Heroin now officially more deadly than guns

[xxlt]

(12-10-2016, 11:06 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I don't disagree, but is it really valid comparisons?  I don't think we can just assume that how things play out in, say Portugal, is how things would play out here.  You have to consider both the culture and geography of the US - Eastern and Western Europe both drink more, and start younger, than the US...yet I believe Eastern Europe has a higher rate of alcoholism but Western Europe does not.

And we have issues with sex, which is comparatively very taboo here.  Or we could talk nation-building - think we've learned Democracy is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

So I'd be extremely cautious in assuming legalization here plays out in a positive way as it did in Portugal.  I favor decriminilzation but stop short of legalization.

It isn't just Portugal. From Colorado to Katmandu and everywhere in between, every place that has legalized anything (including the US that once banned alcohol) has found it works better. Damn those facts and their well known liberal bias. 

[fredtoast]

(12-11-2016, 11:34 AM)xxlt Wrote: It isn't just Portugal. From Colorado to Katmandu and everywhere in between, every place that has legalized anything (including the US that once banned alcohol) has found it works better. Damn those facts and their well known liberal bias. 

Legalizing herion does not address the bigger crime problem.  Even if it is legal addicts will need money to get their fix so some will still be stealing, robbing, and killing other people in order to supply their drug habit.  Addicts are usually not very good at holding down jobs.  Plus they will also be driving under the influence.

The one big benefit to legalization is that it removes some of the stigma of drug use and frees up resources for treatment that would have been used to lock up people for using drugs (not the collateral crime).

So legalization helps some, but it does not fix all the big problems. 



But as long as everyone has access to a fully automatic weapon everything thing else will be fine.

[xxlt]

(12-11-2016, 11:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Legalizing herion does not address the bigger crime problem.  Even if it is legal addicts will need money to get their fix so some will still be stealing, robbing, and killing other people in order to supply their drug habit.  Addicts are usually not very good at holding down jobs.  Plus they will also be driving under the influence.

The one big benefit to legalization is that it removes some of the stigma of drug use and frees up resources for treatment that would have been used to lock up people for using drugs (not the collateral crime).

So legalization helps some, but it does not fix all the big problems. 



But as long as everyone has access to a fully automatic weapon everything thing else will be fine.

I didn't say it was a pancake (shout out to everyone who gets that reference). I said legalization reduces crime, cost, and death. It appears you would agree. Improved public policy can further reduce all three, as you imply. 

[JustWinBaby]

(12-11-2016, 11:34 AM)xxlt Wrote: It isn't just Portugal. From Colorado to Katmandu and everywhere in between, every place that has legalized anything (including the US that once banned alcohol) has found it works better. Damn those facts and their well known liberal bias. 

I don't know that is true.  There's no evidence of an increase in crime related to marijuana in CO, but there doesn't appear to be evidence of a decrease, either. Fact is before and after marijuana continues to make up a very small percentage of crime in Denver (according to articles I read in the Denver Post and a few other newspapers).

And I don't think most people have an issue or objection to marijuana.  But if we're talking other drugs, I'm not sure "no change" in crime, which is potentially an optimistic scenario, justifies the obvious increase in addiction that will result.  Sure, you may remove the stigma and make it easier to get treatment, but the fact is a large number of alcoholics don't seek or take to treatment.

If you merely decriminalize it, I think you get a lot of the benefits with significantly less risk than outright legalization.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-09-2016, 11:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes Matt...but GUNS!  We must protect our guns!!

At least I'm guessing that's the message here.

The message is that prohibition doesn't work, for anything.  So yeah, guns too, as is illustrated daily.