make methodone broadly available and treat addiction as a disease.

If your boarder is using Heroin, just ask him to leave.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(12-10-2016, 12:31 AM)Dill Wrote: Looks like the war on drugs is not working.

Rather than continuing to stack offenders up in prison, why not try one of the liberals' policies, like make methodone broadly available and treat addiction as a disease.

If your boarder is using Heroin, just ask him to leave.

[JustWinBaby]

When you shoot, people die.

Seems like a Westworld episode, to me.

[xxlt]

(12-09-2016, 09:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You read that correctly.  Heroin is now responsible for more deaths in American than guns.  More than twice as deadly, when you combine all opioid and synthetic opioid related deaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/heroin-deaths-surpass-gun-homicides-for-the-first-time-cdc-data-show/?utm_term=.7beeda16ed9b

But yeah, we should end the "war on drugs", not enforce the boarder, etc..

The war on drugs has not prevented this situation, in fact it has enabled it. It is time for a new strategy. Doubling down on failed strategies doesn't work any better in the war on drugs than it did it Vietnam or other actual wars. 

We lost the war on drugs the day we declared it. It is time to declare victory or admit defeat and develop a new strategy going forward. All the evidence points to legalization reducing crime, costs, and deaths related to drug use. But, I am one of those crazy libtards pointing out that facts have a well known liberal bias. Sorry, I can't help it. 

[SunsetBengal]

While I'll admit that there was a bit of tongue-cheek-to my OP, those statistics really do raise some serious questions. As obviously, and well pointed out by some, the "war on drugs" in the form of throwing money at enforcement and punishment is simply not working.

What is the right approach to a problem of this magnitude? Should we just ignore it, and continue to allow all of those addicts to die?

[*bfine32*]

(12-10-2016, 12:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: While I'll admit that there was a bit of tongue-cheek-to my OP, those statistics really do raise some serious questions. As obviously, and well pointed out by some, the "war on drugs" in the form of throwing money at enforcement and punishment is simply not working.

What is the right approach to a problem of this magnitude? Should we just ignore it, and continue to allow all of those addicts to die?

If one believes in survival of the fittest; then yes. but I believe we are a species of compasion.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-10-2016, 01:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If one believes in survival of the fittest; then yes. but I believe we are a species of compasion.

It really is a tough position.  While I don't like to see anyone suffering, I also feel that individuals should be accountable to their actions/life choices.

[CageTheBengal]

Why do we have to pick which deadly problem to focus on?

[Rotobeast]

(12-10-2016, 10:49 AM)xxlt Wrote: The war on drugs has not prevented this situation, in fact it has enabled it. It is time for a new strategy. Doubling down on failed strategies doesn't work any better in the war on drugs than it did it Vietnam or other actual wars. 

We lost the war on drugs the day we declared it. It is time to declare victory or admit defeat and develop a new strategy going forward. All the evidence points to legalization reducing crime, costs, and deaths related to drug use. But, I am one of those crazy libtards pointing out that facts have a well known liberal bias. Sorry, I can't help it. 

I'm with you.
The only fear I have is the possible increase in child neglect.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[*wildcats forever*]

(12-10-2016, 01:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It really is a tough position.  While I don't like to see anyone suffering, I also feel that individuals should be accountable to their actions/life choices.

" People with addiction should not be blamed for suffering from the disease. All people make choices about whether to use substances. However, people do not choose how their brain and body respond to drugs and alcohol, which is why people with addiction cannot control their use while others can. People with addiction can still stop using – it’s just much harder than it is for someone who has not become addicted.

People with addiction are responsible for seeking treatment and maintaining recovery. Often they need the help and support of family, friends and peers to stay in treatment and increase their chances of survival and recovery."
http://www.centeronaddiction.org/addiction/disease-model-addiction

[JustWinBaby]

(12-10-2016, 10:49 AM)xxlt Wrote: All the evidence points to legalization reducing crime, costs, and deaths related to drug use.

I don't disagree, but is it really valid comparisons?  I don't think we can just assume that how things play out in, say Portugal, is how things would play out here.  You have to consider both the culture and geography of the US - Eastern and Western Europe both drink more, and start younger, than the US...yet I believe Eastern Europe has a higher rate of alcoholism but Western Europe does not.

And we have issues with sex, which is comparatively very taboo here.  Or we could talk nation-building - think we've learned Democracy is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

So I'd be extremely cautious in assuming legalization here plays out in a positive way as it did in Portugal.  I favor decriminilzation but stop short of legalization.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-10-2016, 12:31 AM)Dill Wrote: Rather than continuing to stack offenders up in prison

I'm not sure this is really the case for offenders ONLY for drug possession.  People get popped they might spend a few days, even a month, in county.  Marijuana - below "distribution" amounts - is pretty much a slap on the wrist.

I'm certain there are exceptions, but generally speaking I don't think we are "stacking" people in prison on long sentences just because they got caught smoking a joint.  Smoking a joint while committing another crime, sure.

[samhain]

Demand is the problem that will probably never go away. People have been getting high since forever. As long as there's money in it for someone willing to take the risk, the business will continue to flourish despite whatever is done to combat it.

To compound all of this, job loss in manufacturing and in the coal industry have created hotbeds for drug use in places that used to epitomize the All-American lifestyle. I only see this getting worse with the rise of automation and the demise of decent-paying low-skill work. The appeal of getting high and the economic incentive of profiting from the demand will combine for a true epidemic in the next 50 years. It will make what's going on now look like the good old days.

I'm not in the least bit hopeful that this is going to get better. The only thing I can imagine having an impact is increased exposure to horrifying consequences. When it gets to be like cancer and everyone knows a junkie or an OD victim and all the stories that come with them, maybe then people will be turned off enough to avoid it and buck the trend. Gotta hope that the general social will to survive can beat out the desire to get high.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-11-2016, 12:28 AM)samhain Wrote: To compound all of this, job loss in manufacturing and in the coal industry have created hotbeds for drug use in places that used to epitomize the All-American lifestyle.  I only see this getting worse with the rise of automation and the demise of decent-paying low-skill work.  The appeal of getting high and the economic incentive of profiting from the demand will combine for a true epidemic in the next 50 years.  It will make what's going on now look like the good old days.

This deserves it's own topic.  I'm hoping to make it to retirement before I'm obsolete, but it's a reasonably good bet in my lifetime I'll see almost all jobs done by AI and robots.  Energy is the last "limited" resource, and we're close to solving that - I think fusion is a reality inside 50 years.  Water is not a problem when you remove energy costs (just all that salt to dispose of), and that leaves food always struggling to pace population and you have to think we'll solve that, too.

All that idle time and many in their 20's will be in almost perpetual party mode.  It's hard to envision new frontiers creating jobs that won't be done by AI and robots.  Such a world where we don't want for anything or work for anything might create inescapable boredom that people are always trying to defeat.

[samhain]

(12-11-2016, 01:33 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: This deserves it's own topic.  I'm hoping to make it to retirement before I'm obsolete, but it's a reasonably good bet in my lifetime I'll see almost all jobs done by AI and robots.  Energy is the last "limited" resource, and we're close to solving that - I think fusion is a reality inside 50 years.  Water is not a problem when you remove energy costs (just all that salt to dispose of), and that leaves food always struggling to pace population and you have to think we'll solve that, too.

All that idle time and many in their 20's will be in almost perpetual party mode.  It's hard to envision new frontiers creating jobs that won't be done by AI and robots.  Such a world where we don't want for anything or work for anything might create inescapable boredom that people are always trying to defeat.

I really don't get the long game with that sort of thinking.  I mean, if you put 80-90 percent of the world's workforce out of work, who the hell is going to be able to buy anything?  People talk about the jobs disappearing, but what about the overall commerce?  IMO it's the destruction of (practically speaking) the entire consumer market as we know it.  

I did a lot of "experimentation" with drugs in my 20's.  I didn't get married til I was 34.  We didn't have a kid til I was 36.  However, I quit using drugs when I was 27. I wanted a real job and real money to build a life with.  That's a lot easier to do when you're clean.  Without those incentives or the prospects of a future, who knows?  That creates a pretty nihilistic class of young people with virtually no reason to give a shit about anything.

And aside relating to the mining industry: That particular demographic was ripe for the heroin trade IMO.  I went to college with a shitload of Eastern KY kids, and pills were a major thing with a lot of those people.  Mining is a dangerous job that breaks down the body and many in that occupation were already on some kind of opiod painkiller.  Same story as always.  Begins therapeutic, turns into a habit.  Once those pills got scarce, in came the heroin.  Anyone could see it coming.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-11-2016, 01:53 AM)samhain Wrote: I really don't get the long game ... Once those pills got scarce, in came the heroin.  Anyone could see it coming.

Lot of good points.  Very dense topic.  If you want to start a new thread, then please.  I honestly don''t know where to begin on this topic.