High School Boys Are Trending Conservative

[hollodero]

(07-31-2023, 09:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You both are missing the actual key point.  That being that teenagers, especially boys, will rebel against what is considered the "establishment" when they are growing up.  Right now that is the left and their ideology.  Much like the children of the Reagan years, myself included, rejected the yuppie conservative values and the yuppies and that generation rejected the hippie protest culture.  And before that the hippie era was rejecting the post war Leave it to Beaver conservatism of the 50's.  It's not that hard to discern once you look for it.  Rogan and Tate are not causes, they are anchors for what would already be happening.  They aren't popular because they caused a movement, they're popular because the current movement gravitated towards them.

This is why I always laugh at "X" party is dead arguments, because this cycle consistently repeats itself.

I think there's a lot to that.

I do also think that politically speaking, this pendulum constantly swinging back and forth is a corset and anything but a good thing. Both parties know they can pretty much do whatever they want, don't have to bother much, the momentum comes back to them automatically anyway. To me it seems that is among the core problems.

If only young people would see both parties as establishment and rebel against that.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2023, 01:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: I think there's a lot to that.

I do also think that politically speaking, this pendulum constantly swinging back and forth is a corset and anything but a good thing. Both parties know they can pretty much do whatever they want, don't have to bother much, the momentum comes back to them automatically anyway. To me it seems that is among the core problems.

If only young people would see both parties as establishment and rebel against that.

The last point was always me when I was younger.  I was very anti-establishment and very much an iconoclast.  It's odd seeing the late teen, early twenties kid's now, because so many of them are slavishly loyal to the Democratic party.  I would hardly expect them to be all in on the GOP, but to them the Dems can literally do nothing wrong.  I am, of course, making a generalization, but this attitude seems rather prevalent.  

[Dill]

(07-31-2023, 08:53 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I had a very similar thought when I was writing that response. I wasn't thinking of Rogan, but someone like Andrew Tate. I would be very interested to see fleshed out reasons for young voters party affiliations. Why they identify one particular way to see what factors are in play. 

Tate is this guy, right?

Andrew Tate Charged with Rape and Human Trafficking
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65959097

Seems like a man's man to me. 

Some men are tired of equality or never bought in to feminism; HS boys may be looking for more traditional role models.

[CJD]

(08-01-2023, 01:12 PM)Dill Wrote: Tate is this guy, right?

Andrew Tate Charged with Rape and Human Trafficking
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65959097

Seems like a man's man to me. 

Some men are tired of equality or never bought in to feminism; HS boys may be looking for more traditional role models.

The beauty of being a conservative figurehead is that their victim complex allows them to claim any legal action taken against them is merely a mode of "silencing them" from "speaking the truth."

[*pally*]

Too many teenage boys see the world as absolutes instead of understanding that much of the world and society don't fit nicely into predetermined boxes

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2023, 01:19 PM)pally Wrote: Too many teenage boys see the world as absolutes instead of understanding that much of the world and society don't fit nicely into predetermined boxes

Far too many adults have the exact same problem.

[Dill]

(08-01-2023, 12:55 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Social Media is the one thing that I am "old" about haha. I generally view technology and advancements like this to be universally beneficial because of the added avenues of communication and creativity that they allow for...

...but holy shit are they also an incredibly effective means of distributing propaganda haha.

I think we, as a society, will adjust over time, especially as parents gain more understanding about the risks, but this current generation seems to be the guinea pig that may be scarred by it in the process.

They also break down attention span and the practice of "deep reading."  

And that is the enemy of critical thinking, which is much diminished where soundbites replace developed argument.

There is a ton of information/study on this subject.

https://www.universityaffairs.ca/opinion/in-my-opinion/what-happens-when-we-lose-deep-reading/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CDeep%20reading%E2%80%9D%2C%20what%20before,from%20what%20they've%20read.

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-deep-reading-1690373

The Importance of Deep Reading
https://www.ascd.org/el/articles/the-importance-of-deep-reading

The digital learner seems particularly well-suited for a life of activity and a life of enjoyment. The emphases of digital media on efficient, massive information processing; flexible multitasking; quick and interactive modes of communication; and seemingly endless forms of digitally based entertainment encourage such lives. These emphases, however, can be less suited for the slower, more time-consuming cognitive processes that are vital for contemplative life and that are at the heart of what we call deep reading.

By deep reading, we mean the array of sophisticated processes that propel comprehension and that include inferential and deductive reasoning, analogical skills, critical analysis, reflection, and insight. The expert reader needs milliseconds to execute these processes; the young brain needs years to develop them. Both of these pivotal dimensions of time are potentially endangered by the digital culture's pervasive emphases on immediacy, information loading, and a media-driven cognitive set that embraces speed and can discourage deliberation in both our reading and our thinking.

Such a perspective presents a Gordian knot of cognitive advantages and challenges for the present and upcoming generations, which, if unaddressed, could affect the already diminishing role of contemplation in our society. Moreover, these emphases of the digital culture may radically change how we learn to read and acquire information. And they may well change how we think.

[Dill]

(08-01-2023, 01:19 PM)pally Wrote: Too many teenage boys see the world as absolutes instead of understanding that much of the world and society don't fit nicely into predetermined boxes

That's a normal developmental stage. Girls too. Used to be called "black and white thinking" back in the 70s-80s.

Doesn't change much though without challenge and guidance. 

Complicating that thinking was one explicit goal of education before it became all about job training.

The Deep Reading I mentioned above was helpful in challenging/comlplicating. It develops the ability to follow extended
arguments and integrate evidence into nuanced logical frameworks. So I'm thinking that absence of that, as young
people grow up surfing the net and responding to bells and whistles and click bait soundbites, may 
slow or block that development. Everything becomes just "opinion" then. Developed arguments are boring.

There is a political dimension to this too, as not all adults want children to move beyond the B/W stage.

*Now it seems mostly used to describe a persistent and limiting emotional orientation rather than 
a developmental stage.

[*pally*]

(08-01-2023, 01:38 PM)Dill Wrote: That's a normal developmental stage. Girls too. Used to be called "black and white thinking" back in the 70s-80s.

Doesn't change much though without challenge and guidance. 

Complicating that thinking was one explicit goal of education before it became all about job training.

The Deep Reading I mentioned above was helpful in challenging/comlplicating. It develops the ability to follow extended
arguments and integrate evidence into nuanced logical frameworks. So I'm thinking that absence of that, as young
people grow up surfing the net and responding to bells and whistles and click bait soundbites, may 
slow or block that development. Everything becomes just "opinion" then. Developed arguments are boring.

There is a political dimension to this too, as not all adults want children to move beyond the B/W stage.

*Now it seems mostly used to describe a persistent and limiting emotional orientation rather than 
a developmental stage.

Conservatives oppose the development of those critical thinking skills that challenging one's position provide

[Dill]

(08-01-2023, 01:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The beauty of being a conservative figurehead is that their victim complex allows them to claim any legal action taken against them is merely a mode of "silencing them" from "speaking the truth."

Whaaa . . . ?  Now who does that, C-dog? 

Sounds like you hate free speech!

[Dill]

(08-01-2023, 01:47 PM)pally Wrote: Conservatives oppose the development of those critical thinking skills that challenging one's position provide

They used to not so much. Though that sort of thing was reserved for "higher" higher ed. where (before 1965)
the best universities could be trusted to do that safely. (E.g., thinking of Allan Bloom here.) 

But those traditional conservatives have been undermined by the internet soundbite culture too. No George Wills
on Fox news anymore, and they were never on Newsmax or OANN. 

Seems to me now that what passes for conservatism has certainly lost that deference to learning that was still there when
Buckley jr. was guiding the National Review.  That's why people calling themselves "conservatives" seem to be leading
all these astroturf school protests but appear quite uniformed about the history of public education or those 
critical thinking skills you mention. You can't get them by preserving parents religious/gender views from question.
Or without accurate and challenging history.

Some contemporary conservative politicians seem to be edging more openly towards the Alt-right, though they huffily protest
that cannot be true. I've come to prefer "the right" as a designation for most of these groups, reserving "conservative"
for people who actually know something of the history of that tradition and directly engage it.  By this measure
Trump is not a conservative, but is certainly a right wing politician.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2023, 01:47 PM)pally Wrote: Conservatives oppose the development of those critical thinking skills that challenging one's position provide

Of course they do.  Anyone who doesn't think exactly like you is guilty of this.  

[Dill]

(08-01-2023, 02:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: pally Wrote:[url=http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-High-School-Boys-Are-Trending-Conservative?pid=1374215#pid1374215][/url]Conservatives oppose the development of those critical thinking skills that challenging one's position provide

Of course they do.  Anyone who doesn't think exactly like you is guilty of this.  

Sounds like people who advance critical thinking skills are the REAL black/white thinkers.

That's why they promote "challenging one's position"?

Or wait, maybe there are more than two options here. 

Could there be people who agree critical thinking skills should be taught, but DON'T think exactly like Pally? 

And she knew this from the get go?

Yow! Black white purple green red--too many boxes there now. 

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2023, 01:26 AM)pally Wrote: Just goes to show you know nothing about women.  Women can and do care about more than the abortion question.

Healthcare
Education
Guns
Wage gap
Social safety net
Domestic violence
Equal right amendment
Equal opportunity
Climate change
Body autonomy-more than abortion
Crime
Taxes
Federal spending
Hate/division/racism/extremism
Justice system

Just goes to show that I know what I'm talking about and you post empty rhetoric and personal attacks.

What has Biden done for healthcare? Obamacare was a failure, so why would they vote for someone to achieve something that even his boss couldn't do? What were Biden's 
Wage gap? Show me where a woman is paid less for the same work.
Guns? More woman I know own guns than men. Why would women want to take away their protection against robbers and rapists?
Republicans don't want to abolish social security nets but they want to make them more efficient and stop people from abusing them.
Domestic violence? You think Republicans don't care about domestic violence?
Crime? Which party wants lawless open borders and wants to defund the police?
Republicans support the Equal Rights Amendment. Equal opportunity is the same thing. You're just posting things thinking I'm too stupid or will just look at the list and accept it.
How big of an issue is climate change to female voters? Like everything else, it's a scare tactic used by Dems.
What other body autonomy is an issue besides for abortion?
Democrats want higher taxes and a bigger government, so Democratic women like paying higher taxes?
Women want more federal spending?
Everyone wants to end hate and racism.
Justice system is crime. Once again, you're just posting a long list to make it sound complete but most are wrong.

[*Nately120*]

(07-31-2023, 09:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You both are missing the actual key point.  That being that teenagers, especially boys, will rebel against what is considered the "establishment" when they are growing up.  Right now that is the left and their ideology.  Much like the children of the Reagan years, myself included, rejected the yuppie conservative values and the yuppies and that generation rejected the hippie protest culture.  And before that the hippie era was rejecting the post war Leave it to Beaver conservatism of the 50's.  It's not that hard to discern once you look for it.  Rogan and Tate are not causes, they are anchors for what would already be happening.  They aren't popular because they caused a movement, they're popular because the current movement gravitated towards them.

This is why I always laugh at "X" party is dead arguments, because this cycle consistently repeats itself.

Flordia is going to be the wokest place on earth eventually.

All jokes aside, I recall being a kid/teen when Jerry Falwell was talking about that telletubby being gay and I told my father that Jerry Falwell made a good point and he just said "If you think Jerry Fallwell made a good point, I've failed you as a father."

[Dill]

(08-01-2023, 03:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How big of an issue is climate change to female voters? Like everything else, it's a scare tactic used by Dems.

Climate change is not a real threat? 

Republicans are against recognizing CC as a threat, then? 

What will the Dems gain if Republicans like you give in to the scare? 

You have a plan for protecting social security AND the planet,

or just the former? 

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2023, 07:00 PM)Dill Wrote: Climate change is not a real threat? 

Republicans are against recognizing CC as a threat, then? 

What will the Dems gain if Republicans like you give in to the scare? 

Climate change is an eventual threat but it's not like the end of the world is coming, like Dems like to scare people into thinking.

They'd get a moral victory if Republicans like me give in and act like they cured cancer.

It's a typical non-issue that they like to ***** and complain about, which is what they do best.

[*Nately120*]

(08-01-2023, 07:05 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Climate change is an eventual threat but it's not like the end of the world is coming, like Dems like to scare people into thinking.

They'd get a moral victory if Republicans like me give in and act like they cured cancer.

It's a typical non-issue that they like to ***** and complain about, which is what they do best.

Ida know, if anyone is supposed to care about the world we leave for our children and our children's children, I'd assume it would be women.  They seems like they care about that kind of crap.

[Belsnickel]

(08-01-2023, 07:05 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Climate change is an eventual threat but it's not like the end of the world is coming, like Dems like to scare people into thinking.

They'd get a moral victory if Republicans like me give in and act like they cured cancer.

It's a typical non-issue that they like to ***** and complain about, which is what they do best.

Climate change is a serious concern in the immediate term. Rising sea levels cause coastal flooding. There are areas experiencing shortened growing seasons thanks to altered weather patterns affecting the global food supply. Larger burdens on water sources such as the Colorado River that are not being replenished enough from snow pack during the winter. Higher numbers of forest fires thanks to longer seasons without rain. These are all things happening right now, not eventually. They are all impacting our citizens this very moment and costing our government billions of dollars.

[*Nately120*]

(08-01-2023, 07:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Climate change is a serious concern in the immediate term. Rising sea levels cause coastal flooding. There are areas experiencing shortened growing seasons thanks to altered weather patterns affecting the global food supply. Larger burdens on water sources such as the Colorado River that are not being replenished enough from snow pack during the winter. Higher numbers of forest fires thanks to longer seasons without rain. These are all things happening right now, not eventually. They are all impacting our citizens this very moment and costing our government billions of dollars.

Meh, why make even the most subtle sacrifice to protect and care for this country?  It's not like people fought and died for it, or anything.