High School Boys Are Trending Conservative

[*Nately120*]

(08-01-2023, 09:04 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote:

Time is a flat circle.

Without googling it, I'd wager many people have written "Woud Alex P Keaton be MAGA?" articles.  I'm not sure I'd compare a dude in high school wearing a suit and loving Regan to a modern day conservative teen male who lives to sniff Andrew Tate's chair, though.

I never really watched Family Ties, though.  For all I know Alex spent most of his time arguing with Michael Gross about what really constitutes sexual assault and why sex trafficking benefits impoverished women.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2023, 10:00 PM)pally Wrote: Well, watching how various red states are revising their education standards to remove anything that might be considered controversial or hurt someone's feelings, it becomes easy to draw that conclusion.  One cannot develop critical thinking skills if nothing critical or controversial is ever presented.   Critical thinking requires challenges to paradigms.  

You literally said conservatives, as a whole, are against critical thinking.  You said it with complete sincerity (unless you were lying or displaying a penchant for humor or wit heretofore unknown in your posts).  That you don't realize that you are exactly what you despise is both amusing and disconcerting.

[*Nately120*]

(08-01-2023, 10:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You literally said conservatives, as a whole, are against critical thinking.  You said it with complete sincerity (unless you were lying or displaying a penchant for humor or wit heretofore unknown in your posts).  How you don't realize that you are exactly what you despise is both amusing and disconcerting.

I can attest that I know multiple conservatives who told me they were switching to the libertarian party when Trump got the nomination. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2023, 10:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can attest that I know multiple conservatives who told me they were switching to the libertarian party when Trump got the nomination. 

My father considers himself conservative and he despises Trump.  The man is brilliant (or rather was, as senility is eating away at that now), has two masters degrees and was universally loved by the people who worked for him, both in the military and at McDonnell Douglas/Boeing.  Comments like pally's disgust me, as they propagate the exact kind of binary thinking and hatred that characterizes this country right now.  There are some brilliant conservative people and there are some brilliant liberal people.  There are equal numbers of complete effing numbskulls on both sides.  Please believe that I can attest to the number of idiot liberals.  The idea that only one side cares about critical thinking should be universally condemned.  For some reason several posters on here who claim to care about intellectual arguments won't do so.  Curious indeed.

You're certainly not included in that though, you little scamp.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2023, 09:21 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I didn't ask you for anything. You presented a nonsensical argument:

If all the women complaining about that are carpooling and doing other things to limit their carbon emissions, then they care, but I don't see women too big doing that or trying to get others to do it, so it's just an issue they use to build a case for their real complaint, which is abortion.

Just sounds like finding an issue to ***** about.

Women - just like men - can and do demonstrate concern for the climate in a wide variety of ways.

How's that nonsensical? If woman cared about the issue, they'd act upon it and do their part.

How do all these Democratic woman show concern for the climate? That would be a very easy and probably the best way to fight climate change, so why don't they do it if it's a big enough issue to vote based off of it?

(08-01-2023, 09:53 PM)pally Wrote: And you have just proven my point that you know nothing about what women think.  

Ha!

You just keep tossing out bullshit and personal attacks with no substance.

[*Nately120*]

(08-01-2023, 10:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: My father considers himself conservative and he despises Trump.  The man is brilliant (or rather was, as senility is eating away at that now), has two masters degrees and was universally loved by the people who worked for him, both in the military and at McDonnell Douglas/Boeing.  Comments like pally's disgust me, as they propagate the exact kind of binary thinking and hatred that characterizes this country right now.  There are some brilliant conservative people and there are some brilliant liberal people.  There are equal numbers of complete effing numbskulls on both sides.  Please believe that I can attest to the number of idiot liberals.  The idea that only one side cares about critical thinking should be universally condemned.  For some reason several posters on here who claim to care about intellectual arguments won't do so.  Curious indeed.

You're certainly not included in that though, you little scamp.

I'm sure a lot of conservatives despise Trump, but if they critically think themselves into bed with the devil...well...I mean, I guess critical thinking is a style of thinking, it doesn't necessarily mean you'll make wise decisions. 

In all fairness, a whole lotta critical thinking went into the rise of Trump getting a stranglehold upon one of our two major parties.  Trump didn't think himself into this position, a lot of smarty pantses had to prop him up.  Look at Fox News, something I always point out is that it appeals to the working class stiff, but the narratives are being delivered by a bunch of ivy league educated eggheads who work in Manhattan and act like they've got nothing on REAL people who have GEDs and live in Whitesville Mississippi.

In a way the current GOP is fascinating in the sense that it is this bizarre and accidental alliance between the most cunning and critical of thinkers and the masses who wouldn't admit to thinking, lest it make them sound like kiddy diddlers.



tl;dr - there are ways to admit that some conservatives think critically, but still spin it as a none too flattering trait IF one were to have such an agenda.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-01-2023, 10:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm sure a lot of conservatives despise Trump, but if they critically think themselves into bed with the devil...well...I mean, I guess critical thinking is a style of thinking, it doesn't necessarily mean you'll make wise decisions. 

In all fairness, a whole lotta critical thinking went into the rise of Trump getting a stranglehold upon one of our two major parties.  Trump didn't think himself into this position, a lot of smarty pantses had to prop him up.  Look at Fox News, something I always point out is that it appeals to the working class stiff, but the narratives are being delivered by a bunch of ivy league educated eggheads who work in Manhattan and act like they've got nothing on REAL people who have GEDs and live in Whitesville Mississippi.

In a way the current GOP is fascinating in the sense that it is this bizarre and accidental alliance between the most cunning and critical of thinkers and the masses who wouldn't admit to thinking, lest it make them sound like kiddy diddlers.



tl;dr - there are ways to admit that some conservatives think critically, but still spin it as a none too flattering trait IF one were to have such an agenda.

While I appreciate many of your points, this presupposes that being conservative is an automatic acceptance of Trump as the candidate or POTUS.  Honestly, even still looking back at it I'll take the four years of Trump over a Hillary presidency and three liberal justices.  I can only imagine the potentially irreversible damage a heavily liberal court would inflict in today's climate.  That said, I can still not be a fan of his presidency or his subsequent actions,  

I don't think either ideology has a stranglehold on good ideas.  If they did they'd be in power consistently.  Both are a mix of good and bad ideas, and they take turns being the dumber of the two.  To claim either has a monopoly on good ideas or "critical thinking" betrays an utter lack of said ability in oneself.  Unfortunately, on this board only one side will tend to get called out for this sin, even by those who claim to be the arbiters of intellectual arguments.

[*pally*]

(08-01-2023, 10:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You literally said conservatives, as a whole, are against critical thinking.  You said it with complete sincerity (unless you were lying or displaying a penchant for humor or wit heretofore unknown in your posts).  That you don't realize that you are exactly what you despise is both amusing and disconcerting.

I see conservative political and religious leaders thriving because they count in their conservative followers never engaging their brains and blindly following them. And it appears to be working for the most part. Does it mean that each and every person who claims to be conservative lacks the ability to critical think…no. It means the people conservatives put in charge want their followers to lack that ability

[*pally*]

(08-01-2023, 10:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How's that nonsensical? If woman cared about the issue, they'd act upon it and do their part.

How do all these Democratic woman show concern for the climate? That would be a very easy and probably the best way to fight climate change, so why don't they do it if it's a big enough issue to vote based off of it?

Ha!

You just keep tossing out bullshit and personal attacks with no substance.

Oh I’m sorry…you of course know more about what women think than I do. I’ll be quiet now so you can keep mansplaining to this Democratic woman that the only subject I care about is abortion

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-02-2023, 01:42 AM)pally Wrote: I see conservative political and religious leaders thriving because they count in their conservative followers never engaging their brains and blindly following them.  And it appears to be working for the most part.  Does it mean that each and every person who claims to be conservative lacks the ability to critical think…no.  It means the people conservatives put in charge want their followers to lack that ability

It'd be far easier if you would just say that you erred in over generalizing about conservatives and that you were wrong for doing so.  Instead you gave us a a dissembling excuse for your overly broad, and polarizing, generalization.  Maybe own your error instead of making excuses for it?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-02-2023, 01:52 AM)pally Wrote: Oh I’m sorry…you of course know more about what women think than I do.  I’ll be quiet now so you can keep mansplaining to this Democratic woman that the only subject I care about is abortion

You don't see the irony in your, in this case rightfully, complaining about someone generalizing about a group of people?  

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-02-2023, 01:57 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You don't see the irony in your, in this case rightfully, complaining about someone generalizing about a group of people?  

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/republican-challengers-struggle-in-primary-polls-despite-trumps-legal-troubles

The generalizations are warranted. The leading candidate for the party is a traitor.

[Belsnickel]

Honestly, we need to stop confusing conservatism with the modern day GOP. What the GOP is currently, under the MAGA banner, is not conservatism.

[GMDino]

(08-02-2023, 07:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Honestly, we need to stop confusing conservatism with the modern day GOP. What the GOP is currently, under the MAGA banner, is not conservatism.

This I agree with.

A lot (all?) of MAGA are conservative but not all conservatives are MAGA.

Trump's cult, and the republicans that enable him are not true conservatives...despite what they tell you. And that group sucks all the air out of the room when the adults try to talk.

[BFritz21]

(08-02-2023, 01:52 AM)pally Wrote: Oh I’m sorry…you of course know more about what women think than I do.  I’ll be quiet now so you can keep mansplaining to this Democratic woman that the only subject I care about is abortion

More ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the points of my original points.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-02-2023, 02:30 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/republican-challengers-struggle-in-primary-polls-despite-trumps-legal-troubles

The generalizations are warranted. The leading candidate for the party is a traitor.

Sure it is, because you say so.  As Bel rightfully points out not all conservatives vote GOP.  Not all GOP voters vote Trump.  Your generalizations, and your doubling down on it, are infantile.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Still waiting on our resident pedant to call out the leftists in this thread making broad generalization about millions of people. I won't hold my breath.

[hollodero]

(08-01-2023, 11:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: While I appreciate many of your points, this presupposes that being conservative is an automatic acceptance of Trump as the candidate or POTUS.  Honestly, even still looking back at it I'll take the four years of Trump over a Hillary presidency and three liberal justices.  I can only imagine the potentially irreversible damage a heavily liberal court would inflict in today's climate.

I'll bite. What would be the most damaging things that would have happened that beat all the actual Trump deeds?

(08-01-2023, 11:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think either ideology has a stranglehold on good ideas.  If they did they'd be in power consistently.

I never ever - well, that's not true, but I put it like that anyway - I never ever disagreed with you more. Imho that is the whole fundamental problem, that this is not true. The parties split power 50/50, overall, Congress and presidency combined. It's a pendulum. Now if one party was brilliant and the other would consist of pure idiots, the split would still be 50/50. There's around 45% voters that vote the same party regardless, and the deciding swing voters do just that, always swing to the party in opposition becaouse those in power are always unpopular after some time. Except presidents maybe, they get reelected often, but after their two terms it's usually the other party's turn as well and it has little to nothing to do with good or bad ideas. Only the pendulum. And imho, both parties figured out as much at this point, that it doesn't really matter.

(08-01-2023, 11:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Unfortunately, on this board only one side will tend to get called out for this sin, even by those who claim to be the arbiters of intellectual arguments.

I agree with you on the issue in this thread. Nope, it's not fair to call conservatives opposed to critical thinking. Then again, when confronted with one of those many many conservatives that say things like "liberal women only care about abortion or else they'd be conservatives, stupid liberal women", then I understand angry reactions. Especially since no conservative leaning person calls that out either. Or all the comments about only stupid people would vote for Biden, or that most conservatives vote with their brains and not on their emotions like iliberal voters, all things reecently not being called out by other conservatives in other threads. This calling out business gets tiresome. Even more so since Americans seem to be unable to ever admit that they'd been wrong, ever. That of course also is a broad and unfair generalization, but then again, it's mostly true.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-02-2023, 11:55 AM)hollodero Wrote: I'll bite. What would be the most damaging things that would have happened that beat all the actual Trump deeds?

For the sake of making this easily digestible I'll confine my examples to the 1st and 2nd amendment, both of which would be under grave danger with a left leaning court in today's climate.

We already have lawmakers in Michigan trying to make it a crime to misgender someone if doing so makes them "feel threatened".  Of course feeling threatened is a rather nebulous criteria and what would make one person feel threatened would not phase another.

https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-pronoun-bill-probably-unconstitutional-first-amendment-1811232

"The bill would make it a hate crime to cause someone to "feel terrorized, frightened, or threatened" with words—including by deliberately misgendering them."

This is so blatantly unconstitutional that anyone who voted for it should be immediately removed from office.  The problem is I don't think a leftist judge would necessarily strike it down, nor would a SCOTUS with three more left leaning justices.  Why do I think that?  Because poll after poll shows that the modern left thinks "hate speech" is violence and should be illegal.

https://www.cato.org/survey-reports/state-free-speech-tolerance-america#understanding-attitudes-toward-free-speech

Literally two thirds of Democratic voters responded this way, with both independent and Republican voters being majority opposed (unfortunately not by very much with independents).  We again run into a major issue, who gets to determine what is "hate speech"?    If you ask ten different people you'd likely get ten different answers.  I've expressed my extreme discomfort with laws in Europe that criminalize speech.  No one should lose their freedom for expressing their opinion, no matter how odious that opinion might be.  Outside of direct incitement to violence or direct threats speech should in no way ever be criminalized.  A leftist SCOTUS would not be a bulwark against this happening here.

As for the 2nd, I don't think I need to go into much detail.  Even with a conservative SCOTUS and a black and white ruling on this matter states continue to enact laws that are blatantly unconstitutional as described in both the Heller and Bruen decision.  With a leftist court the 2nd amendment would be dust and confiscation would be in the near future.

I understand as a European neither of these things seem very important, and I don't say that as an insult to you at all.  But you're already accustomed to extreme limits on both these issues.  To me both of these rights are sacrosanct and anyone willing to give either up are either ignorant, uninformed or evil.  Or some combination of the three.

Quote:I never ever - well, that's not true, but I put it like that anyway - I never ever disagreed with you more. Imho that is the whole fundamental problem, that this is not true. The parties split power 50/50, overall, Congress and presidency combined. It's a pendulum. Now if one party was brilliant and the other would consist of pure idiots, the split would still be 50/50. There's around 45% voters that vote the same party regardless, and the deciding swing voters do just that, always swing to the party in opposition becaouse those in power are always unpopular after some time. Except presidents maybe, they get reelected often, but after their two terms it's usually the other party's turn as well and it has little to nothing to do with good or bad ideas. Only the pendulum. And imho, both parties figured out as much at this point, that it doesn't really matter.

You're confusing the political parties with conservative or (actual) liberal ideals.  Neither party is a very good representative of either ideology.  What I am saying is that extreme liberalism is just as flawed as extreme conservatism.  Both sides have good ideas and bad, and society tends to do best when both are represented.  Of course what constitutes both also changes with time, yesterdays liberal position can be tomorrow's conservative one, but neither side has a monopoly on good, or bad, ideas.  Unless you're trying to say that every position of the Democratic party is good and every position of the GOP is bad, which I'd be very surprised if you did, then I don't think you actually disagree with me to the extent you stated here.

Quote:I agree with you on the issue in this thread. Nope, it's not fair to call conservatives opposed to critical thinking. Then again, when confronted with one of those many many conservatives that say things like "liberal women only care about abortion or else they'd be conservatives, stupid liberal women", then I understand angry reactions. Especially since no conservative leaning person calls that out either. Or all the comments about only stupid people would vote for Biden, or that most conservatives vote with their brains and not on their emotions like iliberal voters, all things reecently not being called out by other conservatives in other threads. This calling out business gets tiresome. Even more so since Americans seem to be unable to ever admit that they'd been wrong, ever. That of course also is a broad and unfair generalization, but then again, it's mostly true.

Oh both sides are guilty of this to be sure.  Except only one side gets routinely castigated for it on this board.  I'm fine with the behavior being addressed, just be consistent about it.  Someone who calls other posters "sheep" or brainwashed" only to engage in the exact same behavior is someone who deserves to be confronted about their hypocrisy.  As for not being able to admit their wrong, I don't think that's an issue confined to Americans.  I've found most adults lack this ability, regardless of nationality.

[Eraserhead]

(08-02-2023, 01:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It'd be far easier if you would just say that you erred in over generalizing about conservatives and that you were wrong for doing so.  Instead you gave us a a dissembling excuse for your overly broad, and polarizing, generalization.  Maybe own your error instead of making excuses for it?